EOS 5D Mark III Replacement Talk [CR2]

[Orangutan]

the fact that Canon suffered double digit falling DSLR sales in 2012/13 and again in 2013/14.

How did that compare to their competitors?

Blank... if you read my post all the way it continues: "I do not know how Canon is doing measured on market share".

Then why did you write "I expect Canon's board members are seriously unhappy with the fact that Canon suffered double digit falling DSLR sales in 2012/13 and again in 2013/14?" That is an utterly meaningless (even deceptive) statement without comparison to other vendors. If I'm on Canon's board and our DSLR sales drop 15%, but Nikon's and Sony's drop 25% then I'm probably satisfied that the company is doing well.

May I suggest some light reading? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_cycle

 

[PureClassA]

"Olympus has had IBIS for 10 years.... The Canon IS works much better... but then again, it is very hard to design IBIS that works for wide angle and telephoto lenses, while a lens specific design is tailor made for the chunk of glass you are dealing with." - Don Haines


Never thought of it that way, but that makes total sense. I am terribly intrigued by the Sony Alphas myself, but only the a7S for the perfect video sensor that with amazing high ISO (pretty useful for video) in a small form body. That said I'm waiting for the A7S2 because of the IBIS and hopefully fix to the rolling shutter issue. For video it's really nice to be able to take high quality primes like a 35 or 50mm and get IS from the body. Some of the body rigs for steady cam work are just obscenely expensive and I can't wait to see how much vibration correction can be done with a small handheld rig in a cinema body like the A7S.

As for photography itself IS is wonderful but less important a consideration for me in lens selection unless it's a long tele. I guess it depends on what you're doing with the camera

 

[Don Haines]

This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc...
Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)

I am 53 years old now, and waiting a decade for Canon to decide that it is a time to upgrade sensor is just unacceptable for me. That's why I am enjoying my beloved bit awkward A7r for some time now and pushing the envelopes the way I could never push with any of the current Canon cameras...
I hope this makes some sense to at least some of you

Lets hope that Canon once again is capable of philosophy that brought to life 5D Classic once upon a time...
Thank you.

I am sure that they already know this...

The thing is, nobody is the best at everything....
Canon makes some of the best lenses...
Nikon has lenses that are better than the equivalent Canon lens...
Olympus has the best entry level user interface...
Canon has the best high-end user interface....
Sony/Nikon has the best sensors at low ISO....
Canon has the best sensors at high ISO....
Nikon makes the best landscape and studio camera...
Canon makes the best wedding and action camera...
Sony makes the best low light camera....
Panasonic beats them all for video (at least on sub $10,000 cameras)...
and the iPhone is the king of instant photography

To pick one aspect of a system for one use and to think that all should worship it is lunacy...

 

[Don Haines]

"Olympus has had IBIS for 10 years.... The Canon IS works much better... but then again, it is very hard to design IBIS that works for wide angle and telephoto lenses, while a lens specific design is tailor made for the chunk of glass you are dealing with." - Don Haines


Never thought of it that way, but that makes total sense. I am terribly intrigued by the Sony Alphas myself, but only the a7S for the perfect video sensor that with amazing high ISO (pretty useful for video) in a small form body. That said I'm waiting for the A7S2 because of the IBIS and hopefully fix to the rolling shutter issue. For video it's really nice to be able to take high quality primes like a 35 or 50mm and get IS from the body. Some of the body rigs for steady cam work are just obscenely expensive and I can't wait to see how much vibration correction can be done with a small handheld rig in a cinema body like the A7S.

As for photography itself IS is wonderful but less important a consideration for me in lens selection unless it's a long tele. I guess it depends on what you're doing with the camera

To be fair, IBIS works great on shorter focal lengths..... it's the long ones where it has trouble.. if you have a 400 or 600mm lens on the camera, a tiny bit of shake becomes too much for the IBIS to handle. I can't speak for the A7S (never tried it) but the latest Oly's are surprisingly good. My biggest complaint about them is that they are too small. Too small means harder to operate controls and at least for me, hard to hold well or steady.

On a somewhat related topic, I think the 7D2 is using sensor shifting as well as IS to stabilize video. The smoothness and delay when you pan seems to indicate it.... does anyone know for sure if they do?

 

[Loswr]

This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc...
Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)

I am 53 years old now, and waiting a decade for Canon to decide that it is a time to upgrade sensor is just unacceptable for me. That's why I am enjoying my beloved bit awkward A7r for some time now and pushing the envelopes the way I could never push with any of the current Canon cameras...
I hope this makes some sense to at least some of you

Lets hope that Canon once again is capable of philosophy that brought to life 5D Classic once upon a time...
Thank you.

It's nice that some people can tolerate using a camera they admit is awkward and be happy about that. Tomorrow, I'll be out shooting raptors at the seashore for several hours. Air temps will be in the teens and with wind chill it'll be about 0 °F (–18 °C). Trying to operate an awkward little body with poorly designed controls wearing thick gloves as the AF fails to effectively track fast-moving subjects and the weak little battery tries to cope with the cold and maybe it will last long enough that the LCD and EVF black out from the low temps leaving me no way to even see the subject...yeah, a Sony a7R is just what I need to push some envelopes...

:

To pick one aspect of a system for one use and to think that all should worship it is lunacy...

+1

 

[PureClassA]

LOL!! I seriously gotta stop reading Neuro's posts when I'm drinking something. I'm tried of cleaning it up after I laugh it out all over my desk.

 

[bdunbar79]

This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc...
Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)

I am 53 years old now, and waiting a decade for Canon to decide that it is a time to upgrade sensor is just unacceptable for me. That's why I am enjoying my beloved bit awkward A7r for some time now and pushing the envelopes the way I could never push with any of the current Canon cameras...
I hope this makes some sense to at least some of you

Lets hope that Canon once again is capable of philosophy that brought to life 5D Classic once upon a time...
Thank you.

Not really. Considering about 30-40% of my income comes from shooting sports, and the A7r SUCKS at shooting sports, I'm perfectly happy with my pair of 1Dx's.

 

[Sunnystate]

This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc...
Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)

I am 53 years old now, and waiting a decade for Canon to decide that it is a time to upgrade sensor is just unacceptable for me. That's why I am enjoying my beloved bit awkward A7r for some time now and pushing the envelopes the way I could never push with any of the current Canon cameras...
I hope this makes some sense to at least some of you

Lets hope that Canon once again is capable of philosophy that brought to life 5D Classic once upon a time...
Thank you.

It's nice that some people can tolerate using a camera they admit is awkward and be happy about that. Tomorrow, I'll be out shooting raptors at the seashore for several hours. Air temps will be in the teens and with wind chill it'll be about 0 °F (–18 °C). Trying to operate an awkward little body with poorly designed controls wearing thick gloves as the AF fails to effectively track fast-moving subjects and the weak little battery tries to cope with the cold and maybe it will last long enough that the LCD and EVF black out from the low temps leaving me no way to even see the subject...yeah, a Sony a7R is just what I need to push some envelopes...

:

To pick one aspect of a system for one use and to think that all should worship it is lunacy...

+1

Actually Neuro, I really wish to be there with you and compare the notes later
Regards, Zenon

 

[Famateur]

LOL!! I seriously gotta stop reading Neuro's posts when I'm drinking something. I'm tried of cleaning it up after I laugh it out all over my desk.

Just do like I do with inspiration from the restaurant salad bar: Install a glass sneeze guard. ;D

Then all you need is a squeegee in the desk drawer...

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

with 4k and all the other stuff people claim to need but at this point is all but unusable or viewable

LOL

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

More choices are always better. But Canon is in a difficult position which speaks against having anything more than one 5DIV out there. I fail to see that Canon is in a situation that they can allow themsleves to spread incremental improvements thin accross the board and forego the very best they can deliver in an attempt to regain the high ground.

A high megapix 5DIV is not competing with the 5DIII. Its competing to outshine the D750 and outdo the D810. So anything short of 5 fps, less AF points, DR, lower iso etc. is a no-go. Canon simply can not afford to leave aside the very best they can deliver in all areas compared to where the competition is today.

When it comes to speed 5DIII is not a fast shooter with its 6 fps. Should Canon not be able to do at least as much with a high megapix camera when Nikon's D810 already does 5fps? The D750 - practically a discount camera compared to the 5DIII - does 7.5 fps!

Canon was stunned when Nikon produced the D800 at a lower price than the 5DIII. I am certain Canon is doing everything they can to reverse that situation with the 5DIV. Just throwing a lot of pixels into a box will not cut it when all indications are that Nikon has a 40+ megapix upgrade to the D810 in the making.

exactly
and don't forget the higher speed modes in aps-c crop for some of the Nikons (and with crop you get to keep your reach for wildlife and sports unlike with the fake pseudo-RAW sRAW, mRAW mess)

It's a dangerous game they'd play by trying to get too tricky. They could end up with three crippled cameras.

 

[dash2k8]

Not really. Considering about 30-40% of my income comes from shooting sports, and the A7r SUCKS at shooting sports, I'm perfectly happy with my pair of 1Dx's.

I have to say this is not fair. The A7r and 1Dx are completely different classes. I have a a7s and would never think to take action shots with it as even my old 7D could focus faster. There are advantages to each body. The new a7ii with its 5-axis stabilization AND fast cont. AF is miles ahead of the 1Dx for video, for example.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Anyhoo, this is what I'd sepculate:

1. 5Ds High-Megapixel for $4,999

Wow - that would certainly make my wallet's demand for moving over to Nikon increase by leaps and bounds!

Canon already outpriced itself once with the $3.500 5DIII what do you expext they will put into a 5Ds that will make people fork over $5.000? That's the price range of a 1D series Camera.

I got both my 5DII's very early after intro for $2.200 - just say'in.

Yeah who pays $5000 for some high MP but slug of a camera when since it's no good for action so much anyway you might as well just get an adapted Sony for a fraction of the price.

If it is gonna be $5000 it needs to be fast too to separate itself from the Sony+adapter options.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

This rumor fits almost exactly what I've been predicting: A 5D high definition camera (I thought it might actually be called 5D HD, but if the rumor is correct, Canon seems to prefer 5Ds) and a general purpose 5DIV that will be a more true successor to the 5DIII.

Good news for those of us who would rather see other improvements before increased megapixels.

My wish list:

Some variation of 7DII/1DX autofocus;
Touch Screen with a sensible user interface;
Basic on-screen photo editing, similar to what can be found on iPads and iPhones (Ideally Lightroom or Photoshop for Canon);
Easy to use Wi-Fi to allow images to be transferred to the cloud and shared with clients quickly once a few edits have been made;
Dual-Pixel autofocus (especially for video)

In other words, let's hope they focus on bringing cameras into the 21st century in terms of usability and cloud connectivity. It's embarrassing that some guy with an iPhone can upload an image and share it with clients faster than photographers can with a $3,000 camera.

I don't need more dynamic range or more megapixels. Give me something that will actually help me make money.

So after all these years you just want a 5D4 to be a 5D3 with a trace better AF, a touch screen and WIFI???
And we are supposed to shell out $3500 just to get that?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc...
Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)

I am 53 years old now, and waiting a decade for Canon to decide that it is a time to upgrade sensor is just unacceptable for me. That's why I am enjoying my beloved bit awkward A7r for some time now and pushing the envelopes the way I could never push with any of the current Canon cameras...
I hope this makes some sense to at least some of you

Lets hope that Canon once again is capable of philosophy that brought to life 5D Classic once upon a time...
Thank you.

+1

 

[PureClassA]

I think this rumor may have gotten garbled in translation. I really don't think they will make three ... but two makes sense UNLESS the 6D2 is not far behind.

I think they need a good performer for the all around mid 20MP market "THE Wedding Camera" kinda thing. Then you have your upscale high MP beast. It has to be price competitive to the Nikon D810 or the 46 MP replacement if that will be the same range.

I just don't see Canon screwing the pooch on their 5 line. This is their professional bread and butter baby.

 

[Don Haines]

Tomorrow, I'll be out shooting raptors at the seashore for several hours. Air temps will be in the teens and with wind chill it'll be about 0 °F (–18 °C). Trying to operate an awkward little body with poorly designed controls wearing thick gloves as the AF fails to effectively track fast-moving subjects and the weak little battery tries to cope with the cold and maybe it will last long enough that the LCD and EVF black out from the low temps leaving me no way to even see the subject...yeah, a Sony a7R is just what I need to push some envelopes...

Look forward to seeing the results... good luck in the chase!

I'm going out hunting black backed woodpeckers and red breasted nuthatches tomorrow... The temperature is supposed to hit a high of -14C (before wind chill). I certainly agree with you that the ability to handle the cold is wonderful feature... I don't have enough experience on it to say how much, but the 7D2 is definitely far more tolerant of cold than the 60D or 5D2 was....

This is another factor of great importance to those in cooler climates..... and completely useless to those in the tropics. Another perfect example how to one person a feature can be a critical requirement, yet to the next person not even worth considering.

 

[Dylan777]

This CR2 reminded me of 5D III rumors. While shooting with 5D2, I was thrilled when I saw 5D III AF system.

Wonder, what 1DX II has to offer 8)

 

[Orangutan]

Canon was stunned when Nikon produced the D800 at a lower price than the 5DIII. I am certain Canon is doing everything they can to reverse that situation with the 5DIV

FP!!

Where did you get that information? If that were the case Canon would have lowered the price of the 5D3. The reports I've seen suggest that the 5D3 vastly outsold the D800 line-up. It's much more likely that the D750 was produced to play catch-up with the 5D3. The D800 was (rightly, I believe) praised as a studio/landscape specialist camera, but I believe the 5D3 ate its lunch in the overall market.

 

[PureClassA]

Canon was stunned when Nikon produced the D800 at a lower price than the 5DIII. I am certain Canon is doing everything they can to reverse that situation with the 5DIV

FP!!

Where did you get that information? If that were the case Canon would have lowered the price of the 5D3. The reports I've seen suggest that the 5D3 vastly outsold the D800 line-up. It's much more likely that the D750 was produced to play catch-up with the 5D3. The D800 was (rightly, I believe) praised as a studio/landscape specialist camera, but I believe the 5D3 ate its lunch in the overall market.

Correct.