EOS 5D Mark IV Testing Has Begun [CR2]

[Marsu42]

Only *ONE* camera (Samsung NX1) currently encodes using this compression.

Support generally starts with one camera, so nothing's wrong with that - but it does prove the tech is there, and postprocessing software will be quick to add h265 in addition to h264 as the former is just an updated version of the latter given newer hardware is faster and can cope with it.

Actually I'm amazed Samsung pulled this off given the computation requirements of h265, so probably they use the very lowest compression profile they could and the difference to optimized h264 might not be that large.

As other's have pointed out, you don't have to have H.265/HEVC to do 4K.

... and ...

Hell, give me H.265 1080p, I want to save some damn HDD space!

I'm really not a video person, but I'd like to mention that taking this argument further, you don't even need to have x264 but could be happy with mpeg4 asp like in xvid - or high-bitrate mpeg2 like on a dvd. So it's really about finding the sweet spot, and *card* space capacity as well as the camera-card interface is a bottleneck.

 

[vscd]

The little flash is fragile and catches on things. So I don't put it on the camera unless I need it. If I need it, I might need it for a fleeting moment that's too short for me to get it, mount it, and wait for it to charge, whereas the popup is ready with a button press and a second of charging.

Nice story bro, but senseless in my opinion. You don't have to wait for a charge because you have to be prepared on location (turn the damn thing on).

It doesn't cost anyone anything but the small cost to the body.

You wish. It costs extra circuits, lines to the battery and a lot of engineering around the prism.

If you don't like it, don't use it.

You don't get it, right? I DONT WANT TO HAVE IT AT ALL. Would you put a Arca Swiss Plate on a 5D just for the two who needs them, just to carry it around, never using it? Ever heard of modular systems?

Nikon and Canon have both figured out how to incorporate popup flashes on full-frame bodies. It weighs nothing compared to a 580 or 600.

Your arguments are all invalid, I never spoke about a 580EX on your body all the time, I spoke about a 90EX. Please read again. And this one, I cite your sentence "weights nothing compared to a 580 or 600".

I have room in my bag for *either the 35L or the 580EX*.

You need a place for the 90EX because you want to substitute your micekymouse-flash. I think this one will fit in your bag.

It's just smugness like having a popup deflates your manhood or something.

As always, people who run out of arguments go to the testicle-slang...

 

[docsmith]

Coming to this party a bit late, so my apologies if this has already been covered, but my wishlist for a 5DIV:

• Even more of a spread of the cross type AF points...maybe a few more as well
• More and a better spread of the f/8 AF points. Say 19 f/8 AF points similar to the original 7D system (this may be more of a 1DX II feature, but I'd love to see it in the 5DIV)
• This has been said a number of ways, but less noise in the dark currant/shadows/etc. This will lead to a bump in DR, but it really is specific to wanting darker black
• 8 fps
• Metering centered around the active focus point
• 22-28 MPs A few more would be nice, but not necessary

 

[kphoto99]

For people who suggest using 90EX instead of a popup flash. The GN of most Canon popup flash is 17 to 19, the GN of the 90EX is 9. So the popup is twice as powerful as the 90EX.
Canon could add bounce to the popup the same way as they added bounce to the flash on the M3. Would that make it more useful?

 

[Loswr]

For people who suggest using 90EX instead of a popup flash. The GN of most Canon popup flash is 17 to 19, the GN of the 90EX is 9. So the popup is twice as powerful as the 90EX.

The 7DII popup is GN 11. The 70D is GN 12. The T6i/750D is GN 9.4.

Sorry, but which 'most Canon popup flash' are you talking about??

 

[bdunbar79]

This thread has to have the most BS ever, in any thread ever on here, and that's really saying a lot.

 

[K]

What is up with all the misinfo on the Digic processors and existing camera specs in this thread? It's not like the specs aren't published for years now.


Anyway...


We have now seen Canon's latest sensor technology in the 5DS, 7D2 and the 760D. In some ways, it is a minor improvement, in other ways, they've made a decent jump. What we haven't seen is this sensor technology is a larger pixel size, and whether that will make a difference or not.

What we've already seen is about the same DR, but a slight decrease in noise and boost in IQ. This is actually a good sign, considering the 3 cameras released with this new sensor technology all have crop-sensor pixel density. None of these new cameras is a stop better. Instead, they've upped the pixel count while either being about the same or about 1/3 stop better on noise and an obvious boost in IQ.

I expect a FF camera with 24-28 MP to be able to make that full stop improvement for noise. I think Canon will pull that off. At least one of the 5D4's will have native 51K ISO.

If the 5D4 comes in a "cinema" version also as is rumored using an 18MP sensor, that will likely just be the 1DX's sensor inherited and that is already a full stop better at higher ISO.


I don't expect 9fps. 7-8 will be most realistic.


Big area of improvement that Canon will make a selling point on will be AF. Focus points will probably be in the same realm number wise, but probably more sensitivity, more dual-cross types, better metering, intelligent tracking etcetera etcetera.


In the end, if you got 1 stop better ISO, more MP, a little more FPS, and improved AF - these main factors would be worthy of justifying the 5D4 as an upgraded camera. Don't expect massive leaps. More evolutionary. Of course, it will get all the new bells and whistles like distortion control, anti-flicker and the new viewfinder, menus....


Yet, some will still freak out and say this camera didn't deliver.


I will say this though, one of these 5D4's is going to have to have 4K. No way about it.

 

[bdunbar79]

"In the end, if you got 1 stop better ISO, more MP, a little more FPS, and improved AF - these main factors would be worthy of justifying the 5D4 as an upgraded camera. Don't expect massive leaps. More evolutionary. Of course, it will get all the new bells and whistles like distortion control, anti-flicker and the new viewfinder, menus...."

I will be the first to pre-order if this is the case.

 

[Lee Jay]

The little flash is fragile and catches on things. So I don't put it on the camera unless I need it. If I need it, I might need it for a fleeting moment that's too short for me to get it, mount it, and wait for it to charge, whereas the popup is ready with a button press and a second of charging.

Nice story bro, but senseless in my opinion. You don't have to wait for a charge because you have to be prepared on location (turn the damn thing on).

"The little flash is fragile and catches on things. So I don't put it on the camera unless I need it."

I have a little flash that's better in every way than a 90EX - bouncable, smaller, has a diffuser, GN 20 versus 9, AA batteries instead of AAA batteries, hotshoe folds flat. But it's fragile and catches on everything because it sticks up from the camera. I'm always afraid I'm going to tear it off or tear off the hot shoe with it by getting it snagged on something (which happens constantly). SO IT ISN'T MOUNTED UNLESS I NEED IT.

A popup in the down position is vastly more rugged and less intrusive than *any flash mounted to the hot shoe*, and it's ready in a second or two with the push of a button. No opening the bag, getting out the flash, mounting it, getting it ready, shooting, and putting it back. Button, flash, done. There's no chance of catching it on anything because you put it back down when not in use.

Geeze, you'd think I was explaining the finer points of supersonic chocked flow expansion or something.

The damned flash gets caught on things so I don't mount it on the camera unless I need it. I've had it rip the entire camera off my shoulder getting caught on someone's bag who was walking by the other way. I caught it by the strap just a few inches before it hit the pavement.

Is that so hard to understand?

The fact that they're included on the cheapest and smallest cameras Canon sells indicates cost and size aren't a real issue. Hell, a $299 teeny tiny refurbished SL1 has one rated at a guide number of 9.4 meters versus 9.0 meters for the 90EX. http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-sl1-body-refurbished The Rebels have a guide number typically in the 13 meter range, and we can't have one on a body as big and expensive as a 5D body? Give me a break.

 

[Marsu42]

Canon could add bounce to the popup the same way as they added bounce to the flash on the M3. Would that make it more useful?

In my experience (from 60d) the pop-up flash isn't sufficient for bound (or diffusion) in any case, and even if working the poor thing at 100% output will make it refuse service b/c of overheating after some flashes.

Basically the pop-up is nice as an optical master indoors, or for small fill flash as it's very near the optical axis and the drop shadow is smaller than from a large flash on the hotshoe when used w/o bracket.

Let's rather hope Canon manages to build a rt-flash controller right inside the 5d4 and other upcoming cameras.

 

[Lee Jay]

Basically the pop-up is nice as an optical master indoors, or for small fill flash as it's very near the optical axis and the drop shadow is smaller than from a large flash on the hotshoe when used w/o bracket.

I use it for those two applications and for macros sometimes.

I don't use flashes as a main light unless they are off-camera and in some sort of diffusion system like an umbrella, unless there's just no other way to get the shot at all (which is rare, but it does happen once in a while).

 

[Loswr]

Basically the pop-up is nice as an optical master indoors, or for small fill flash as it's very near the optical axis and the drop shadow is smaller than from a large flash on the hotshoe when used w/o bracket.

The drop shadow may be smaller with a popup flash, but the lens/hood shadow with a larger lens... Well, that's just another aspect of its uselesness.

Let's rather hope Canon manages to build a rt-flash controller right inside the 5d4 and other upcoming cameras.

+1

 

[Lee Jay]

Basically the pop-up is nice as an optical master indoors, or for small fill flash as it's very near the optical axis and the drop shadow is smaller than from a large flash on the hotshoe when used w/o bracket.

The drop shadow may be smaller with a popup flash, but the lens/hood shadow with a larger lens... Well, that's just another aspect of its uselesness.

In practice, that's almost never an issue except with ultrawides. Even with the hood on, there's no problem with a lens like the 70-200/2.8 or even the 24-105 in most cases.

 

[kphoto99]

For people who suggest using 90EX instead of a popup flash. The GN of most Canon popup flash is 17 to 19, the GN of the 90EX is 9. So the popup is twice as powerful as the 90EX.

The 7DII popup is GN 11. The 70D is GN 12. The T6i/750D is GN 9.4.

Sorry, but which 'most Canon popup flash' are you talking about??

Yep, you are right.

Now I'm wondering why I had an overinflated expectation of power of the popup. What is the most powerful build in flash on any modern camera?

 

[vscd]

The fact that they're included on the cheapest and smallest cameras Canon sells indicates cost and size aren't a real issue.

The fact that no Canon Fullframe cam has a flash inside says nothing to you? You want a flash, I don't want a flash to carry around... so we have different needs. Let's see who will be recognized. I think it's far more important to implement a Radio Controller oder switchable focusscreens.

 

[Lee Jay]

The fact that they're included on the cheapest and smallest cameras Canon sells indicates cost and size aren't a real issue.

The fact that no Canon Fullframe cam has a flash inside says nothing to you?

It says Canon is stupid in this area and Nikon isn't.

 

[Sporgon]

I've no problem with pop up flash on a cheap, portable, casual camera. I do not want pop up flash on an expensive, FF camera that's whole raison d'etre is superior image quality. If I'd been involved in the 7DII it wouldn't have had a pop up flash, but I would have still incorporated it on the cheaper models.

This is nothing to do with being a 'camera snob'. It's to do with the fact that in 99% of shooting occasions the cheaper cameras produce an image that is indistinguishable from the more expensive ones, so if you're the sort of person who wants a bit of direct, harsh fill or overall illumination now and again why have you bothered to spend that cash on a FF ? And if you insist on it go buy a Nikon; it's easy.

And Lee; it's not Canon being stupid, rather honest. If you want pop up flash you should be saving your money and by a crop camera pal.

 

[Lee Jay]

I've no problem with pop up flash on a cheap, portable, casual camera. I do not want pop up flash on an expensive, FF camera that's whole raison d'etre is superior image quality. If I'd been involved in the 7DII it wouldn't have had a pop up flash, but I would have still incorporated it on the cheaper models.

This is nothing to do with being a 'camera snob'. It's to do with the fact that in 99% of shooting occasions the cheaper cameras produce an image that is indistinguishable from the more expensive ones, so if you're the sort of person who wants a bit of direct, harsh fill or overall illumination now and again why have you bothered to spend that cash on a FF ? And if you insist on it go buy a Nikon; it's easy.

And Lee; it's not Canon being stupid, rather honest. If you want pop up flash you should be saving your money and by a crop camera pal.

I've owned a 5D since it was released. My biggest disappointment with it over the years is the images I've missed because it lacks a flash.

If you all would actually learn how to use a flash you wouldn't find it so useless. You know why I haven't posted examples? Lightroom can't tell internal from external flash via the EXIF and I can't tell from the images unless they were bounced or off-camera.

The popup works just fine for a little fill or a little catch light - sometimes even better than a 580EX because it's closer to the lens. I have a flash bracket. I have three external flashes. I have light stands and modifiers. I have a full set of gels for all of them. I know what can be done with flash. I also know you don't carry any of that around with you when you are traveling, hiking in caves, walking around theme parks, riding on a boat or submarine, etc. The only good reason to get a flash a little farther from the lens (as opposed to off camera) is to avoid red-eye. If you are shooting with mostly available light and just using the flash as fill or catchlight, that isn't the issue and the near-lens flash is actually better. That's why they sell ring lights, for example!

 

[Loswr]

Basically the pop-up is nice as an optical master indoors, or for small fill flash as it's very near the optical axis and the drop shadow is smaller than from a large flash on the hotshoe when used w/o bracket.

The drop shadow may be smaller with a popup flash, but the lens/hood shadow with a larger lens... Well, that's just another aspect of its uselesness.

In practice, that's almost never an issue except with ultrawides. Even with the hood on, there's no problem with a lens like the 70-200/2.8 or even the 24-105 in most cases.

Sure, it's 'almost never an issue' when you're talking about using lenses/hoods designed for a FF image circle on a crop sensor camera... The Canon EF-S 17-55mm hood casts a shadow with the popup flash.

Since you're advocating a popup on Canon FF bodies, the 'almost never an issue' logic is flawed. Consider that on Nikon FX bodies, the popup flash causes a shadow with the 24-70mm f/2.8 lens...without the hood.

I guess Canon is so stupid they haven't added a feature they know will cause problems in common use cases, while Nikon is smart enough to know users won't mind a black shadow in their images (or more likely, Nikon FF users are smart enough to know the popup is best used as an optical flash commander and not to light a scene).

 

[vscd]

@Lee Jay

Posting Photos of Nikonbodies says nothing because I know which camera carries a flash and which not (therefor I wrote "Canon fullframes"). Nikon can include a flash on the D800 because there are a lot of people outside who pay $3000 for a camera because they have the money and no clue on photography. I know people who shoot with the hyper-fullframe because it's an Award Winning Camera on a local photomagazine. They have a D800 and shoot in full-automatic-mode with a 18-300 mm 3rd-Party lens for selfies. Those people demand a flash like you because they also buy lense with the greatest Zoom-range.

On the Probodies form Nikon (D3/D4) there is also no flash and I guess there will be none in future. On Mediumformat you won't find it eighter. No place for water to enter and why bother including a feature that 90% of your target audience is likely to ignore. I guess Nikon uses the pop-up as a trigger for their lighting system. Radio Controlled Flashs may be the better way to sync, so I would spare the room for the radiosending device...