EOS 5D Mark IV Testing Has Begun [CR2]

[JohnBran]

...waiting for something from Canon to address their inferior DR. I was in market for new Canon camera. I really wanted to stay with Canon but on the end recently sold rest of my canon lenses and moved over to Nikon.

Thank God for that !

At least you didn't stick with Canon and then come here to whinge about them ;D

Compared with years ago it's now really easy to get out of a system. On line sites like e bay make it very easy to sell used gear, and both Nikon and Canon hold their used value. Also many people now have just a body, a couple of zoom lenses and a flash. Not like the days when you have umpteen fixed focal length lenses and had to take a massive hit at the local second hand camera shop.

Hahaha true!

and totally agree with you regarding lenses. One thing i've realised over the time is that i only need 3 prime lenses and that covers all my needs so jumping from system to system is not that hard, maybe even staying with both systems is my ultimate goal.
I'll have 3 good primes on Canon and Nikon and when i'm due camera body upgrade then i just pick the best on the market at the time - its win-win !

 

[GMCPhotographics]

...waiting for something from Canon to address their inferior DR. I was in market for new Canon camera. I really wanted to stay with Canon but on the end recently sold rest of my canon lenses and moved over to Nikon.

Thank God for that !

At least you didn't stick with Canon and then come here to whinge about them ;D

Compared with years ago it's now really easy to get out of a system. On line sites like e bay make it very easy to sell used gear, and both Nikon and Canon hold their used value. Also many people now have just a body, a couple of zoom lenses and a flash. Not like the days when you have umpteen fixed focal length lenses and had to take a massive hit at the local second hand camera shop.

I've not met a single professional photographer who's found the "limited" Canon DR to be a restriction or has hampered any of their sales or creativity...so go figure. In the mean time there's a few Nikon amateurs who have read some stuff on the internet and want to make a big issue with it and feel like they have "enlightened knowledge". . I say "a few" because the Canon 5DIII is still out selling any of the Nikon full frame cameras.

If you want to buy Nikon, go for it...it's your money to waste. In the mean time, photographers are getting our there and taking pictures...you never know...this photography lark might catch on.

 

[Sporgon]

I've not met a single professional photographer who's found the "limited" Canon DR to be a restriction or has hampered any of their sales or creativity...

Nor have I.

The emphasis being on professional of course.

 

[bdunbar79]

I respectfully disagree with this statement:

"Hypothesis; If Canon had sourced the 36MP sensor used in the D810 and A7r (I think it is) and released a 5DS&5DSR version with that two years ago. What would have happened to their market share, up or down? I think the answer is obvious. Would it require massive R&D investments? No. Would Sony sell? Yes, they sell to everyone."

It's not obvious. The 5D Mark III outsold the D800/E so it wasn't a larger concern for most shooters, even professionals. Could it have gone up or down, I don't know, but the answer is not obvious.

 

[bdunbar79]

Nothing but speculation? Is it speculation that Canon has been behind on low ISO DR for ~6 years? Is it speculation that Canon has been and remains the dSLR market leader? I make a logical conclusion based on facts. Or if you prefer, it's nothing but speculation that the sun will set at the end of the day.

Logic you say? Your premises does not support your conclusion, as I have already tried to point out but you obviously missed. I.e. you are just speculating or perhaps trolling. Does beeing a market leader mean they can't do better? No difference between 80% and 40% market share? How do you know how much or little of the market they miss out due to this DR issue?

If Canon were LOSING market share to Nikon and Sony that would be one thing.

 

[SwnSng]

6 months ago not so sure..but now i'm dead sure that I want Canon to make a sensor with 14-15 stops of DR just so all the DRoning would just stop...but i'm sure they would just then pick something else to beat-up to death.

GO OUT and shoot!

 

[Eldar]

I respectfully disagree with this statement:

"Hypothesis; If Canon had sourced the 36MP sensor used in the D810 and A7r (I think it is) and released a 5DS&5DSR version with that two years ago. What would have happened to their market share, up or down? I think the answer is obvious. Would it require massive R&D investments? No. Would Sony sell? Yes, they sell to everyone."

It's not obvious. The 5D Mark III outsold the D800/E so it wasn't a larger concern for most shooters, even professionals. Could it have gone up or down, I don't know, but the answer is not obvious.

You are totally missing the point. The point is not to compare 5DIII with D800/E sales. The point is how many of the sold D800/E/D810/A7r would have been Canon cameras instead, if they had done as stated above and how many Canon users would have bought one of those in addition to a 5DIII (or a 1DX). It is pretty obvious that sum would be a positive number and most likely a substantial one.

 

[Marsu42]

GO OUT and shoot!

Yay, now we're talking, my favorite kind of post - someone in an internet forum telling people not to post in an internet forum

 

[Eldar]

GO OUT and shoot!

Yay, now we're talking, my favorite kind of post - someone in an internet forum telling people not to post in an internet forum

He he, Been out for several hours. This is probably the best keeper for the day, where a Great Crested Grebe is enjoying the first sun rays of the day, while giving her newly hatched a hug
1DX, 600 f4L IS II + 1.4xIII

 

[Don Haines]

GO OUT and shoot!

Yay, now we're talking, my favorite kind of post - someone in an internet forum telling people not to post in an internet forum

He he, Been out for several hours. This is probably the best keeper for the day, where a Great Crested Grebe is enjoying the first sun rays of the day, while giving her newly hatched a hug
1DX, 600 f4L IS II + 1.4xIII

NICE!

 

[Marsu42]

GO OUT and shoot!

Yay, now we're talking, my favorite kind of post - someone in an internet forum telling people not to post in an internet forum

He he, Been out for several hours. This is probably the best keeper for the day

Nice one, for a change this doesn't just have enthusiast's top notch iq and smooooooth bokeh, but some emotional content for a change

 

[bdunbar79]

I respectfully disagree with this statement:

"Hypothesis; If Canon had sourced the 36MP sensor used in the D810 and A7r (I think it is) and released a 5DS&5DSR version with that two years ago. What would have happened to their market share, up or down? I think the answer is obvious. Would it require massive R&D investments? No. Would Sony sell? Yes, they sell to everyone."

It's not obvious. The 5D Mark III outsold the D800/E so it wasn't a larger concern for most shooters, even professionals. Could it have gone up or down, I don't know, but the answer is not obvious.

You are totally missing the point. The point is not to compare 5DIII with D800/E sales. The point is how many of the sold D800/E/D810/A7r would have been Canon cameras instead, if they had done as stated above and how many Canon users would have bought one of those in addition to a 5DIII (or a 1DX). It is pretty obvious that sum would be a positive number and most likely a substantial one.

I'm guessing not many at all of the sold D800/E/810 cameras would have ever been or ever had the potential of being Canon purchased cameras instead. That would require people changing systems.

 

[martti]

You do not see much shots like that one by Eldar coming from the DR fanatics.
Might be that yuo can be a DR fanatic in your office whereas to shoot this swimming ostrich with its calf you actually have to be in close contact with cold water and mud. Wakie wakie 4 h something....

kudos, Eldar!

 

[msm]

GO OUT and shoot!

Yay, now we're talking, my favorite kind of post - someone in an internet forum telling people not to post in an internet forum

He he, Been out for several hours. This is probably the best keeper for the day, where a Great Crested Grebe is enjoying the first sun rays of the day, while giving her newly hatched a hug
1DX, 600 f4L IS II + 1.4xIII

Nice one indeed. May I ask where you shoot these birds? Østensjøvannet?

 

[LonelyBoy]

And those who care about DR have already stopped buying Canon cameras and are now buying either Nikon or Sony or Pentax. A customer once lost is harder to regain.

So what you're saying is, the lost customers are lost, and the thing to do is focus on continuing to satisfy current customers instead of whining non-customers. Got it.

 

[LonelyBoy]

And if they don't and someone else does then people that want the convenience of a built in flash or built in SIM slot or swivel screen change brand ... there are lots of people that upload directly to Instagram/facebook.

Right... did you miss the point of my post? Do you think all of that (plus everything else that anyone would ever want) can be implemented in the same camera, keeping it small and light and cheap enough for mainstream users, and done well?

 

[Eldar]

GO OUT and shoot!

Yay, now we're talking, my favorite kind of post - someone in an internet forum telling people not to post in an internet forum

He he, Been out for several hours. This is probably the best keeper for the day, where a Great Crested Grebe is enjoying the first sun rays of the day, while giving her newly hatched a hug
1DX, 600 f4L IS II + 1.4xIII

Nice one indeed. May I ask where you shoot these birds? Østensjøvannet?

Yupp! It is about 2km from where I work, so I go there around 5:30 and stay a few hours before work. Quite exceptional to have a lake like that so close to the city

 

[msm]

GO OUT and shoot!

Yay, now we're talking, my favorite kind of post - someone in an internet forum telling people not to post in an internet forum

He he, Been out for several hours. This is probably the best keeper for the day, where a Great Crested Grebe is enjoying the first sun rays of the day, while giving her newly hatched a hug
1DX, 600 f4L IS II + 1.4xIII

Nice one indeed. May I ask where you shoot these birds? Østensjøvannet?

Yupp! It is about 2km from where I work, so I go there around 5:30 and stay a few hours before work. Quite exceptional to have a lake like that so close to the city

That's a nice way to do it, another reason why I should have had a car or MC I guess, since the collective system here in Oslo doesn't wake up until several hours later

 

[Loswr]

Nothing but speculation? Is it speculation that Canon has been behind on low ISO DR for ~6 years? Is it speculation that Canon has been and remains the dSLR market leader? I make a logical conclusion based on facts. Or if you prefer, it's nothing but speculation that the sun will set at the end of the day.

Logic you say? Your premises does not support your conclusion, as I have already tried to point out but you obviously missed. I.e. you are just speculating or perhaps trolling. Does beeing a market leader mean they can't do better? No difference between 80% and 40% market share? How do you know how much or little of the market they miss out due to this DR issue?

I didn't miss your point. No one knows how much or little of the market Canon misses because of DR, and by that token no one knows that the sun will rise in the morning. But who is in the best position to guess the differential market share for DR...you? Me? Or a company that spends significant amounts of money on market research? We can observe where Canon has improved their dSLRs, we can observe what other manufacturers offer, we can observe market share. From those observations, we can draw conclusions. Canon has not substantially improved low ISO DR. Other makers deliver more low ISO DR. Canon remains the market leader. Connect the dots, it's not hard.

Hypothesis; If Canon had sourced the 36MP sensor used in the D810 and A7r (I think it is) and released a 5DS&5DSR version with that two years ago. What would have happened to their market share, up or down? I think the answer is obvious. Would it require massive R&D investments? No. Would Sony sell? Yes, they sell to everyone.

I don't think the answer is obvious at all. Well, maybe it's obvious that market share would have increased, but by how much...and at what cost? If a 5% increase in market share requires 20% greater production costs, is it fiscally sound? Market share is important, but what really matters are revenues, profits, and shareholder value. Would you like to have a company that had 100% of the market share for replacement parts for the Edsel?

Consider that in the fourth quarter of last year, the Apple iPhone had ~15% of the global smartphone market share. Pretty unimpressive, right? Samsung is really clobbering them, right? But...for that same quarter Apple had ~93% of the global smartphone profits. So, who's clobbering who?

 

[bdunbar79]

Oh shut up. You know darn well every Nikon shooter and their brother would have promptly dumped all of their gear and bought the 5D3 if it had high DR at low ISO.