EOS 70D a New Benchmark in ISO Performance?

[Loswr]

@ tron - sorry, I forgot to append the <sarcasm> tags...

 

[x-vision]

IMO the "groundbreaking" aspect of the 7D2 will be an EVF.

Canon never said groundbreaking, actually.
In a January interview, Canon's camera boss said that 7DII will evolve in new territory.
English in not my first language but I sense a difference between 'evolve' and 'groundbreaking' 8).

The thing to consider is that if the 7DII just gets the new 70D sensor, it has already evolved in new territory - due to the expended AF system abilities for video.

My hope is that the 70D will use a sensor with better ISO capabilities than the 70D - even if this means reducing the number of MPs compared to the 70D.

 

[K-amps]

When do we get to see RAW footage?

 

[Marsu42]

the 70D is able to shoot at higher ISOs than previous models - it's spec is 100-12800 with one stop expanded, and the 60D is 100-6400 with one stop expanded, so that's true

The highest real analog iso setting on the 18mp crop sensors is 3200, everything above is digitally pushed, and even worse the amplification noise for 6400 is so high it's better to underexpose at 3200. Intermediary and pushed isos are fine for jpeg and video, but for raw the analog choices are 100/200/400/800/1600/3200.

So the question about the 70d is if an expanded iso range actually means higher "real" analog sensor iso settings, or if it's a marketing/digital make-believe.

If the 7D Mark II hit the market, the price you pay for a 5D Mark III or 6D is absolutely a shame compared to the possibilities of the new 7D Mark II. Not every hobby photographers needs a FF camera.

I'm ready to believe this for the 6d in an instant, but if the 7d2 will really be a crop 5d3 plus even more features at a reasonable price then this will be the model that redeems Canon from all past under-speced or high-priced blunders.

 

[AvTvM]

The highest real analog iso setting on the 18mp crop sensors is 3200, everything above is digitally pushed,

do you have a source for this, please? Thanks!

 

[Marsu42]

The highest real analog iso setting on the 18mp crop sensors is 3200, everything above is digitally pushed,

do you have a source for this, please? Thanks!

There are multiple threads on the Magic Lantern forum, last one with some in-depth graphs from a guy called AudioNut, unfortunately I haven't bookmarked it so you have to look for yourself: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/

The information and another thread is also here (under "Is ISO 6400 digitally pushed?"): http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/ISO

 

[AvTvM]

The highest real analog iso setting on the 18mp crop sensors is 3200, everything above is digitally pushed,

do you have a source for this, please? Thanks!

There are multiple threads on the Magic Lantern forum, last one with some in-depth graphs from a guy called AudioNut, unfortunately I haven't bookmarked it so you have to look for yourself: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/

The information and another thread is also here (under "Is ISO 6400 digitally pushed?"): http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/ISO

Thanks.
While this may be the case for video and jpg output out of camera, I doubt it for stills, captured in RAW. But I have never really looked into it myself.
Personally with my 7D I always and solely capture RAW, use only multiples of ISO 100 and go up to 3200 .. .and get good or at least acceptable results ... for my level of expectation.

 

[rpt]

Well, that ought to DRum up some DRead from the DRoll DRones who DRool over DR, and DRag many a forum thread down the DReary path of DRivel, DRaining into puddles of DRoss.

ROFL!
Neuro, you are too much! Brilliant! However, do you really want to DRive the DR DRama onwards? I'D Rather DRop it.

 

[Marsu42]

While this may be the case for video and jpg output out of camera, I doubt it for stills, captured in RAW. But I have never really looked into it myself.

It esp. applies to raw - the data is just shifted around using a higher bv, look for the graphs in the ml forum that demonstrate this and also show that iso 6400 in raw is worse then underexposing 3200 and properly raising in post ... unfortunately I had to learn this the hard way, wondering why iso 1000 looks sooooo much worse than 800 :-(

 

[cookinghusband]

a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.
Just like a 6 cylinder car out doing a 8 cylinder car of the same engine capacity because they have new technology applied. but when then new tech is apply to the 8 cylinder engine it will over come again.

So APS-c do better than FF for a while, then FF improve again.

 

[G650ER]

a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.
Just like a 6 cylinder car out doing a 8 cylinder car of the same engine capacity because they have new technology applied. but when then new tech is apply to the 8 cylinder engine it will over come again.

So APS-c do better than FF for a while, then FF improve again.

Why on earth would they make a 1200$ camera that outperforms the 6D? Then no one would buy the 6D because it would only be advantaged to having GPS. The 6D has benchmark ISO performance, currently the best on the market which is why it attracks so many low light shooters.

 

[bdunbar79]

a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.
Just like a 6 cylinder car out doing a 8 cylinder car of the same engine capacity because they have new technology applied. but when then new tech is apply to the 8 cylinder engine it will over come again.

So APS-c do better than FF for a while, then FF improve again.

 

[verysimplejason]

a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.
Just like a 6 cylinder car out doing a 8 cylinder car of the same engine capacity because they have new technology applied. but when then new tech is apply to the 8 cylinder engine it will over come again.

So APS-c do better than FF for a while, then FF improve again.

That's taken by a 70D? WOW!!! ;D

 

[dtaylor]

a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.

I hope the 70D improves upon Canon's current 18 MP sensor high ISO, but I have zero expectation that it would be better then the 6D in this respect. It is technologically possible for a crop sensor to out perform a FF one on high ISO. Just try any modern APS-C camera against the original 1Ds. But that's not going to happen within the same generation.

 

[paul13walnut5]

never mind that, who is the hipster in the hard hat? Stick him on a fixie bike and it could be Bradley Wiggins with those side burns.

This is like one of those awful oil company promo pics of a driller in the artic clapping a polar bear to show they care. But with ironic glasses.

 

[pedro]

a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.
Just like a 6 cylinder car out doing a 8 cylinder car of the same engine capacity because they have new technology applied. but when then new tech is apply to the 8 cylinder engine it will over come again.

So APS-c do better than FF for a while, then FF improve again.

no that is impossible from, Canon have then solved the earth's energy problems if a APS sensor has that kind of QE

That's correct. The good effect of all that is improvement across the whole field which will be applied in a hopefully much more advanced form in upcoming FF bodies.

 

[tron]

a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.
Just like a 6 cylinder car out doing a 8 cylinder car of the same engine capacity because they have new technology applied. but when then new tech is apply to the 8 cylinder engine it will over come again.

So APS-c do better than FF for a while, then FF improve again.

no that is impossible from, Canon have then solved the earth's energy problems if a APS sensor has that kind of QE

That's correct. The good effect of all that is improvement across the whole field which will be applied in a hopefully much more advanced form in upcoming FF bodies.

And then we wake up ;D

 

[RVB]

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos70d/

 

[pedro]

a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.
Just like a 6 cylinder car out doing a 8 cylinder car of the same engine capacity because they have new technology applied. but when then new tech is apply to the 8 cylinder engine it will over come again.

So APS-c do better than FF for a while, then FF improve again.

no that is impossible from, Canon have then solved the earth's energy problems if a APS sensor has that kind of QE

That's correct. The good effect of all that is improvement across the whole field which will be applied in a hopefully much more advanced form in upcoming FF bodies.

look at whats going on here http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.se
the new sensors comes from the mobile camera research

"EV Group's GEMINI FB fusion wafer bonding platform is the de facto industry standard for CMOS image sensor production, and already leads the industry in wafer-to-wafer alignment accuracy due to our proprietary SmartView alignment technology," stated Dr. Thorsten Matthias, business development director at EV Group. "Measuring and mapping each die gives valuable insight into local stress variations created during upstream processes, which can cause distortions and local misalignments further downstream."

@ankorwatt: If my limited tech comprehension (even severe as a non-anglo) doesn't lead me off track, it is a similar process you were mentioning earlier. So I hope Canon are adjusting to this processes in their own fabrication procedures as well.

 

[Tanja]

a 70D doing better than 6D in ISO performance is all possible.
Just like a 6 cylinder car out doing a 8 cylinder car of the same engine capacity because they have new technology applied. but when then new tech is apply to the 8 cylinder engine it will over come again.

So APS-c do better than FF for a while, then FF improve again.

no that is impossible from, Canon have then solved the earth's energy problems if a APS sensor has that kind of QE

That's correct. The good effect of all that is improvement across the whole field which will be applied in a hopefully much more advanced form in upcoming FF bodies.

look at whats going on here http://image-sensors-world.blogspot.se
the new sensors comes from the mobile camera research

and while your spending half you life arguing about DR on internet forums others take great pictures with 6 year old cameras.

it´s sometimes so embarrasing to read gear focused photography websites. 8)