EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

[PureClassA]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

I still can't fathom how folks are demanding ISO performance that meets or exceeds any Full Frame level. Check back into reality or buy Full Frame. Only setting yourself up for guaranteed disappointment. Even Canon is not able to defy the properties of light and matter. :

 

[cnardo]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

But if Canon said: "Canon today announces DETAILS of it presence at Photokina 2014..." where are they ??????

 

[Don Haines]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

... and improved ISO (5d MKIII or better)

I do believe in Santa Claus. I do I do I do. And flying reindeer. And rainbow-pooping unicorns. Any of those are more likely to be real than an APS-C sensor that's as good or better than the 5DIII at high ISO.

In a fight between physics and fantasy, my money is on physics. 8)

and Neuro moves his hand from left to right, saying "These aren't the droids sensors you're looking for"

 

[Sporgon]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

If it doesn't have flashing LED lights Canon is doomed.

http://photorumors.com/2014/08/27/pentax-k-s1-dslr-camera-with-fancy-led-lights-officially-announced/#more-60114

I see Pentax are making a feature of 'proper' glass pentaprism- brightest viewfinder etc. Those 'flappy' mirror hating dudes are just so off the pace. (anyway who ever heard an APS cameras mirror 'flap'. )

As for the LED light, what is there to say ? Watch the birdie will never be the same again. The Pentax 6x7 must be rolling in its grave. ( And that mirror did flap ).

 

[slclick]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

I'm in the Noise Camp on this one. ISO is why I sold mine. I wouldn't be interested unless it was pretty 'clean' at 6400 and as good as the 5D3 at 1600

 

[AcutancePhotography]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

and you loose!

(facepalm) :

 

[ekt8750]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

The good news is that if it is a totally new sensor, it may be much better than the 70d and it will have better high ISO noise at 20.2 than 24 mp. Im all for a smaller sensor in aps-c. Truthfully, I wish it was closer to 12 or 16. We'd have a killer crop camera!

I'd be happier with a 16 megapixel sensor without dual pixel AF. Do not get me wrong. For the intended use of 7D Mark II (mini 1DX) the most important thing is a big improvement in noise above ISO 1600.

Same here if it means larger pixels that let more light in. Just look at Canon's prosumer camcorders which work on that very concept.

 

[Lee Jay]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

The good news is that if it is a totally new sensor, it may be much better than the 70d and it will have better high ISO noise at 20.2 than 24 mp. Im all for a smaller sensor in aps-c. Truthfully, I wish it was closer to 12 or 16. We'd have a killer crop camera!

I'd be happier with a 16 megapixel sensor without dual pixel AF. Do not get me wrong. For the intended use of 7D Mark II (mini 1DX) the most important thing is a big improvement in noise above ISO 1600.

Same here if it means larger pixels that let more light in. Just look at Canon's prosumer camcorders which work on that very concept.

Saying bigger pixels let more light in is like saying cutting a 15 inch pizza into 6 slices instead of 8 gets you more pizza.

 

[Maui5150]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

I still can't fathom how folks are demanding ISO performance that meets or exceeds any Full Frame level. Check back into reality or buy Full Frame. Only setting yourself up for guaranteed disappointment. Even Canon is not able to defy the properties of light and matter. :

One I own Full Frame and mainly full frame - 5D MK III and II and use a t4i for backup video

Been less than impressed with ISO above 800 on the 5D MK III especially noise on faces when shooting natural light in studio. Granted the 1Dx would be a far better choice, but given it has been 5 years since the 7D, 3 years since the 1Dx and 2.5 since the 5D MK III, one would hope that Canon has made significant inroads in sensor technology, especially given what some of the competition is doing.

It would be nice to see Canon release a new "King of the Crop" followed up by a High MP beast, 1Dxs and 5D MK IV

1Dx and 5D MKIII were decent step ups, but in the world of "what have you done lately", Canon's pro level bodies have been fairly stagnant

All things being equal, FF should beat crop on noise, but would not mind seeing a generational jump where a crop comes close and then the next gen FF blows the doors off.

 

[Marauder]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

If it doesn't have flashing LED lights Canon is doomed.

http://photorumors.com/2014/08/27/pentax-k-s1-dslr-camera-with-fancy-led-lights-officially-announced/#more-60114

Man, I do not know how I could shoot so many years without LED flashing:
Steal me, steal me, steal me, steal me.

"This LED body illumination gives a decorative illumination to the choice of distinctive body colors; furthering the look of the camera as a sophisticated digital device." HA! That's it. Not getting a 7D2 or any other Canon camera! Switching to the Pentax so I can hypnotize birds with flashing LED's so they stay still!! I won't EVER buy a Canon again until they implement "operation Christmas Camera" on their models!!!!

 

[NancyP]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

Hey, I am going on a unicorn photo expedition in January, I need that slightly-better-than-70D high-ISO noise performance. 8)

Bigger pixels give more electron capacity per pixel (say, 4 micron pixel has 30,000 maximum capacity, 7 micro pixel has 100,000 maximum capacity). So, say you have 14-bit ADC, that's roughly 16,000 levels of electrons, or about 2 electrons per level for the 4 micron pixel and 6 electrons per level for the 7 micron pixel. Say you have 30 electrons worth of noise. Noise takes up the first 15 levels for the 4 micron pixel and the first 5 levels for the 7 micron pixel. That's why bigger pixels, all other things being equal, result in less perceptible noise.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

In a fight between physics and fantasy, my money is on physics. 8)

Which ignores the fact that newer crop sensors are waaay better in the high ISO noise stakes than old FF cameras.

There's more to this than "just" physics...

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

That's why bigger pixels, all other things being equal, result in less perceptible noise.

At the pixel level - which is irrelevant at the image level, because of the averaging effect of lots of smaller pixels - and their noise - across the image.

Again: even DxO gets this:
http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/More-pixels-offset-noise

 

[Lee Jay]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

Hey, I am going on a unicorn photo expedition in January, I need that slightly-better-than-70D high-ISO noise performance. 8)

Bigger pixels give more electron capacity per pixel (say, 4 micron pixel has 30,000 maximum capacity, 7 micro pixel has 100,000 maximum capacity). So, say you have 14-bit ADC, that's roughly 16,000 levels of electrons, or about 2 electrons per level for the 4 micron pixel and 6 electrons per level for the 7 micron pixel. Say you have 30 electrons worth of noise. Noise takes up the first 15 levels for the 4 micron pixel and the first 5 levels for the 7 micron pixel. That's why bigger pixels, all other things being equal, result in less perceptible noise.

Perceptible, perhaps, but it's also a smaller file. Reduce the large file to the smaller file's resolution, applying noise reduction as needed to keep the same final sharpness, and you'll usually find that the smaller pixels have less noise.

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

I don't know what the internet equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "la la la!" very loudly is called, but there's a helluva lot of it going on, on this site...

This "small pixels bad, big pixels good" tripe was beaten to death not long after the 7D was released: but here we are, 5 years later, reading the same Flat Earther "articles of faith"...

:

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

But if Canon said: "Canon today announces DETAILS of it presence at Photokina 2014..." where are they ??????

Some people get confused by the hype easily. Its best to never buy anything based on written information if you try to read your own wishes into it. The article was describing the layout and operation Canon booth at the show, nothing else.

New product announcements will be announced the week prior to the opening of the show. There may be prototypes at the show, or just large photo shopped images.

There will also be lots of brochures. They are printed in advance, and its likely that CR guy has a photo of one. He is not going to show it and risk outing the source. Canon extracts revenge on leakers. If a employee leaks something, the company he works for is punished.

 

[x-vision]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

I still say it's possible that it's the 70D sensor and new technology (better performance) at the same time. This is because it's possible that DIGIC 6 will reduce read noise from the same sensor compared to DIGIC 5+ in the 70D.

The ISO range is reportedly the same as on the 70D, which doesn't bode well.
I really hope that I'm wrong, though .

 

[Lee Jay]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

I still say it's possible that it's the 70D sensor and new technology (better performance) at the same time. This is because it's possible that DIGIC 6 will reduce read noise from the same sensor compared to DIGIC 5+ in the 70D.

The ISO range is reportedly the same as on the 70D, which doesn't bode well.
I really hope that I'm wrong, though .

Well, I wouldn't expect the approach I mentioned to provide a full 1-stop improvement so maybe it's just a little better but not enough for an expanded range.

 

[crashpc]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

Who knows. Remember, that this old 18Mpx sensor made it to lowest grade camera. Of course sensor is not what makes the whole camera, but if they end up with that old 20Mpx piece, It will be real ripoff, I´d be definitely done with Canon and painfully jumped elsewhere. That way I believe they will have something a little bit better, just not stellar. I´d be happy if it trupherd sensor of N D7100 or EOS 5D II, but I don´t believe it. Looking forward...

 

[Maui5150]

Re: EOS 7D Mark II & Photokina

Hey, I am going on a unicorn photo expedition in January, I need that slightly-better-than-70D high-ISO noise performance. 8)

Bigger pixels give more electron capacity per pixel (say, 4 micron pixel has 30,000 maximum capacity, 7 micro pixel has 100,000 maximum capacity). So, say you have 14-bit ADC, that's roughly 16,000 levels of electrons, or about 2 electrons per level for the 4 micron pixel and 6 electrons per level for the 7 micron pixel. Say you have 30 electrons worth of noise. Noise takes up the first 15 levels for the 4 micron pixel and the first 5 levels for the 7 micron pixel. That's why bigger pixels, all other things being equal, result in less perceptible noise.

Ummm... Where did I put the tylenol... I have a headache