Everyday camera - what to choose?

[Snzkgb]

I need help in choosing the right everyday camera. I already have two bodies with bunch of lenses, but this backpack is too heavy to grab it everyday, to shoot something while walking to the office or after it.

My requirements are simple: the camera must be as small as possible, but it must keep APS-C sensor and ability to mount lenses. And, of course, there is a price question (I buy almost always only used gear).

For example, SL1 can be found for as low as 300$ and EOS-M original can be found for 250$ in place where I live.
People say SL1 is a great little camera, especially paired with EF-S 24mm f/2.8 and EF-40mm f/2.8, and I like that it is really small for DSLR. On the other hand, EOS-M is much smaller, but than again the M original is maybe the slowest mirrorless camera in the world when speaking about AF speed.

So, what would you recommend?

 

[Maximilian]

Hi Snzkgb!

As one of the 100D/SL1 + pancakes users you could expect my recommendation

But before that you should think and tell us more about you personal requirements and preferences.

For example:

• Do you need/want a viewfinder? (That'll be my #1 reason against an EOS M. Did you ever shoot in snow or at sea with just a screen?)
• Do you want to also use your already available lenses? (Could be a pro for EF(-S) against EF-M mount, even with adaptor)
• What focal length range is needed (with new lenses)?
• If size is the main preference, did you ever think about changing to another brand? Is this an option? (e.g. Fuji)

If you could tell us then our recommendations would become more useful to you?

 

[Snzkgb]

Hi Snzkgb!

As one of the 100D/SL1 + pancakes users you could expect my recommendation

But before that you should think and tell us more about you personal requirements and preferences.

For example:

• Do you need/want a viewfinder? (That'll be my #1 reason against an EOS M. Did you ever shoot in snow or at sea with just a screen?)
• Do you want to also use your already available lenses? (Could be a pro for EF(-S) against EF-M mount, even with adaptor)
• What focal length range is needed (with new lenses)?
• If size is the main preference, did you ever think about changing to another brand? Is this an option? (e.g. Fuji)

If you could tell us then our recommendations would become more useful to you?

Fuji make beautiful cameras, and I had X-T1 and X-T10 previously. But I want to stick to just to Canon now.
Focal length range is not a big question, I need something like 35mm, 50mm and 85mm equivalent, and it is just enough (i don't want to carry many lenses for everyday camera)
As for my existing lenses - they are too big and heavy, except maybe 16-35L f/2.8.
Viewfinder is the thing I prefer to have, but I can live without it.

 

[Maximilian]

Re: Everyday camera

Hi Snzkgb!

As one of the 100D/SL1 + pancakes users you could expect my recommendation

But before that you should think and tell us more about you personal requirements and preferences.

For example:

• Do you need/want a viewfinder? (That'll be my #1 reason against an EOS M. Did you ever shoot in snow or at sea with just a screen?)
• Do you want to also use your already available lenses? (Could be a pro for EF(-S) against EF-M mount, even with adaptor)
• What focal length range is needed (with new lenses)?
• If size is the main preference, did you ever think about changing to another brand? Is this an option? (e.g. Fuji)

If you could tell us then our recommendations would become more useful to you?

Fuji make beautiful cameras, and I had X-T1 and X-T10 previously. But I want to stick to just to Canon now.
Focal length range is not a big question, I need something like 35mm, 50mm and 85mm equivalent, and it is just enough (i don't want to carry many lenses for everyday camera)
As for my existing lenses - they are too big and heavy, except maybe 16-35L f/2.8.
Viewfinder is the thing I prefer to have, but I can live without it.

Thanks for your reply!
All this sounds pretty much like you really should take a closer look at the 100D/SL1.
I like it very much for its small size and still offering an OVF to me.
AF and Sensor performance are somewhat of a compromise (when you're used to a xxD or xD body), esp. when ISO is getting higher than 1600.
But AFAIK the sensor of the original EOS M is the same generation.
Both pancakes are really good in IQ and only the STM AF is a little bit slow.
I can take them around with me with an EF85/1.8 and a spare battery in a small bag.
Three lenses and a DSLR in a Lowepro Toploader 45 AW II is my whole setup for vacation (+ the charger in my luggage).

Have fun deciding

 

[Snzkgb]

Re: Everyday camera

Hi Snzkgb!

As one of the 100D/SL1 + pancakes users you could expect my recommendation

But before that you should think and tell us more about you personal requirements and preferences.

For example:

• Do you need/want a viewfinder? (That'll be my #1 reason against an EOS M. Did you ever shoot in snow or at sea with just a screen?)
• Do you want to also use your already available lenses? (Could be a pro for EF(-S) against EF-M mount, even with adaptor)
• What focal length range is needed (with new lenses)?
• If size is the main preference, did you ever think about changing to another brand? Is this an option? (e.g. Fuji)

If you could tell us then our recommendations would become more useful to you?

Fuji make beautiful cameras, and I had X-T1 and X-T10 previously. But I want to stick to just to Canon now.
Focal length range is not a big question, I need something like 35mm, 50mm and 85mm equivalent, and it is just enough (i don't want to carry many lenses for everyday camera)
As for my existing lenses - they are too big and heavy, except maybe 16-35L f/2.8.
Viewfinder is the thing I prefer to have, but I can live without it.

Thanks for your reply!
All this sounds pretty much like you really should take a closer look at the 100D/SL1.
I like it very much for its small size and still offering an OVF to me.
AF and Sensor performance are somewhat of a compromise (when you're used to a xxD or xD body), esp. when ISO is getting higher than 1600.
But AFAIK the sensor of the original EOS M is the same generation.
Both pancakes are really good in IQ and only the STM AF is a little bit slow.
I can take them around with me with an EF85/1.8 and a spare battery in a small bag.
Three lenses and a DSLR in a Lowepro Toploader 45 AW II is my whole setup for vacation (+ the charger in my luggage).

Have fun deciding

Thank you. It seems I should buy SL1 then.

 

[WRS]

I have to put in a recommendation for the M5. I have owned other Canon APS-C DSLR's and currently have a 1DXII and 5DSR but I was really surprised by how small the native EOS-M lenses and overall package really are. I picked up with M5 with the 18-150 and used it on a recent family trip and came away really impressed with the IQ and ease of packing it around. I will certainly be tossing it in the car with me to take back and forth to work as my everyday camera. Of course if you like to buy used the M5 isn't really much of an option at this point. Good luck with the decision!

 

[Maximilian]

I have to put in a recommendation for the M5. ...

Please note the OP first post where he stated

... And, of course, there is a price question (I buy almost always only used gear).
For example, SL1 can be found for as low as 300$ and EOS-M original can be found for 250$...

If you could offer a M5 for slightly more than the mentioned 300$ I'd be interested, too

 

[WRS]

I have to put in a recommendation for the M5. ...

Please note the OP first post where he stated

... And, of course, there is a price question (I buy almost always only used gear).
For example, SL1 can be found for as low as 300$ and EOS-M original can be found for 250$...

If you could offer a M5 for slightly more than the mentioned 300$ I'd be interested, too

Understood but then he started talking about owning Fuji mirrorless cameras so I figured what the heck, I'll toss the recommendation out there. In terms of fulfilling what he is looking for in a camera, minus the cost, it seemed to fit the best. Nothing worse than making a purchase and having regret because it still doesn't quite satisfy the need.

 

[Snzkgb]

I have to put in a recommendation for the M5. I have owned other Canon APS-C DSLR's and currently have a 1DXII and 5DSR but I was really surprised by how small the native EOS-M lenses and overall package really are. I picked up with M5 with the 18-150 and used it on a recent family trip and came away really impressed with the IQ and ease of packing it around. I will certainly be tossing it in the car with me to take back and forth to work as my everyday camera. Of course if you like to buy used the M5 isn't really much of an option at this point. Good luck with the decision!

Yes, I hear good things about M5, but it is way too expensive, especially for me. I definately thought about M3, but M3 is like 650$ used, which is too expensive for my third camera.

 

[Valvebounce]

Re: Everyday camera

Hi
I'd have to give that a +1.
Having had an M1, and now having a 100D, (at least Angela has) there is in my opinion only one area where the M wins, and that is size, and then not so much if you add the adaptor for EF-s or EF lenses, image quality is probably a draw, in every other respect it looses, it is much too slow both in focusing and shutter response, the screen is hopeless unless you are indoors in a dimly lit location, it reflected wall and ceiling lights most all the time.

Cheers, Graham.

Thank you. It seems I should buy SL1 then.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I used the M and now use the M2 as a walkaround camera. The size is just right, and the native lenses are good (most of them) to excellent (the M11-22). If you must have a viewfinder, the SL1 makes sense, but for me, I want the smallest kit with the biggest sensor, and the M (except the M5) fits that bill.

The M2 + M11-22 (or any other M lens) fits in a Lowepro Dashpoint 30 on my belt (and the M2 + M22/2 pancake fits in the Dashpoint 20). A complete M kit (body, 4 lenses, 270EX) will fit in a Think Tank Mirrorless Mover 20, which takes up less volume than my 1D X + 24-70/2.8L II. The M11-22 is by far my most-used M lens.

On space limited or family-only trips, I now take just the M kit. On trips where I'm checking a bag and will have time for photography, I take my 1D X, several lenses, and a tripod...but I still take the M2 + M11-22 (and in that case, I also take the EF mount adapter so the M2 can serve as a failure backup to the 1D X).

Some samples... The pic of the London Eye below was taken with the camera on a Gorillapod mounted on the railing of one of the Golden Jubilee Bridges over the Thames, on what was effectively an overnight trip where I didn't check a bag and brought only the M2+11-22. The Mt. Washington shot was a family trip where I brought only the M kit. The shots of the Eiffel Tower and the Louvre were from a family trip to Switzerland/Germany/France where the M kit was used on daytime outings with the family, and the 1D X was used for evening/night solo photography outings. The GBH shot was local, when I went out to test my then-new M55-200 – I think that one shows that you shouldn't underestimate what the M-series can do!

"London Eye"

EOS M2, EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM @ 20mm, 2.5 s, f/7.1, ISO 400

"Mount Washington Observatory"

EOS M2, EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM @ 22mm, 1/1000 s, f/5.6, ISO 100

"Eiffel Tower"

EOS M, EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM @ 14mm, 1/320 s, f/8, ISO 100

"A Sense of Scale"

EOS M, EF-M 11-22mm f/4-5.6 IS STM @ 11mm, 1/30 s, f/5.6, ISO 400

"Down the Hatch"

EOS M2, EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS STM @ 200mm, 1/1600 s, f/6.3, ISO 800

 

[Act444]

I use an M10 as my everyday/travel camera and it works well. But AF continues to be its Achilles heel, especially compared to DSLRs.

I had an SL1 and thought it was a great little camera. If you don't mind DSLR size I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it.

 

[slclick]

Re: Everyday camera

Hi
I'd have to give that a +1.
Having had an M1, and now having a 100D, (at least Angela has) there is in my opinion only one area where the M wins, and that is size, and then not so much if you add the adaptor for EF-s or EF lenses, image quality is probably a draw, in every other respect it looses, it is much too slow both in focusing and shutter response, the screen is hopeless unless you are indoors in a dimly lit location, it reflected wall and ceiling lights most all the time.

Cheers, Graham.

Thank you. It seems I should buy SL1 then.

Caveat...do you have large hands? I had a real issue with the SL1, I could not get comfortable with the ergonomics. Now, with an LCD based viewing body like the M series, that's not an issue but looking through a viewfinder and manipulating dials and buttons could cause you frustration. YMMV.

 

[Snzkgb]

Re: Everyday camera

Hi
I'd have to give that a +1.
Having had an M1, and now having a 100D, (at least Angela has) there is in my opinion only one area where the M wins, and that is size, and then not so much if you add the adaptor for EF-s or EF lenses, image quality is probably a draw, in every other respect it looses, it is much too slow both in focusing and shutter response, the screen is hopeless unless you are indoors in a dimly lit location, it reflected wall and ceiling lights most all the time.

Cheers, Graham.

Thank you. It seems I should buy SL1 then.

Caveat...do you have large hands? I had a real issue with the SDL1, I could not get comfortable with the ergonomics. Now, with an LCD based viewing body like the M series, that's not an issue but looking through a viewfinder and manipulating dials and buttons could cause you frustration. YMMV.

Oh yes, I have very large hands. And I heard that SL1 can be a pain to handle with such hands. Tomorrow I'll try to use one, so we'll see if this is a real problem.

 

[slclick]

Funny thing, the M5 is about the same size but the dial layout makes it much more user friendly(er) for me. Go figure.

 

[Valvebounce]

Re: Everyday camera

Hi siclick.
I have quite large hands and I found the ergonomics of the 100D easier than the M, however I much prefer a larger camera body, I briefly owned an 1100D (bought a kit to liberate a lens and some other bits) and found the size slightly better but for me a 40D or 7D is nicer to hold. Given all of that I still prefer the 100D to the M or the 1100D.

Cheers, Graham.

Hi
I'd have to give that a +1.
Having had an M1, and now having a 100D, (at least Angela has) there is in my opinion only one area where the M wins, and that is size, and then not so much if you add the adaptor for EF-s or EF lenses, image quality is probably a draw, in every other respect it looses, it is much too slow both in focusing and shutter response, the screen is hopeless unless you are indoors in a dimly lit location, it reflected wall and ceiling lights most all the time.

Cheers, Graham.

Thank you. It seems I should buy SL1 then.

Caveat...do you have large hands? I had a real issue with the SDL1, I could not get comfortable with the ergonomics. Now, with an LCD based viewing body like the M series, that's not an issue but looking through a viewfinder and manipulating dials and buttons could cause you frustration. YMMV.

 

[slclick]

Re: Everyday camera

Hi siclick.
I have quite large hands and I found the ergonomics of the 100D easier than the M, however I much prefer a larger camera body, I briefly owned an 1100D (bought a kit to liberate a lens and some other bits) and found the size slightly better but for me a 40D or 7D is nicer to hold. Given all of that I still prefer the 100D to the M or the 1100D.

Cheers, Graham.

Hi
I'd have to give that a +1.
Having had an M1, and now having a 100D, (at least Angela has) there is in my opinion only one area where the M wins, and that is size, and then not so much if you add the adaptor for EF-s or EF lenses, image quality is probably a draw, in every other respect it looses, it is much too slow both in focusing and shutter response, the screen is hopeless unless you are indoors in a dimly lit location, it reflected wall and ceiling lights most all the time.

Cheers, Graham.

Thank you. It seems I should buy SL1 then.

Caveat...do you have large hands? I had a real issue with the SDL1, I could not get comfortable with the ergonomics. Now, with an LCD based viewing body like the M series, that's not an issue but looking through a viewfinder and manipulating dials and buttons could cause you frustration. YMMV.

M5?

Very different beast than the other M models.

 

[Maximilian]

Re: Everyday camera

Hi siclick.
I have quite large hands and I found the ergonomics of the 100D easier than the M, however I much prefer a larger camera body, I briefly owned an 1100D (bought a kit to liberate a lens and some other bits) and found the size slightly better but for me a 40D or 7D is nicer to hold. Given all of that I still prefer the 100D to the M or the 1100D.

Cheers, Graham.

Hi
I'd have to give that a +1.
Having had an M1, and now having a 100D, (at least Angela has) there is in my opinion only one area where the M wins, and that is size, and then not so much if you add the adaptor for EF-s or EF lenses, image quality is probably a draw, in every other respect it looses, it is much too slow both in focusing and shutter response, the screen is hopeless unless you are indoors in a dimly lit location, it reflected wall and ceiling lights most all the time.

Cheers, Graham.

Thank you. It seems I should buy SL1 then.

Caveat...do you have large hands? I had a real issue with the SDL1, I could not get comfortable with the ergonomics. Now, with an LCD based viewing body like the M series, that's not an issue but looking through a viewfinder and manipulating dials and buttons could cause you frustration. YMMV.

Snzkgb, I suppose you should try and figure the ergonomics out in a brick and mortar store.
Of course big hands could be a problem - on both M and SL1.
I personally (glove size 9) found the ergonomics on the SL1 good and much better than on any other xxxD body.
Especially the shutter button is much closer to the center and your pointing finger doesn't have to bend that much.

If it's all about size and not viewfinder, think about a M2 because the AF should much be better than on the original M. To me this would be a dealbreaker to the M as well.

 

[Snzkgb]

Re: Everyday camera

Hi siclick.
I have quite large hands and I found the ergonomics of the 100D easier than the M, however I much prefer a larger camera body, I briefly owned an 1100D (bought a kit to liberate a lens and some other bits) and found the size slightly better but for me a 40D or 7D is nicer to hold. Given all of that I still prefer the 100D to the M or the 1100D.

Cheers, Graham.

Hi
I'd have to give that a +1.
Having had an M1, and now having a 100D, (at least Angela has) there is in my opinion only one area where the M wins, and that is size, and then not so much if you add the adaptor for EF-s or EF lenses, image quality is probably a draw, in every other respect it looses, it is much too slow both in focusing and shutter response, the screen is hopeless unless you are indoors in a dimly lit location, it reflected wall and ceiling lights most all the time.

Cheers, Graham.

Thank you. It seems I should buy SL1 then.

Caveat...do you have large hands? I had a real issue with the SDL1, I could not get comfortable with the ergonomics. Now, with an LCD based viewing body like the M series, that's not an issue but looking through a viewfinder and manipulating dials and buttons could cause you frustration. YMMV.

Snzkgb, I suppose you should try and figure the ergonomics out in a brick and mortar store.
Of course big hands could be a problem - on both M and SL1.
I personally (glove size 9) found the ergonomics on the SL1 good and much better than on any other xxxD body.
Especially the shutter button is much closer to the center and your pointing finger doesn't have to bend that much.

If it's all about size and not viewfinder, think about a M2 because the AF should much be better than on the original M. To me this would be a dealbreaker to the M as well.

I'm already aimed at SL1, and going to buy second hand one today. I appreciate the OVF anyway, so having one is good for me.

 

[FTb-n]

I've tried both the S100 and the G16 for small grab-shot cameras, but shutter delay and controls always throw me. Don't get me wrong, these are great little cameras, but I much prefer a DSLR with an optical viewfinder and controls that are more familiar to me (as in, more like the 5D3 and 1Dx). So I keep a 5D3 with a 24-105 f4 IS always at the ready for grab shots. I also keep the 70-200 f2.8 II on the 1Dx for the same reason. If I need to get the shot, I know how to do so quickly with either body. I simply don't use the PowerShots enough to get a shot quickly.

I recently purchased a Canon refurbished SL1 to be my compact grab-shot camera and so far am having a lot of fun with it. I purchased it with the kit lens because it was cheaper than the body-only, but I don't anticipate using it. I have the original 18-135 if I need a general purpose lens. One objective is to use this combo when fishing and when I didn't want to risk expensive gear in a small boat.

But, my main thought was to use the SL1 with the 24 and 40 pancakes. Knowing that this will limit range, it's okay for this type of shooting. I just wanted something small to have fun with.

To my surprise, I really like the 35 f2 IS on the SL1. I like this lens, but it just wasn't getting used enough since I tend to use the 24-70 2.8 more often on a 5D3. But, the SL1/35 f2 IS is a fun combo and fairly good in low light.