Feature update announcements coming to the Canon EOS R and Canon Cinema EOS C200 ahead of NAB

crazyrunner33

EOS RP
Nov 4, 2011
306
125
Yet they unfortunately put an SDI connector on the C200 that is not capable of handling a RAW stream, or even 4k. It has a nice 422 10 bit 2k though.

Wow! They used a 20 year old 3G SDI and didn't think to put 4 ports to support 4k(or a modern 12g SDI port).
 

transpo1

EOS RP
Jan 12, 2011
758
104
I'll admit I was disappointed when the R was released with a heavy crop for 4k video. But in the time that it has been out a lot of professional cinematographers have given it praise. The 4k footage is solid and grades very well. The A7 III may be FF 4k but its bitrate is...dare I say it...crippled by comparison to the R. And now the R is adding external RAW? Cinematographers are going to love it. And yes, they will rig an external recorder (which they normally do any way) and deal with a 1.8x crop (which is a small crop from S35) to get RAW footage.

Honestly, having watched a number of reviews and sample short films, I think the X-T3 is the real competition. Very sharp 4k straight ooc. 400 Mbps. And if you don't want to grade footage, the Eterna profile. I've seen good R footage and poor R footage (with that crop lens sharpness is very important to getting the most out of it). I've seen good A73 footage and poor A73 footage (it can literally fall apart with a heavy grade). But the X-T3? I haven't seen anything but excellent 4k footage off that camera. And 4k60p slowed down to 24p has a really nice effect.

It's funny because when the R dropped I thought "no FF 4k? Looks like I'll buy an A73 soon." But I've waited and I'm glad I waited because at this point the A73 is dead last on my wish list. If I get a cinema camera it's going to be the X-T3 or the R.

I agree that the EOS R footage has a nice, soft, filmic look to it. And I suspect many DPs will be tempted into trying it simply because you can have that Canon color.

Once they come out with an EOS-R model with FF or APS-H and higher frame rates, I may be tempted once again into buying a Canon body. Until then, you’re right— the X-T3 is solid competition.

I should note, however, that almost all video folks I see at the one man band DP level are using Sony A7 series cameras.

We’ll see if Canon can excite the film world with an RF lens mode Cinema EOS models, which should be interesting.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2011
16,668
1,625
No firmware update for 5DIV ?
What is broken? Canon is adding some features to the new model mirrorless that were likely planned for inclusion or requested by big budget organizations that spend $$$$$$ on cameras. Canon is working on the 5D MK IV replacement and will not add features at this point. They have already publically announced pulling people from R&D to be able to ramp up mirrorless products.
 
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bsbeamer

EOS RP
Nov 5, 2011
302
33
The one "feature" that should be added to 5D4 and R is better intervalometer "output" settings for timelapse movie. 4K video (even with crop) is not available on 5D4, let alone an option for full sensor timelapse (unless using an external trigger that basically fully engages shutter and LCD with every shot). My understanding is the R is almost exactly the same, but does offer 4K with crop. It's 2019 and basically still "better" to take a bunch of stills and assemble them in post.

(Doubtful this will be addressed in any future firmware updates.)
 

shutterlag

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 5, 2013
64
6
Canon is really ramping their game up. I keep fighting the urge to buy an EOS R, but these video specs are making it tough...

Frankly I don't see that at all. I suppose they're ramping up their game compared to themselves. Compared to the competition? They're horrifically bad. Just take the most recent examples - the RP vs. X-T3, both costing $1300. Even though the hardware can do it, Canon disabled dp-af in 4k. They also remove 24p, even in regular HD. It is a $1300 body that is basically unusable for video. Contrast that with the X-T3, where every possible setting and mode, every nuanced control is available, and log is included. Lookng at Photons to Photos, the DR is only ~0.5EV different, even though the Fuji is a crop, and that's because Canon put a 3 year old sensor in the RP.

I miss using Canon gear, and I obviously follow their news. I wish they would stop this horrific self competition. Gimping your product line in the hopes that it will force customers to buy your more expensive gear is a self-defeating business model. If they hadn't broken 4K on the RP, I would have ordered one already. Instead? Fuji gets my business because Canon products are now blatantly and inexcusably inferior tools. The sad part is, they're not inferior because of hardware or design - they're inferior because of their idiotic business practices. Sigh.
 
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HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
710
166
I'm not a video guy but would someone explain why external RAW is a big feature?


--

The specific reason for RAW IMAGERY is colour grading (i.e. colour correction) and luminance recovery (turn dark shots brighter!). With raw imagery at a specific bit-width be it 24-bit RGB/YCbCr (8 bits per colour channel), 30-bit colour (10 bits per colour channel) or even 48-bit colour (16-bits per channel) allows you more headroom to change the mix of the individual colour Red, Green and Blue colour channels OR the YCbCr mix of Luminance (Y or Overall Image Brightness), Chroma Blue (Blue-to-Cyan range) and Chroma Red (Red-to-Magenta) range of colours.

RAW simply means that no major digital signal processing or compression has been applied to the footage. It means it's TRULY the Camera Original video stream coming from the chip unchanged. That allows you LOTS of headroom to make huge changes in colour and brightness specifically to Shadows, midtones and Highlights without affect OTHER parts of an image. This allows to change your footage to whatever Hollywood Cinema-look you so desire without introducing extra noise, compression artifacts, banding, etc.

The Colour Timer (i.e. the person actually DOING the colour grading/colour correction) will be discussing with the Director in a collaborative effort to determine and finalize HOW the edited master images should look colour-wise and brightness wise. This changing of the "Look" of your imagery has affects on the "Overall Mood" of a film.

Why do you think SOOOO MANY Hollywood films have that Orange and Teal (cyan) look to them! Orange is a warm, sunny, bright "mood" while Teal is part of cold, hard, mean, or action moods. So the BEST WAY to ensure your video looks great, is to SHOOT RAW preferably at the highest bit rate per colour channel that your camera supports. For Canon, that would be 12 bits or 14-bits per channel so you can get TRULY HDR (High Dynamic Range) images for final broadcast. AND when you use the larger bit-depths, it also means that when broadcast at 8-bits per channel on 1080p Netflix, your images won't be so "Badly Damaged" by the video colour compression and MPEG4/H264/H265 video stream conversion process.

You Shoot, Edit, Master and Render at the HIGHEST QUALITY IMAGE FORMAT POSSIBLE (i.e. RAW) so you can preserve the "Nutritional Value" of the final imagery as it goes through the "Cooking Process" of modern video compression and video streaming systems. So RAW on a Canon R series is a VERY BIG DEAL for videographers and filmmakers!

.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,742
1,305
That's quite funny as the EOS R has pretty bad 4K or should I say more like 2.5K at best. It's trounced by APS-C cameras.

No, it has some pretty bad reviewers who are trashing it. Potato Jet did a YouTube review with Armando and the R held its own rather well against the A73. They did blow up comparisons of individual frames and while the A73 was sharper/more detailed, it was by such a small amount that it would be easy to miss under normal viewing conditions. It should be noted that Armando added an R to his arsenal after their collaboration.

Given the heavy crop lens sharpness plays a much larger role in the R's 4k footage, and I suspect the people getting soft or bad footage simply aren't using glass that's up to the challenge.

Potato Jet's Review: https://youtu.be/bwZ9tCcGNFw
Armando's Review: https://youtu.be/jL7YojU2LFE
 
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PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
CR Pro
Aug 15, 2014
2,123
825
Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
No, it has some pretty bad reviewers who are trashing it. Potato Jet did a YouTube review with Armando and the R held its own rather well against the A73. They did blow up comparisons of individual frames and while the A73 was sharper/more detailed, it was by such a small amount that it would be easy to miss under normal viewing conditions. It should be noted that Armando added an R to his arsenal after their collaboration.

Given the heavy crop lens sharpness plays a much larger role in the R's 4k footage, and I suspect the people getting soft or bad footage simply aren't using glass that's up to the challenge.

Potato Jet's Review: https://youtu.be/bwZ9tCcGNFw
Armando's Review: https://youtu.be/jL7YojU2LFE

Exactly the review I was going to cite, which I thought was very fair. To say the 4k on the EOS is "horrible" is just nonsense. Even if it a hair less sharp when pixel peeping, who cares because it looks so much more attractive than Sony's offerings which you have to have a heavier hand in post production to manipulate and grade. Plus the battery life and overall durability, the Canon glass library etc...
 

Mr Majestyk

EOS RP
Feb 20, 2016
419
276
Australia
No, it has some pretty bad reviewers who are trashing it. Potato Jet did a YouTube review with Armando and the R held its own rather well against the A73. They did blow up comparisons of individual frames and while the A73 was sharper/more detailed, it was by such a small amount that it would be easy to miss under normal viewing conditions. It should be noted that Armando added an R to his arsenal after their collaboration.

Given the heavy crop lens sharpness plays a much larger role in the R's 4k footage, and I suspect the people getting soft or bad footage simply aren't using glass that's up to the challenge.

Potato Jet's Review: https://youtu.be/bwZ9tCcGNFw
Armando's Review: https://youtu.be/jL7YojU2LFE

Never heard of potato jet, but the resolution is just not anywhere near 4K. Heavy crop, strong AA filter, video was soundly beaten by A7III, Z6 and GH5 and the resolution looks like 1440p not 2160p. Until they can offer a sensor with good read speed, they'll be stuck with this massive crop. I could live with the crop if the video was captured as 6K and then resampled to 4K delivering a superior super 35 option.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,742
1,305
Never heard of potato jet, but the resolution is just not anywhere near 4K.

A provably false statement. Go watch their videos. In their side-by-side scene comparisons I paused and studied nearly every frame. With one pair it looks like they made a mistake when processing the R side. With another the Sony was visibly sharper with more detail at normal view size on a 4k monitor, though the gap was small. With all the rest the sharpness/detail was comparable.

With the scene they chose to magnify the A73 was better under magnification, but by such a small amount it was one of the scenes that looked comparable to me at normal size.

If they can get good footage out of the R then the R is not a bad camera nor is its resolution "...like 1440p."
 
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tmc784

Just press down the shutter.
Apr 1, 2018
84
24
What is broken? Canon is adding some features to the new model mirrorless that were likely planned for inclusion or requested by big budget organizations that spend $$$$$$ on cameras. Canon is working on the 5D MK IV replacement and will not add features at this point. They have already publically announced pulling people from R&D to be able to ramp up mirrorless products.
Yeah , it could be $5,000.00 up for body only. Can't afford.
 

shutterlag

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 5, 2013
64
6
No, it has some pretty bad reviewers who are trashing it. Potato Jet did a YouTube review with Armando and the R held its own rather well against the A73. They did blow up comparisons of individual frames and while the A73 was sharper/more detailed, it was by such a small amount that it would be easy to miss under normal viewing conditions. It should be noted that Armando added an R to his arsenal after their collaboration.

Given the heavy crop lens sharpness plays a much larger role in the R's 4k footage, and I suspect the people getting soft or bad footage simply aren't using glass that's up to the challenge.

Potato Jet's Review: https://youtu.be/bwZ9tCcGNFw
Armando's Review: https://youtu.be/jL7YojU2LFE

The footage from the X-T3 is better than the R when you use f-log - I rented them both. It's not even a fair comparison though. Really the $1300 RP vs. the X-T3 is fair, and the RP doesn't even have 4k video. You also appear to minimize the crop factor - that's a big deal - a REALLY BIG DEAL, at least to most people. I mean, when you spend that much $$$$ on a body to have a FF sensor, and it's so weak it can't even use it? /facepalm
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
1,237
1,294
What is broken? Canon is adding some features to the new model mirrorless that were likely planned for inclusion or requested by big budget organizations that spend $$$$$$ on cameras. Canon is working on the 5D MK IV replacement and will not add features at this point. They have already publically announced pulling people from R&D to be able to ramp up mirrorless products.
What MUST be added, , when set on "manual", is a much longer exposure measuring time (currently about 6 sec.).
Also a possibility, when using a TSE lens, to permanently display the electronic level in the OVF.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,742
1,305
You also appear to minimize the crop factor - that's a big deal - a REALLY BIG DEAL, at least to most people.

Most people who debate spec sheets but have never shot a video in their lives? Or most cinematographers? Because the professional cinematographers don't seem to care much.

A wedding photographer who wants to mix in video using the same camera would likely be the most disappointed in the crop factor due to the focal length change.
 

PerKr

EOS 90D
Jul 11, 2018
131
133
Sverige
The footage from the X-T3 is better than the R when you use f-log - I rented them both. It's not even a fair comparison though. Really the $1300 RP vs. the X-T3 is fair, and the RP doesn't even have 4k video. You also appear to minimize the crop factor - that's a big deal - a REALLY BIG DEAL, at least to most people. I mean, when you spend that much $$$$ on a body to have a FF sensor, and it's so weak it can't even use it? /facepalm

Because everyone buys a camera with a FF sensor solely to create videos. Realistically, videography seems to be an even smaller niche than photography. But why go on here whining about it? If you really need great video, go find the best equipment you can afford for your video rig. Seriously doubt the equipment is what's holding you back though.