Firmware: Canon EOS 5D Mark IV 1.02

[atlcroc]

Neuro,
Thanks for your answer. Actually you are one of my favorites to read for advice since not only do you seem very knowledgeable but have a great sense of humor. You were also the one I hoped would reply to my question. Since I cannot start a new topic, I'll put it here and the moderators can move it. I'm looking at upgrading to the 5 D Mark IV and am thinking of switching to using DNG over the ACR raw format so I can use some of my current software. In my tests of comparing DNG to RAW with my current software, I cannot see any real differences in quality at 100% on a 2 K monitor nor on my AVCHD discs in a sample. What would I be losing if I went to a DNG format instead of the usual raw?

Thanks again for your response and all of the help I've found from your answers over the years.

 

[Loswr]

Neuro,
Thanks for your answer. Actually you are one of my favorites to read for advice since not only do you seem very knowledgeable but have a great sense of humor. You were also the one I hoped would reply to my question. Since I cannot start a new topic, I'll put it here and the moderators can move it. I'm looking at upgrading to the 5 D Mark IV and am thinking of switching to using DNG over the ACR raw format so I can use some of my current software. In my tests of comparing DNG to RAW with my current software, I cannot see any real differences in quality at 100% on a 2 K monitor nor on my AVCHD discs in a sample. What would I be losing if I went to a DNG format instead of the usual raw?

Thanks again for your response and all of the help I've found from your answers over the years.

My pleasure. Given that your 'status' (the camera under your name) just changed frmo Canonflex to SX60 HS, I suspect you can now start a new topic for your question.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

New Members should browse the topics on the site information forum. The answer is in the very first topic.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=26461.0

 

[atlcroc]

Thanks for your help. I had used the search button but did not find that information. Looks like I will have to just start responding a lot to get permission to ask a question. I have looked at this site almost daily for over 5 years and just now need to ask for help. I think it's an iffy policy, but as a new poster will have to follow the rules.

Thanks again for the link.

 

[tron]

I'm not sure if it was my playing around under the hood to tweak the JPEGs or the firmware update, but they suddenly look a lot better.


Less smoothing and more goodness.

what were the lenses and settings

In general or for these particular shots?

in general sir

Well, lots of lenses from pretty much everyone. I'm using the Fine Detail picture setting, with the Sharpness strength at 7, Fineness at 3, Threshold at 1, and then I've added 1 on Saturation. I have pretty much all of the corrections (NR, etc...) off. End results are now very good.

Here's a few other samples from yesterday (taken with the Tamron 85 VC)

Dustin, are you using these settings in Picture Style for all of the pictures you are taking with the 5D4? RAW and JPEG?

This is now my default setup in the 5D Mark IV.

Dustin, as a 5D3 owner I am interested but at the same time have some doubts. Can you please clarify the following:

How about a comparison of 2 similar raw shots one from a previous FF - If I recall correctly you have 6D - and one from 5D4 using DPP? It does not have to be a new one just a check of one of more previous photos with DPP. Do they need the same amount of sharpening or 5D4 needs much more? I understand that this is not very scientific but I can't think of any other sharpness comparison test for now...

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

I'm not sure if it was my playing around under the hood to tweak the JPEGs or the firmware update, but they suddenly look a lot better.


Less smoothing and more goodness.

what were the lenses and settings

In general or for these particular shots?

in general sir

Well, lots of lenses from pretty much everyone. I'm using the Fine Detail picture setting, with the Sharpness strength at 7, Fineness at 3, Threshold at 1, and then I've added 1 on Saturation. I have pretty much all of the corrections (NR, etc...) off. End results are now very good.

Here's a few other samples from yesterday (taken with the Tamron 85 VC)

Dustin, are you using these settings in Picture Style for all of the pictures you are taking with the 5D4? RAW and JPEG?

This is now my default setup in the 5D Mark IV.

Dustin, as a 5D3 owner I am interested but at the same time have some doubts. Can you please clarify the following:

How about a comparison of 2 similar raw shots one from a previous FF - If I recall correctly you have 6D - and one from 5D4 using DPP? It does not have to be a new one just a check of one of more previous photos with DPP. Do they need the same amount of sharpening or 5D4 needs much more? I understand that this is not very scientific but I can't think of any other sharpness comparison test for now...

My comments are more of a general observation that I find that the files can take/require more sharpening. I don't know if this is due to the AA filter being more aggressive on the 5D4, or having more pixels than the 6D, but....

Here's a progression of a set of images that I shot for my dynamic range comparison (http://bit.ly/2dB2W6f). Identical settings, tripod mounted, Live View Focused.

In the first image crop there is no sharpening applied. 6D image looks a bit sharper at native pixel level.
In the second image a LR level of 75 sharpening added. 6D image looks a bit sharper at native pixel level.
"""" Level of 100: Sharpness for 5D4 is improved.
5D4 Image downsampled to 6D Image size - 5D4 sharpening looks natural, while 6D looks a bit oversharpened.
Level of halos lower for 5D Mark IV.

 

[tron]

I'm not sure if it was my playing around under the hood to tweak the JPEGs or the firmware update, but they suddenly look a lot better.


Less smoothing and more goodness.

what were the lenses and settings

In general or for these particular shots?

in general sir

Well, lots of lenses from pretty much everyone. I'm using the Fine Detail picture setting, with the Sharpness strength at 7, Fineness at 3, Threshold at 1, and then I've added 1 on Saturation. I have pretty much all of the corrections (NR, etc...) off. End results are now very good.

Here's a few other samples from yesterday (taken with the Tamron 85 VC)

Dustin, are you using these settings in Picture Style for all of the pictures you are taking with the 5D4? RAW and JPEG?

This is now my default setup in the 5D Mark IV.

Dustin, as a 5D3 owner I am interested but at the same time have some doubts. Can you please clarify the following:

How about a comparison of 2 similar raw shots one from a previous FF - If I recall correctly you have 6D - and one from 5D4 using DPP? It does not have to be a new one just a check of one of more previous photos with DPP. Do they need the same amount of sharpening or 5D4 needs much more? I understand that this is not very scientific but I can't think of any other sharpness comparison test for now...

My comments are more of a general observation that I find that the files can take/require more sharpening. I don't know if this is due to the AA filter being more aggressive on the 5D4, or having more pixels than the 6D, but....

Here's a progression of a set of images that I shot for my dynamic range comparison (http://bit.ly/2dB2W6f). Identical settings, tripod mounted, Live View Focused.

In the first image crop there is no sharpening applied. 6D image looks a bit sharper at native pixel level.
In the second image a LR level of 75 sharpening added. 6D image looks a bit sharper at native pixel level.
"""" Level of 100: Sharpness for 5D4 is improved.
5D4 Image downsampled to 6D Image size - 5D4 sharpening looks natural, while 6D looks a bit oversharpened.
Level of halos lower for 5D Mark IV.

Dustin MANY THANKS for your detailed analysis and quick response.

 

[TWI by Dustin Abbott]

I'm not sure if it was my playing around under the hood to tweak the JPEGs or the firmware update, but they suddenly look a lot better.


Less smoothing and more goodness.

what were the lenses and settings

In general or for these particular shots?

in general sir

Well, lots of lenses from pretty much everyone. I'm using the Fine Detail picture setting, with the Sharpness strength at 7, Fineness at 3, Threshold at 1, and then I've added 1 on Saturation. I have pretty much all of the corrections (NR, etc...) off. End results are now very good.

Here's a few other samples from yesterday (taken with the Tamron 85 VC)

Dustin, are you using these settings in Picture Style for all of the pictures you are taking with the 5D4? RAW and JPEG?

This is now my default setup in the 5D Mark IV.

Dustin, as a 5D3 owner I am interested but at the same time have some doubts. Can you please clarify the following:

How about a comparison of 2 similar raw shots one from a previous FF - If I recall correctly you have 6D - and one from 5D4 using DPP? It does not have to be a new one just a check of one of more previous photos with DPP. Do they need the same amount of sharpening or 5D4 needs much more? I understand that this is not very scientific but I can't think of any other sharpness comparison test for now...

My comments are more of a general observation that I find that the files can take/require more sharpening. I don't know if this is due to the AA filter being more aggressive on the 5D4, or having more pixels than the 6D, but....

Here's a progression of a set of images that I shot for my dynamic range comparison (http://bit.ly/2dB2W6f). Identical settings, tripod mounted, Live View Focused.

In the first image crop there is no sharpening applied. 6D image looks a bit sharper at native pixel level.
In the second image a LR level of 75 sharpening added. 6D image looks a bit sharper at native pixel level.
"""" Level of 100: Sharpness for 5D4 is improved.
5D4 Image downsampled to 6D Image size - 5D4 sharpening looks natural, while 6D looks a bit oversharpened.
Level of halos lower for 5D Mark IV.

The 6D pics look better. I have yet to see an example where the 5D IV outshines other Canon cameras on IQ. Seems like for FF on the cheap, the 6D is still a very valid camera.

There are a few areas of strength for the 5DIV (dynamic range being a notable one), and having more pixels to work with is very useful, but as a whole, I'd agree with you. The truth was that I was never disappointed with the IQ from the 6D in any way (I was disappointed that it was BETTER than the 5D3, which made no sense then or now), so what I'm happy about is that I now have similar (slightly better in some ways) image quality with a feature set that combines most all of my favorite features in one body.

 

[drs]

After a long search, even this firm-ware update leaves the AEB auto exposure bracketing at three images.
The weird hdr merge in camera is certainly nice for beginners, but a camera in this price-class should do better.

Waiting for the next firmware update. Sad story for sure. Or change brand ;-)

 

[tron]

After a long search, even this firm-ware update leaves the AEB auto exposure bracketing at three images.
The weird hdr merge in camera is certainly nice for beginners, but a camera in this price-class should do better.

Waiting for the next firmware update. Sad story for sure. Or change brand ;-)

Change brand. Or brain, because AEB can be configured in 2, 3, 5 or 7 not only only on 5DIV (since the original firmware) but on 5DIII as well :

The in-camera HDR functionality (which relies on 3 shots) isn't the best way to make HDR anyway.