Focus problems with the Canon 7DII?

[East Wind Photography]

Turning off MFA when shooting at a ruler seemed to correct focusing with very wide apertures on a non-moving subject.

So this morning, I went out to redo my servo sports test, with a different BRAND NEW Canon 7Dii, same lens 24-70 2.8 (which I know is working on my 5Diii).

More soft focusing.

Im upset about this, thats 2 Canon 7Dii Bodies in a row. Ill have access to two more later this week. Ive taken a couple thousand shots with 2 different 7Diis, about 90% or so are no good.

This is what it looks like:

That is definitely front focusing. Was this with the AFMA disabled? 20-70 2.8 mark 1 or 2? If its the mark2 model I ended up returning the lens. The AF was not consistent. If I AFMA at 8-10 ft it would not focus at infinity. If I AFMA'd for infinity then any shots up close like you would take for a small group of people were out of focus. I know you say it worked on the 5D3 but I think the AF is bit more touchy on the crop cameras. The 1.6 magnifies all errors, even focus.

 

[Ryan85]

Wow that does look pretty bad. Was the first one that bad? Are you using back button focus? First thing I'd do is make sure your lens is on auto focus. You could of bumped it to manual focus and not realized it. I always check the stuff like that first. What focus mode is the camera on zone, etc? I would change the focus mode to single point and see if that makes a difference so you know it's just not one focus mode. It's weird it would be like that with 2 cameras in a row.

 

[MichaelTheMaven]

So background info, I do a lot of head-to-head camera testing for my youtube channel, Ive done this many, many times, most recently with my 5Diii vs D750, no issues. My main lens is a 24-70 2.8 v2, but I have a V1, and my Dad has a V1 as well. Ran into issues with both BRAND NEW out of the box 7Dii's.

Yes MFA is disabled. Shooting on AI Servo, Single Square, Full High Speed Burst- 10 FPS, Av mode at 2.8, shutter speeds are usually over 1/1000, sometimes all the way up to 1/8000 depending on light. Like I said, this isn't new to me.

Results on the 7Dii's looked as per the image posted, almost all of them, unless the subject is very close. I also did a side-to-side test, both cameras missed nearly all of them.

Tonight I thought it might be the v2 lens, so I grabbed mine and my Dads v1 (24-70 2.8 v1), his 70d and my old 7D. For some tests.

Both 7Dii's consistently missed with all three lenses.

The v2 and my Dad's v1 works GREAT on my 7D and sufficiently good on the 70D, though there were some misses.

If the V2 is working on other cameras, and not any of my 7Diis, Im coming to the conclusion there could be some focusing problems with the 7Dii itself. Maybe not all of them, but the 7D whopped both of them tonight in terms of focusing accuracy with the same lenses they were using.

Ill have to return both of them and I am hoping their replacements will be better.

Just my opinion, if someone spends $1800 on a camera, it should be working right out of the box.

The requirement to have to Micro Adjust a Brand new body, to me, seems crazy.

Ill keep you guys posted, should have the next body in on Tuesday or Wednesday.

 

[Loswr]

So background info, I do a lot of head-to-head camera testing for my youtube channel, Ive done this many, many times, most recently with my 5Diii vs D750, no issues. My main lens is a 24-70 2.8 v2, but I have a V1, and my Dad has a V1 as well. Ran into issues with both BRAND NEW out of the box 7Dii's.

Yes MFA is disabled. Shooting on AI Servo, Single Square, Full High Speed Burst- 10 FPS, Av mode at 2.8, shutter speeds are usually over 1/1000, sometimes all the way up to 1/8000 depending on light. Like I said, this isn't new to me.

Results on the 7Dii's looked as per the image posted, almost all of them, unless the subject is very close. I also did a side-to-side test, both cameras missed nearly all of them.

Tonight I thought it might be the v2 lens, so I grabbed mine and my Dads v1 (24-70 2.8 v1), his 70d and my old 7D. For some tests.

Both 7Dii's consistently missed with all three lenses.

The v2 and my Dad's v1 works GREAT on my 7D and sufficiently good on the 70D, though there were some misses.

If the V2 is working on other cameras, and not any of my 7Diis, Im coming to the conclusion there could be some focusing problems with the 7Dii itself. Maybe not all of them, but the 7D whopped both of them tonight in terms of focusing accuracy with the same lenses they were using.

Ill have to return both of them and I am hoping their replacements will be better.

Just my opinion, if someone spends $1800 on a camera, it should be working right out of the box.

The requirement to have to Micro Adjust a Brand new body, to me, seems crazy.

Ill keep you guys posted, should have the next body in on Tuesday or Wednesday.

I've highlighted the most likely source if the problem.

Which is more crazy...doing a proper AFMA with the new body, or exchanging a new camera 4 or more times until you happen across one that's a perfect match to your lens? Egad, what if you have more than one lens, and they're off from each other? What if you buy a new lens? Oh, I know...keep exchanging copies until you find one that matches your body. Nothing crazy about that...

 

[East Wind Photography]

So background info, I do a lot of head-to-head camera testing for my youtube channel, Ive done this many, many times, most recently with my 5Diii vs D750, no issues. My main lens is a 24-70 2.8 v2, but I have a V1, and my Dad has a V1 as well. Ran into issues with both BRAND NEW out of the box 7Dii's.

Yes MFA is disabled. Shooting on AI Servo, Single Square, Full High Speed Burst- 10 FPS, Av mode at 2.8, shutter speeds are usually over 1/1000, sometimes all the way up to 1/8000 depending on light. Like I said, this isn't new to me.

Results on the 7Dii's looked as per the image posted, almost all of them, unless the subject is very close. I also did a side-to-side test, both cameras missed nearly all of them.

Tonight I thought it might be the v2 lens, so I grabbed mine and my Dads v1 (24-70 2.8 v1), his 70d and my old 7D. For some tests.

Both 7Dii's consistently missed with all three lenses.

The v2 and my Dad's v1 works GREAT on my 7D and sufficiently good on the 70D, though there were some misses.

If the V2 is working on other cameras, and not any of my 7Diis, Im coming to the conclusion there could be some focusing problems with the 7Dii itself. Maybe not all of them, but the 7D whopped both of them tonight in terms of focusing accuracy with the same lenses they were using.

Ill have to return both of them and I am hoping their replacements will be better.

Just my opinion, if someone spends $1800 on a camera, it should be working right out of the box.

The requirement to have to Micro Adjust a Brand new body, to me, seems crazy.

Ill keep you guys posted, should have the next body in on Tuesday or Wednesday.

I've highlighted the most likely source if the problem.

Which is more crazy...doing a proper AFMA with the new body, or exchanging a new camera 4 or more times until you happen across one that's a perfect match to your lens? Egad, what if you have more than one lens, and they're off from each other? What if you buy a new lens? Oh, I know...keep exchanging copies until you find one that matches your body. Nothing crazy about that...

Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.

 

[Loswr]

Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.

Invalid tests? But...but...he does a lot of testing for his YouTube channel. If that doesn't make him an expert, what does??

 

[rpt]

Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.

Invalid tests? But...but...he does a lot of testing for his YouTube channel. If that doesn't make him an expert, what does??

I guess you could hold it as a P&S and shoot in live view mode...

 

[RodS57]

Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.

Invalid tests? But...but...he does a lot of testing for his YouTube channel. If that doesn't make him an expert, what does??

Without taking pot shots at Michael
I think it is reasonable to expect a new camera to be calibrated correctly;
I believe there will be copy variation but what does canon need to do to minimize this variation.
I think, based on the posts I've read that there may be a surprisingly high percentage of 7D2's coming off the assembly line with defects.
And yes, I understand that six people with problems usually make a lot more noise than 100 people without problems. In any forum it is virtually impossible to gauge the real extend of the problem but I believe a problem does exist.

For me, this is the only body I have that gives the option to do AFMA. I like having the ability to do these adjustments. So far all these 'can't focus correctly' posts have left me in sort of a state of confusion. Before, if the shot was bad then I screwed up. Now I can blame it on the crappy 7D2

Rod

 

[Loswr]

Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.

Invalid tests? But...but...he does a lot of testing for his YouTube channel. If that doesn't make him an expert, what does??

Without taking pot shots at Michael
I think it is reasonable to expect a new camera to be calibrated correctly;
I believe there will be copy variation but what does canon need to do to minimize this variation.

'I do this all the time and post it on the Internet' doesn't make someone an expert, or even necessarily particularly knowledgable. YouTube for Dummies is available on Amazon and in bookstores for less than $20.

As for it being 'perfect out of the box', for years professional photographers would send their entire SLR+lens collection into Canon for them to be calibrated against each other for best focus, and that calibration service was, in part, how Canon Professional Services came into being. It's worth noting that 35mm film is a lot more forgiving of minor AF errors than current dSLR sensors.

I think, based on the posts I've read that there may be a surprisingly high percentage of 7D2's coming off the assembly line with defects.
And yes, I understand that six people with problems usually make a lot more noise than 100 people without problems. In any forum it is virtually impossible to gauge the real extend of the problem but I believe a problem does exist.

The same things were said after the release of the 70D, but evidently not as there was no Product Advisory from Canon. Time will tell but as with the 70D, we're most likely looking at a combination of a few defective units (which is the norm) and user error. Someone who is consistently getting front-focused shots but refuses to do AFMA falls into the user error category. 'The same lens works fine on other cameras' simply suggests a lack of understanding of AFMA and why it's necessary.

 

[candc]

So background info, I do a lot of head-to-head camera testing for my youtube channel, Ive done this many, many times, most recently with my 5Diii vs D750, no issues. My main lens is a 24-70 2.8 v2, but I have a V1, and my Dad has a V1 as well. Ran into issues with both BRAND NEW out of the box 7Dii's.

Yes MFA is disabled. Shooting on AI Servo, Single Square, Full High Speed Burst- 10 FPS, Av mode at 2.8, shutter speeds are usually over 1/1000, sometimes all the way up to 1/8000 depending on light. Like I said, this isn't new to me.

Results on the 7Dii's looked as per the image posted, almost all of them, unless the subject is very close. I also did a side-to-side test, both cameras missed nearly all of them.

Tonight I thought it might be the v2 lens, so I grabbed mine and my Dads v1 (24-70 2.8 v1), his 70d and my old 7D. For some tests.

Both 7Dii's consistently missed with all three lenses.

The v2 and my Dad's v1 works GREAT on my 7D and sufficiently good on the 70D, though there were some misses.

If the V2 is working on other cameras, and not any of my 7Diis, Im coming to the conclusion there could be some focusing problems with the 7Dii itself. Maybe not all of them, but the 7D whopped both of them tonight in terms of focusing accuracy with the same lenses they were using.

Ill have to return both of them and I am hoping their replacements will be better.

Just my opinion, if someone spends $1800 on a camera, it should be working right out of the box.

The requirement to have to Micro Adjust a Brand new body, to me, seems crazy.

Ill keep you guys posted, should have the next body in on Tuesday or Wednesday.

this does seem odd. are you customizing the camera before you use it? it is probably something simple that you are overlooking and when you realize what it is then it will seem obvious. i would reset the camera to default and try some one shot tests to see if the camera is focusing where it is supposed to. there was no exif data in the photo you posted. take a look at your photos exif and see what the subject distance is. it looks like your photo is focused at mfd for some reason. the 7dii has a great af system and should have no problem with what you are shooting. the photo below is a gull flying straight at me shot at 420 f/4 normally i stop down to f/8 to get more dof but i was doing this for testing to see how the camera would do and its incredible at keeping up with what you are shooting. you can see that the dof is pretty shallow but the birds beak and face is in focus. the cameras af consistently performs this way.

it just seems unlikely that you would get 2 cameras with some kind of major af malfunction like that.

 

[MichaelTheMaven]

So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?

As a long-time Canon user, I have never had to MFA any the Nikons Ive tested (nor Canons), nor would ever do so with any brand new camera for testing because that MFA would not be the same experience new camera owners would have out of the box. Probably something you didn't think of.

So what do you guys do for a living? Just curious.

 

[MichaelTheMaven]

I wasn't actually asking for help, I was trying to offer some information about my personal experience with the 7Dii's focusing issues, in case anyone else was having the same problem and once I find out what is going on, that information might be helpful to them.

 

[candc]

So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?

As a long-time Canon user, I have never had to MFA any the Nikons Ive tested (nor Canons), nor would ever do so with any brand new camera for testing because that MFA would not be the same experience new camera owners would have out of the box. Probably something you didn't think of.

So what do you guys do for a living? Just curious.

afma is supposed to correct for minor tolerance mismatches between the camera body and lens. your are not AFMAing the camera, you are matching the camera to the lens and most of the time it only needed for minor errors. there is something else going on with your setup i think. i would do a reset and try some simple test shots to see whats going on.

 

[East Wind Photography]

Wow if he never AFMA'd the cameras he was testing I guess that pretty much invalidates the tests.

Invalid tests? But...but...he does a lot of testing for his YouTube channel. If that doesn't make him an expert, what does??

Without taking pot shots at Michael
I think it is reasonable to expect a new camera to be calibrated correctly;
I believe there will be copy variation but what does canon need to do to minimize this variation.
I think, based on the posts I've read that there may be a surprisingly high percentage of 7D2's coming off the assembly line with defects.
And yes, I understand that six people with problems usually make a lot more noise than 100 people without problems. In any forum it is virtually impossible to gauge the real extend of the problem but I believe a problem does exist.

For me, this is the only body I have that gives the option to do AFMA. I like having the ability to do these adjustments. So far all these 'can't focus correctly' posts have left me in sort of a state of confusion. Before, if the shot was bad then I screwed up. Now I can blame it on the crappy 7D2

Rod

Rod it is true that most of the consumer level cameras do not have AFMA adjustment up to and including the 60D. The 70D replacement included this capability due to consumer pressure. All of the pro and semi pro cameras have this feature. I have friends that have consumer cameras and dont know their equipment is off. They just assume the lens quality is bad or worse just assume it's sharp not knowing any better and proceed to over sharpen on their computer.

The thing about AFMA is that if you use a higher F-stop you can mask the error and some people just assume that their lens works better at F8 and F11.

I dont have one single lens both old and new that have the same AFMA setting. A difference of 2 or 3 points wide open (especially with fast lenses) can make a huge difference in sharpness and more so with a crop sensor since the error is also magnified.

So for anyone to say that it should come sharp from the factory is just not possible unless the factory has AFMA or mechanically adjusted the camera to the EXACT same lens before shipping it. In the old days or with consumer cameras today, you have to send both the camera and lens to Canon and have them match them up, or all of your lenses to the same camera. AFMA lets us do it any time we need to.

Not to say that Canon should not be calibrating to some reference lens on the assembly line, but it's not reasonable to expect a factory camera to be dead on with every lens out there.

 

[rpt]

I wasn't actually asking for help, I was trying to offer some information about my personal experience with the 7Dii's focusing issues, in case anyone else was having the same problem and once I find out what is going on, that information might be helpful to them.

What about focus in Live View? Is that ok?

I just finished doing the AFMA for my lenses. All of them ended up in the +2 to -1 range so that validates Michael's comment about not needing AFMA straight out of the box. However, both the 100-400L and the 70-200L II had soft images when coupled with the 1.4x converter so I need to investigate that in the coming week. I have already posted the image of my cat Leo in the 7D II images thread if you want to take a look. That came out ok.

The one thing I noticed is that the 7D II needs light. When there is less light you may get a soft image. You may want to look at this.

 

[Loswr]

So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?

So, you're trying to replicate the 'new Canon user experience' for all those people who buy a 7DII for $1800 and a $2100 L-series f/2.8 zoom lens to go with it? Do you believe that is a large demographic?

Let me turn it around...perhaps, as someone trying to provide a service for those interested in purchasing photo gear, you might consider educating them on how to get the most from their gear. Just a thought...

 

[Ryan85]

So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?

As a long-time Canon user, I have never had to MFA any the Nikons Ive tested (nor Canons), nor would ever do so with any brand new camera for testing because that MFA would not be the same experience new camera owners would have out of the box. Probably something you didn't think of.

So what do you guys do for a living? Just curious.

afma is supposed to correct for minor tolerance mismatches between the camera body and lens. your are not AFMAing the camera, you are matching the camera to the lens and most of the time it only needed for minor errors. there is something else going on with your setup i think. i would do a reset and try some simple test shots to see whats going on.

+1.....to have that much of a problem I don't think its the afma. It's crazy to me that you have 2 new bodies that would be focusing that bad. I can see getting 1 but 2?

 

[Keith_Reeder]

The same things were said after the release of the 70D

And the 7D

And the 40D.

And yet - I must be such a lucky bloke - I bought a 40D; and a 7D; and a 70D; and a 7D Mk II, and they all focus brilliantly.

What are the odds?

 

[Keith_Reeder]

So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?

Yes. A 7D Mk II isn't a beginner's camera.

 

[Ryan85]

So let me get this straight, in your minds, it is completely acceptable for a brand new Canon user, to open his $1800 camera and expect to know how to MFA a camera, or even know what it is for that matter?

Yes. A 7D Mk II isn't a beginner's camera.

+1