From 7D (Mark I) to 80D - Is it worth it, and what will I be missing?

[Grummbeerbauer]

Hi everbody,

I could get a new 80D for 950€ (which is ridiculously expensive compared to some deals the US guys seem to get on a regular basis, but still ~100€ cheaper than regular for us EU guys and therefore quite a steal).
I have a 6,5 years old classic 7D, which I still like and which still works fine. At the same time, it has some deficits, in particular AF tracking was never as good as I had hoped, per pixel sharpness also left a bit to be desired, and high ISO is .
Considering that the 80D has overtaken 7D in many departments, in particular AF, video features and dynamic range, I am seriously tempted. At the same time, I am not sure if I will actually gain a lot in the IQ department... of course there are six more megapixels to be had, but when looking, e.g., at DPReview's test scene

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_eos80d&attr13_1=canon_eos7d&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&normalization=full&widget=340&x=-0.22805507745266781&y=-0.6170194532522065

I am not sure if I am actually getting that big an improvement here of I am not just magnifying the lens flaws even more or run into the AA filter limiting resolution.


Further, I am wondering what I might miss in the 80D compared to the 7D(I).

I think I will definitely miss the thumb stick for AF point selection... the four way controller of the 70D (which should be roughly the same as that of the 80D, right?) which I briefly played around with is not located very conveniently and feels a bit mushy. I also use "spot AF" a lot on the 7D, which isn't available on the 80D if I am not mistaken. And of course there is a noticable(?) drop in build quality from 7D to xxD series, but how much this will bother me, I am not sure.
Anything else that would spring to mind?

Any experience from other people that did the same up(?)grade?

Regards

Grummbeerbauer
-

 

[davidmurray]

Hi everbody,

I could get a new 80D for 950€ (which is ridiculously expensive compared to some deals the US guys seem to get on a regular basis, but still ~100€ cheaper than regular for us EU guys and therefore quite a steal).
I have a 6,5 years old classic 7D, which I still like and which still works fine. At the same time, it has some deficits, in particular AF tracking was never as good as I had hoped, per pixel sharpness also left a bit to be desired, and high ISO is .
Considering that the 80D has overtaken 7D in many departments, in particular AF, video features and dynamic range, I am seriously tempted. At the same time, I am not sure if I will actually gain a lot in the IQ department... of course there are six more megapixels to be had, but when looking, e.g., at DPReview's test scene

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_eos80d&attr13_1=canon_eos7d&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&normalization=full&widget=340&x=-0.22805507745266781&y=-0.6170194532522065

I am not sure if I am actually getting that big an improvement here of I am not just magnifying the lens flaws even more or run into the AA filter limiting resolution.


Further, I am wondering what I might miss in the 80D compared to the 7D(I).

I think I will definitely miss the thumb stick for AF point selection... the four way controller of the 70D (which should be roughly the same as that of the 80D, right?) which I briefly played around with is not located very conveniently and feels a bit mushy. I also use "spot AF" a lot on the 7D, which isn't available on the 80D if I am not mistaken. And of course there is a noticable(?) drop in build quality from 7D to xxD series, but how much this will bother me, I am not sure.
Anything else that would spring to mind?

Any experience from other people that did the same up(?)grade?

Regards

Grummbeerbauer
-

I believe the pertinent words are: "which I still like and which still works fine.".

If it was fine 1 month after buying it, it will still be fine today unless a fault has developed, which sounds like hasn't happened.

Do you have any requirements that cannot be met by your existing equipment?

 

[pwp]

The 7D is still a remarkably valid and contemporary feeling camera. And it sounds like you're happy with it.

Sure the newer camera will do some things differently, but it's a kind of oblique upgrade path. Check to see if your 80D considerations just a bit of GAS?

-pw

 

[neuroanatomist]

I think I will definitely miss the thumb stick for AF point selection... the four way controller of the 70D (which should be roughly the same as that of the 80D, right?) which I briefly played around with is not located very conveniently and feels a bit mushy. I also use "spot AF" a lot on the 7D, which isn't available on the 80D if I am not mistaken. And of course there is a noticable(?) drop in build quality from 7D to xxD series, but how much this will bother me, I am not sure.
Anything else that would spring to mind?

As you describe it, the 80D doesn't seem like much of an upgrade. You gain a few things, lose a few things...more like a crossgrade. You're also dropping from 8 fps to 7 fps.

The 7DII would be an upgrade. I'd go that route or stick with what you have, for now.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

In the item "image quality" alone, even the modest Rebel T5 is better than the 7D. If you see the 7D and 80D images in the same size, the superiority of 80D will be evident.

Obviously the natural successor to his case is the 7D Mark II, but 80D will be an upgrade in almost all respects.

As others have said, ergonomics and AF spot adjustments will be absent. I heard some reports of people who have used them, and almost all were happily surprised with the 80D.

 

[dpc]

I've thought along the same lines. Should I get a 7DMII or an 80D to replace my 7D? Or a 5DMIII to replace my MII? Or a Fujifilm X-T2 to replace my X-T10? Every time a new camera is announced by just about any manufacturer I get excited and think, "Maybe I should get rid of my cameras and go for this new stuff. There's so much more it can do than my old equipment." I soon realize that my old cameras, although lacking features and not having sensors that are as robust in some respects, take good pictures with which I am generally happy. The new cameras may help me take better pictures but, on reflection, I'm not convinced any incremental improvement is really worth the money. I was on the verge of trading my 7D in for a 7DMII in March and, at the last moment, bought a Sigma 150-600 Contemporary instead. It was a far better move. Unless you're really convinced upgrading your camera body is needed, I'd spend what cash you have for photography equipment on good lenses with focal lengths you know you would really use. How do you decide when it's time for a new camera? When the old one doesn't produce the results you want and you know it's not because of your technique. Or unless money isn't a consideration for you, in which case I doubt you'd be asking the question in the first place. Maybe it'd be wise to rent a 7DMII and an 80D and see how the results compare with what you have now.

Having said all that, I may just spring for a new camera one of these days. Sometimes we just want new stuff. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

There are some factors that should be weighed:

It has many CF cards that would be useless in 80D?
You usually do video or photos in Live View?
Would you like to use articulated LCD and headset?
You want a camera a bit smaller and lighter?
You want the anti-flicker for fluorescent lighting?
Would you like to quieter shutter?
You need to work AF on F5.6 lens + 1.4x teleconverter?
You want to raise the shadows at ISO100, without a lot of noise?

 

[j-nord]

Maybe I missed it but what does the OP shoot? This is a pretty important consideration. 80D might provide clear pros/cons for the OP, we don't know.

 

[Grummbeerbauer]

First, thanks to all people who contributed their opinion.

The 7D is still a remarkably valid and contemporary feeling camera. And it sounds like you're happy with it.

Mostly happy, yes. AF tracking doesn't really work for me - but that could be me. And I often tend to push shadows in post, having a bit less shadow noise here would be welcome.

Sure the newer camera will do some things differently, but it's a kind of oblique upgrade path. Check to see if your 80D considerations just a bit of GAS?

I guess a combination of a recently rather slumbering GAS, that was freshly woken when I ran across that deal.

 

[Grummbeerbauer]

The joystick at the back going missing is not good.

Yes, that is one of the most relevant gripes I have with the 80D. But I guess only trying it out will help here.

Will "single point AF" work for you instead of "spot AF"? (I suggest going to a store and trying it out.)

Most stores here only stock xxxD level cameras, unfortunately.

You won't notice the difference in build quality (if there is one.)

Maybe "build quality" was not the proper term... I am not saying that the 80D is in general assembled more shoddily. But AFAIK, the 80D has more (if not all) parts of the body built from plastics instead of the magnesium alloy of the 7D, giving it a less tank-like feel.

 

[Grummbeerbauer]

As you describe it, the 80D doesn't seem like much of an upgrade. You gain a few things, lose a few things...more like a crossgrade. You're also dropping from 8 fps to 7 fps.

The 7DII would be an upgrade. I'd go that route or stick with what you have, for now.

I rarely use burst shooting intensively... the few times I visit, e.g., a bird of prey show, I usually discard >90% of the shots due to AF misses - I think its not actually that bad, but it feels like 90% because it seems that all the shots with "good" composition and bird posture are those where the AF is way off.
I am probably doing something wrong here, but what more than pointing at the bird and tracking it in the viewfinder should be necessary?
In any case - the (hopefully) more advanced AF system in the 80D might help me a lot more than that 1 fps more.

One further reason I preferred the 80D over the 7DII (aside from the obvious - price, the 7DII is still >1250€ here) is the new sensor tech in the 80D. Since noise in general, but in particular shadow noise is one of my main issues with the 7DI, and since I actually do not see much of an improvement here from 7D -> 7DII, I think this might be something I like. But now that I went over that comparison again and also checked D7200 or a6300... well...

 

[Grummbeerbauer]

I soon realize that my old cameras, although lacking features and not having sensors that are as robust in some respects, take good pictures with which I am generally happy. The new cameras may help me take better pictures but, on reflection, I'm not convinced any incremental improvement is really worth the money. I was on the verge of trading my 7D in for a 7DMII in March and, at the last moment, bought a Sigma 150-600 Contemporary instead. It was a far better move. Unless you're really convinced upgrading your camera body is needed, I'd spend what cash you have for photography equipment on good lenses with focal lengths you know you would really use.

I am currently actually also looking for a long tele zoom lens, this is the FL I am missing most sorely. I tried the 150-600C, but wasn't too happy with sharpness - are you primarily using it on FF or APS-C? From all that is written, the three 150-600 are way better on FF at least in the center due to the larger pixels.
I also played around with the 100-400II, but at least the copy I had had some nasty purple fringing on one side of the frame and sharpness was actually not much improved over the 150-600C.

Maybe I should forget about the 80D and wait for this rumor

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29454.0

to materialize.

Having said all that, I may just spring for a new camera one of these days. Sometimes we just want new stuff. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't.

Having a new toy was definitely part of my considerations...

 

[Grummbeerbauer]

There are some factors that should be weighed:

It has many CF cards that would be useless in 80D?
You usually do video or photos in Live View?
Would you like to use articulated LCD and headset?
You want a camera a bit smaller and lighter?
You want the anti-flicker for fluorescent lighting?
Would you like to quieter shutter?
You need to work AF on F5.6 lens + 1.4x teleconverter?
You want to raise the shadows at ISO100, without a lot of noise?

That's a good list of decision points, thanks.

1) I have a mere two CF cards, one 16, one 32 GB. And I never felt I needed more. Since a SanDisk Ultra 64GB SDXC is only ~20€, this aspect is not that relevant for me.
2) I don't do video - but at least one reason is that I suck at MF and the 7D's LV AF sucks in general, even more so for video.
3) The articulated LCD (plus the apparently great LV AF, thanks to dual-pixel) is actually one of the most interesting things for me. I like doing macro work, where both of these should come in very handy. Not sure if the AF would be good enough for BIF (Bees in flight ) though...
4) nah, size wise the 7D is fine... where I cannot take the 7D, I can also not bring the 80D
5) I shot handball in a gym once - really, that's all the indoor sports shooting I ever did. And the issues I had was again much more the AF hit rate than inconsistent lighting. I used the 85 1.8 most of the time, which gave the best results, but still only a humble quota of keepers. So it is not a relevant feature for me.
6) A more quiet shutter sound would have clearly been useful from time to time... is the 80D much quieter than the 7D?
7) The only lense I have I use with a 1.4 TC (Kenko) is the 70-200f4 IS, and even that only rarely, because I am not too happy with the results (bokeh gets horrible). I might give this a try if I end up buying a 100-400II at some point in time, though.
8) Yes, definitively... when processing images, I rarely do not use the shadow slider in LR.

 

[Grummbeerbauer]

Maybe I missed it but what does the OP shoot? This is a pretty important consideration. 80D might provide clear pros/cons for the OP, we don't know.

You are right, I should have mentioned that.
Aside from the occasional family events, vacation pictures, zoo visit or bird of pray show, I think actually enjoy macro work the most.
Basically no sports, no running animals, no fast and erratically moving toddlers (yet ).

Considering my allergy to noise, it seems like FF would be something for me, so I actually also consider waiting for the 6DII - if they up the AF system to 80D levels (well, even 750D/7D levels would probably be an improvement) that could be the camera for me. If they throw in the 80Ds swivel screen that would sweeten the deal even more.
The only thing that would keep me from moving to FF (aside from price) is that I would have to part with the 18-35A and would need to get a FF equivalent for the 10-20.

 

[Maximilian]

Hi Grummbeerbauer!

Can't remember if you're from Germany or Austria.

I just wanted to add, that if and whatever you decide buy there are still some promotions running at Canon Germany.
The "Sommer-Promotion" does not include the 80D but the "EOS plus X" has it included.

Check it here:
http://www.canon.de/for_home/promotions/

 

[Grummbeerbauer]

Hi Grummbeerbauer!

Can't remember if you're from Germany or Austria.

I just wanted to add, that if and whatever you decide buy there are still some promotions running at Canon Germany.
The "Sommer-Promotion" does not include the 80D but the "EOS plus X" has it included.

Check it here:
http://www.canon.de/for_home/promotions/

Thank you very much for pointing that out!

I indeed had checked the Canon "Promotions" page, but somehow missed that "EOS plus X" thing... maybe because I skimmed over it and read "Cinema EOS".
250€ rebate on the 100-400II sounds really interesting... ~1600€ instead of ~1850€, but with that 80D, that would mean shelling out 2550€ out for camera stuff... not sure if I can justify that to myself. :

 

[Maximilian]

... that would mean shelling out 2550€ out for camera stuff... not sure if I can justify that to myself. :

Tough decissions
Depends on real needs (no GAS!) and on money saved!
Good thing on "EOS plus X" is that'll last until the end of the year ==> more time for saving

 

[dpc]

I soon realize that my old cameras, although lacking features and not having sensors that are as robust in some respects, take good pictures with which I am generally happy. The new cameras may help me take better pictures but, on reflection, I'm not convinced any incremental improvement is really worth the money. I was on the verge of trading my 7D in for a 7DMII in March and, at the last moment, bought a Sigma 150-600 Contemporary instead. It was a far better move. Unless you're really convinced upgrading your camera body is needed, I'd spend what cash you have for photography equipment on good lenses with focal lengths you know you would really use.

I am currently actually also looking for a long tele zoom lens, this is the FL I am missing most sorely. I tried the 150-600C, but wasn't too happy with sharpness - are you primarily using it on FF or APS-C? From all that is written, the three 150-600 are way better on FF at least in the center due to the larger pixels.
I also played around with the 100-400II, but at least the copy I had had some nasty purple fringing on one side of the frame and sharpness was actually not much improved over the 150-600C.

Maybe I should forget about the 80D and wait for this rumor

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29454.0

to materialize.

Having said all that, I may just spring for a new camera one of these days. Sometimes we just want new stuff. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't.

Having a new toy was definitely part of my considerations...

Sorry for not responding earlier. I've used the 150-600 Sigma Contemporary on my 7D. I also have a 5DMII. I don't believe I've used it with that yet. I find the sharpness very good even at 600mm. What is acceptable sharpness is a matter of personal taste. Having said that I am more than happy with it. It may be that I've just got a very good copy. I also have a 300mm f/4L which I used with a 1.4 III teleconverter before I got the 150-600. An excellent lens but a bit short since I like to shoot BIF. I also have the Canon 70-300L, another excellent lens but short for some of the pictures I like to take. I'm attaching some pictures taken with the Sigma 150-600mm Contemporary.


First picture: 7D, 600mm, 1/800, f/7.1, handheld
Second Picture: 7D, 562mm, 1/320, f/6.3, handheld

 

[dpc]

A couple more:

1. 7D, 600mm, f/6.3, 1/160, handheld
2. 7D, 600mm, f/6.3, 1/125, handheld

 

[Grummbeerbauer]

Sorry for not responding earlier. I've used the 150-600 Sigma Contemporary on my 7D. I also have a 5DMII. I don't believe I've used it with that yet. I find the sharpness very good even at 600mm. What is acceptable sharpness is a matter of personal taste. Having said that I am more than happy with it. It may be that I've just got a very good copy. I also have a 300mm f/4L which I used with a 1.4 III teleconverter before I got the 150-600. An excellent lens but a bit short since I like to shoot BIF. I also have the Canon 70-300L, another excellent lens but short for some of the pictures I like to take. I'm attaching some pictures taken with the Sigma 150-600mm Contemporary.

The shots are very nice (like the posture of that bird and the near macro flower shot the most ), but they show the same lack of critical sharpness that made me not go with the 150-600C. But as you said, sharpness is a subjective thing and I am sure that for normal sized prints (I rarely print larger than A3 anyway), the "C" is more than adequate.
But after now learning that I could get the 100-400LII for ~1600€ (okay, plus 950€ for the 80D... ), I am severely tempted.
What also makes we prefer the 100-400LII route is that it is still portable enough to be carried along for a vacation - the 150-600s (any of them, the "S" of course the most) are just too big and too heavy for that.
One body, 17-55 (or 18-35 or 24-105), 10-20 and 100-400 would still fit into the average hand luggage allowance and should give me a lot of flexibility (currently I would bring the 70-200L 4 IS as a tele option).