Funerals and photography?
- Thread starter grenadilla
- Start date
fragilesi said:
Again, that isn't what I meant. The thread sounded like it was coming from a "Western" mindset, where death is very much classified as a sad and negative time and not so much a thoughtful retrospective gathering of the closest people to the departed where their life is celebrated and honoured and the people who are gathered, possibly for the last time if the departed was the common bond between them, can enjoy reminiscing the times shared and the firm belief that the departed has transitioned to a 'better' place.
Even the 'Western' religions that believe in an afterlife still center on mourning, black clothes, hushed 'respectable' tones etc. I am not anti 'Western' or pro anything not Western, I am stating the obvious. The 'Western' mindset to funerals is not celebratory so even the thought of a photographer is an anathema to most people, so the business suggestion would need to take that kind of mindset into account.
I have my personal beliefs and after losing my Mother when she was just 53 I wish somebody had taken pictures at her funeral, now, 24 years later, I would love to see who was there, put faces to names and have an actual image to remind me of that celebration of her life by the people who were nearest and dearest to her. Of course I think about her every day, and I probably wouldn't have appreciated the images for many years, but I realise now (and have for years) I would have liked a record, and some images would have done that nicely.
So get over all your negativity and see that I was just pointing out the hurdles the target market's mindset will present to the business idea. It would be a hard sell and unlike a wedding where the results are eagerly anticipated in a short time frame, the true value of funeral photography probably wouldn't be appreciated for many years.
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Hi privatebydesign.
I too thought that I was seeing a predominantly western culture point of view, not that I am too well versed in other cultures, but I have detected more of a celebratory aspect from other cultures.
I lost my father just over a year ago at the age of 82 after a life full of experiences, I felt that his wake may be the last time I saw some of his friends and work colleagues, he was the only common connection between many people there, I took my camera and I have some pictures of people celebrating his life and how he touched on their lives, as well as some discreetly showing the sadness others felt at his passing. I did feel uncomfortable whilst taking the photos, but it is part of how I was dealing with loosing my dad, he gave me my first camera, one that he no longer needed so you could say it was partially his fault! ;D
Cheers, Graham.
I too thought that I was seeing a predominantly western culture point of view, not that I am too well versed in other cultures, but I have detected more of a celebratory aspect from other cultures.
I lost my father just over a year ago at the age of 82 after a life full of experiences, I felt that his wake may be the last time I saw some of his friends and work colleagues, he was the only common connection between many people there, I took my camera and I have some pictures of people celebrating his life and how he touched on their lives, as well as some discreetly showing the sadness others felt at his passing. I did feel uncomfortable whilst taking the photos, but it is part of how I was dealing with loosing my dad, he gave me my first camera, one that he no longer needed so you could say it was partially his fault! ;D
Cheers, Graham.
privatebydesign said:
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privatebydesign said:
With all due respect, it might not have been what you meant, but it is exactly what you wrote.
And please stop talking about whatever “negativity” you have somehow perceived from me because I have my own view and ideas on what is a very personal subject. The very fact that you are talking about “target” markets and “business” ideas when it comes to funerals tells me all I need to know. If someone wants to have a funeral photographed for their loved one that’s 100% okay with me. I simply expressed the point that I would strongly object to it for a funeral for my family. You can write that off as “negative” if you have to but with that mindset anyone would run into trouble trying to do this.
For what it’s worth I am sorry to hear about your mother I really am. Partly because I empathise with you, sadly mine passed away much younger. I have memories of her that I absolutely cherish but as a teenager Lord only knows what I would have done to someone pointing a camera at me during the service that day. So, if anyone happens to photograph a funeral for people that want it I hope they do a good job and that they value the images. It does require understanding and a bit of respect for those whose beliefs don’t tie in with it bearing in mind there might be a mixture of beliefs about this at many funerals. I think we're both in agreement to that extent?
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.
Grenadilla asks, "What is the reasoning behind the desire to leave the final chapter of a person's life untold, to be non-remembered?" This question, he says, comes from a North American perspective.
I believe the question is valid and has a mostly, but not entirely, basis in fact. There are some cultural differences even in NA, but the dominant culture here in NA deeply fears death. Therefore, it does everything possible to keep it tucked away in a closet -- including not having pictures around to remind us. So called news media never show pictures of dead bodies, "poor taste," they say. Newspapers used to have obituary writers (where a new reporter typically started because you didn't have a moving target and the deadline was soft, so to speak.) People with terminal maladies are said to be "battling" against something, as an acceptance of death is verboten. Even as hospice has become more broadly accepted, it is not respected by the "rage against the dying of the light" crowd and their Vince Lombardi mantra, "Winning isn't the most important thing, it's the ONLY thing." A battle until the final breath is the only way to be respected as a human. If you're looking for a social war, mention assisted suicide! This aversion to death was not always the case, even in the dominant culture.
From the early days of photography, we see death treated as simply the part of life that it is. Mathew Brady once had a New York exhibition of dead bodies littering a Civil War battlefield. Go to MOMA and offer such an exhibition today; they will probably have you escorted to the door. At the climax of that century it was not uncommon for survivors to have pictures taken with bodies of their departed loved ones -- and the bodies staged to appear as they were in life.
I will offer that in the NA dominant culture, death policies, procedures and rituals are based in the concept of commiseration rather than celebration. The celebration rituals focus on ongoing life (birth, wedding, reunions, etc.); the commiseration rituals focus on loss and grief. We in NA tend to focus solely on a future devoid of the person we have "lost." It is sometimes said we are a people without a history. I don't know about that, but I do know we do not value history. We find it hard to look at the life of the deceased and find wonder in what they gave us -- and to see that as a cause for celebration rather than commiseration. It seems narcissistic to me that we focus solely on ourselves and our loss. It's over and time to get on with it we somberly say. Reset the clock and let a new game begin. Break out the cameras again and resume celebrating LIFE -- weddings, graduations, sports, fishing trophies!
I hope that is an answer to the original question. This will change, is in fact, now changing. However it will take generations before "funeral photographers" in this culture will ever be viewed the same as wedding photographers. A few of us, as so generously offered in this thread, are pioneering a new appreciation for the value of visual remembrances in what we now see as the land of commiseration. I very much appreciate the wonderful stories that have been told here.
Standing with us is Magnum Photographer, Martin Parr. In an "assignment" he gave to document a funeral, he has written:
"I always take photographs when I attend a funeral. Most people there know who I am and expect me to be there with my camera. I think many of the photographs submitted for my directive come from family albums, rather than from people going out there specifically. That's understandable: it's a hard task. I think the most successful image is of the family burying an urn, with a bunch of balloons. But the assignment shows that some people do have common sense, and have taken photos at funerals because they are an event worth remembering. The camera's job is to document life, and it's crazy not to do it. Sometimes you feel uncomfortable taking a photograph, but that's all part of the job."
That is from: http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2013/aug/27/photographs-funerals-smoking
All part of the job. For some of us, as photographers, our job is to show ourselves to ourselves, and we should do that as comprehensively as possible I believe.
Celebration or Commiseration?
Live your life, do your work, then take your hat.
-Thoreau on life and death
Grenadilla asks, "What is the reasoning behind the desire to leave the final chapter of a person's life untold, to be non-remembered?" This question, he says, comes from a North American perspective.
I believe the question is valid and has a mostly, but not entirely, basis in fact. There are some cultural differences even in NA, but the dominant culture here in NA deeply fears death. Therefore, it does everything possible to keep it tucked away in a closet -- including not having pictures around to remind us. So called news media never show pictures of dead bodies, "poor taste," they say. Newspapers used to have obituary writers (where a new reporter typically started because you didn't have a moving target and the deadline was soft, so to speak.) People with terminal maladies are said to be "battling" against something, as an acceptance of death is verboten. Even as hospice has become more broadly accepted, it is not respected by the "rage against the dying of the light" crowd and their Vince Lombardi mantra, "Winning isn't the most important thing, it's the ONLY thing." A battle until the final breath is the only way to be respected as a human. If you're looking for a social war, mention assisted suicide! This aversion to death was not always the case, even in the dominant culture.
From the early days of photography, we see death treated as simply the part of life that it is. Mathew Brady once had a New York exhibition of dead bodies littering a Civil War battlefield. Go to MOMA and offer such an exhibition today; they will probably have you escorted to the door. At the climax of that century it was not uncommon for survivors to have pictures taken with bodies of their departed loved ones -- and the bodies staged to appear as they were in life.
I will offer that in the NA dominant culture, death policies, procedures and rituals are based in the concept of commiseration rather than celebration. The celebration rituals focus on ongoing life (birth, wedding, reunions, etc.); the commiseration rituals focus on loss and grief. We in NA tend to focus solely on a future devoid of the person we have "lost." It is sometimes said we are a people without a history. I don't know about that, but I do know we do not value history. We find it hard to look at the life of the deceased and find wonder in what they gave us -- and to see that as a cause for celebration rather than commiseration. It seems narcissistic to me that we focus solely on ourselves and our loss. It's over and time to get on with it we somberly say. Reset the clock and let a new game begin. Break out the cameras again and resume celebrating LIFE -- weddings, graduations, sports, fishing trophies!
I hope that is an answer to the original question. This will change, is in fact, now changing. However it will take generations before "funeral photographers" in this culture will ever be viewed the same as wedding photographers. A few of us, as so generously offered in this thread, are pioneering a new appreciation for the value of visual remembrances in what we now see as the land of commiseration. I very much appreciate the wonderful stories that have been told here.
Standing with us is Magnum Photographer, Martin Parr. In an "assignment" he gave to document a funeral, he has written:
"I always take photographs when I attend a funeral. Most people there know who I am and expect me to be there with my camera. I think many of the photographs submitted for my directive come from family albums, rather than from people going out there specifically. That's understandable: it's a hard task. I think the most successful image is of the family burying an urn, with a bunch of balloons. But the assignment shows that some people do have common sense, and have taken photos at funerals because they are an event worth remembering. The camera's job is to document life, and it's crazy not to do it. Sometimes you feel uncomfortable taking a photograph, but that's all part of the job."
That is from: http://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2013/aug/27/photographs-funerals-smoking
All part of the job. For some of us, as photographers, our job is to show ourselves to ourselves, and we should do that as comprehensively as possible I believe.
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A few photos from after the service at the national cemetary using the M3+11-22. They chose a national cemetary after seeing the WW II memorial cemetaries in Europe while stationed there.
Even though I brought a less conspicuous setup, the camera stayed in the car during the service. Got a few photos of the funeral procession lining up and the people visiting before the committal ceremony. I'll go back on a nice sunny day with the 6D+11-24 when the tombstone is in place.
IMG_1357 by dvmtthws, on Flickr
IMG_1375 by dvmtthws, on Flickr
IMG_1438 by dvmtthws, on Flickr
Even though I brought a less conspicuous setup, the camera stayed in the car during the service. Got a few photos of the funeral procession lining up and the people visiting before the committal ceremony. I'll go back on a nice sunny day with the 6D+11-24 when the tombstone is in place.
IMG_1357 by dvmtthws, on Flickr
IMG_1375 by dvmtthws, on Flickr
IMG_1438 by dvmtthws, on Flickr
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dcm said:
Nice images. The national cemeteries can make for dramatic pictures. I need to go redo pictures of a school pal who died in Vietnam (two weeks before I got there!). He's in a grave with his Dad (WWII) and Mom. Thanks for reminding me. I'll have to be on the lookout now for a good weather day.
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Nice use of cropping, dcm! I've been considering this recently, how difficult and off-putting people can find ultra-wide shooting, when it can wind up presenting so much irrelevant visuals, or an image can even become dominated by skies or busy backgrounds when you just want to capture something with a bit of context around it... You've done great with that first picture in particular 
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Khufu said:Nice use of cropping, dcm! I've been considering this recently, how difficult and off-putting people can find ultra-wide shooting, when it can wind up presenting so much irrelevant visuals, or an image can even become dominated by skies or busy backgrounds when you just want to capture something with a bit of context around it... You've done great with that first picture in particular
Thanks. The first lent itself to a panoramic treatment the best, otherwise the sky and sea of grass in the foreground dominated.
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I was asked by my ex-wife to take a photograph of the funeral of my Mother-in law comprising the horse drawn carriage. I think mainly on the basis that it had cost so much and they wanted a record of the 'send-off' which was justifiable on several levels if not just on that basis alone. I had to plan well ahead and could not see a way of using my 5D3 SLR with wide angle, without it distracting others, even though I would not get much time to complete the task. In the end I opted for a compact and stitching, as the only way! In my opinion it did not turn out so bad but I spent a lot of time PP removing background reflections from all that glass on the carriage!!Bless her!
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MARKOE PHOTOE
Photography is a love affair with life.
Hillsilly said:
Well said.
I've shot a funeral and the 'celebration' after the ceremony for a dear friend and his wife. He died at an early age of 60 and his wife followed within the second year of his passing.
It was the celebration of life and all of the wonderful memories they/he created during his illustrious life. He was a giver, a great man and a patient soul.
Friends and relatives came from all over the US to pay their last respects. This was so memorable to have so many friends and relatives together for one purpose.
Only wish Canon would have a completely silent shutter (electronic) like Fuji and now Sony is providing on their new A7R-II.
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Last year I was one of two FD photographers asked to photograph a firefighter line of duty death funeral. I found it to be a very uncomfortable experience. While you are trying to get pictures for the Fire Dept and the family you are trying to stay as far under the radar and as invisible as possible.
http://www.squadfirephotos.com/Other/Hartford-Ct-LODD-funeral-101314/i-P6gwCgk
http://www.squadfirephotos.com/Other/Hartford-Ct-LODD-funeral-101314/i-P6gwCgk
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patrickfd said:
Thanks for sharing those. I see a lot of work that went in to getting all those shots from good angles.
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patrickfd said:
Good angles and shots. I really like 40 and 119. The giant watermarks though really detract from the quality of the images.
It's hard enough to get good shots for celebrations, but for a funeral it must be a lot more difficult. Props to you.
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People aren't at their best. Probably want to look back on happier times rather than 'oh remember that very sad day when we buried him'
Also, if there was say a role for an official photographer it would become like weddings where indignant uncle bobs bring their massive lenses and flashguns and ruin the atmosphere, kids taking selfies on their iphones etc.
I've been at one funeral when the papparazzi were outside the church and then trying to sneak into the graveyard amongst family and friends (a family friend was the innocent victim of a notorious murder) and it was phuqqing horrible.
I attended a funeral earlier this year which was a really brilliant, humourous celebration of life, by the end of the tributes I was sore kaughing with some rekindled memoties of a great guy who succumbed to mnd. I almost wish I had an audio recording of the service, as it was such a considered and uplifting affair. But that would be disrespectful.
There were bits in the first example where I cried a lot, bits in the second example where I cried a little. Despite the packed halls on both occassions, it was essentially a private moment in a group context.
If we held 'viking burials' or in a culture where mourning is more public and acceotable, then there might be a case, unfortunately, for every discreet, compassionate photographer who treats things with dignity, there is a blithering idiot with no sense of occassion or self.
Also, if there was say a role for an official photographer it would become like weddings where indignant uncle bobs bring their massive lenses and flashguns and ruin the atmosphere, kids taking selfies on their iphones etc.
I've been at one funeral when the papparazzi were outside the church and then trying to sneak into the graveyard amongst family and friends (a family friend was the innocent victim of a notorious murder) and it was phuqqing horrible.
I attended a funeral earlier this year which was a really brilliant, humourous celebration of life, by the end of the tributes I was sore kaughing with some rekindled memoties of a great guy who succumbed to mnd. I almost wish I had an audio recording of the service, as it was such a considered and uplifting affair. But that would be disrespectful.
There were bits in the first example where I cried a lot, bits in the second example where I cried a little. Despite the packed halls on both occassions, it was essentially a private moment in a group context.
If we held 'viking burials' or in a culture where mourning is more public and acceotable, then there might be a case, unfortunately, for every discreet, compassionate photographer who treats things with dignity, there is a blithering idiot with no sense of occassion or self.
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