Gear setup: Two 5D mark iii's and a 1DX or a 5DS and a 1DX?

[bakalo]

I very recently bought the 5DS R to go with the 1DX and so far I have found all the warnings about tripods,cable release,moire and whatever else to be hugely exaggerated.It seems just fine to me handheld.I can crop and keep the detail which is what I wanted.Not a patch on the 1DX in low light

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

If you do the same, you have to include a tripod in your standard setup. I am a pretty steady guy, but, as several have pointed out, to get the max out of the 5DSR, you need to use very fast shutter speeds or a tripod. On the other hand, you have the same problem using a 20-24MP crop sensor, like the 7DII.

Is shutter-speed any more critical on a 5DS than on a 7DII?

With a 50 megapixel camera the image will NOT be more motion blur than 7D Mark ii, because the blur is equal in the two cameras (all settings being equal). However, 50 megapixel ALLOWS greater magnification than 7D Mark ii, and if you use this most CAPACITY, motion blur (which was hidden by the low resolution) will be more visible with 50 megapixel, than would be visible with a low-resolution camera .

 

[streestandtheatres]

Gotcha.

If you do the same, you have to include a tripod in your standard setup. I am a pretty steady guy, but, as several have pointed out, to get the max out of the 5DSR, you need to use very fast shutter speeds or a tripod. On the other hand, you have the same problem using a 20-24MP crop sensor, like the 7DII.

Is shutter-speed any more critical on a 5DS than on a 7DII?

With a 50 megapixel camera the image will NOT be more motion blur than 7D Mark ii, because the blur is equal in the two cameras (all settings being equal). However, 50 megapixel ALLOWS greater magnification than 7D Mark ii, and if you use this most CAPACITY, motion blur (which was hidden by the low resolution) will be more visible with 50 megapixel, than would be visible with a low-resolution camera .

 

[Eldar]

If you do the same, you have to include a tripod in your standard setup. I am a pretty steady guy, but, as several have pointed out, to get the max out of the 5DSR, you need to use very fast shutter speeds or a tripod. On the other hand, you have the same problem using a 20-24MP crop sensor, like the 7DII.

As someone thinking about getting a 5DSr, this is one of the things I can't get my head around. So many posts saying that a high shutter speed / tripod is needed, but I don't have a problem with this using a 7DII... Is shutter-speed any more critical on a 5DS than on a 7DII?
(I tend to shoot at 4x focal length (1/2000 for 400mm, ideally 1/160 for 35mm, though slower is certainly possible)), and I almost never have any problems.)

At 4x focal length you should be safe (by a margin). Don't let this issue deter you from getting a 5DSR. It is a fantastic camera and it is fully usable handheld. But to get that extra bit of performance and all the sharpness and resolution it can give, you will enjoy using a tripod. It is worth noting that nobody discuss this issue in a 7DII thread, or a D810 or A7RII thread for that matter. I just spent 2 weeks on a safari, where I used this camera handheld the whole time, with the 200-400 f4L IS 1.4x lens. Lowest handheld shutter speed was 1/30s @560mm. Not the sharpest image I have, but quite usable (it was a leopard in very low light).

 

[tomscott]

Personally I'd sell the two 5D MkIII's and get a 5DSR.

Indeed after running 1DS MkIII's for seven years I am looking to the 1DX MkII announcements to see if I go that way or go to the 5DSR. It seems moire is not as problematic as expected and the moire removal brush tool in L is very effective when it does happen.

I would agree, since getting the 7DMKII and seeing how good the files are the 5DSR is so tempting, the 5DMKIII is good but its getting old and its showing compared tot eh newer stuff.

Colour noise is so much more a problem in the older gen tech which annoys me!! I have just been testing my 7D vs 5DMKIII up to 12800 and the 7D has less colour noise and looks sharper… with the same lens the noise is also well controlled not as much as the 5DMKIII but the 7D looks good out the camera the 5DMKIII needs a little bit of work.

Really loved my 5DMKIII and shunned the idea that its not a great camera, but I'm starting to see its age more and more.

But to me the 5DMKIV is where its at, the 50mp is overkill and if the tech is carried over at a lower MP with better high ISO with much less colour noise and banding from the 5DMKIII the 5DSR will be an even more a specialist camera.

Saying that at the current price point they are such a great prospect for a lot of things not just landscape and studio but wildlife where you can crop quite far!

 

[chauncey]

The pros and cons of your choices have been amply described ad nauseam.

Photography is more than taking volumes of images that merely occupy space on one's HD.
Anyone can prance about and shoot everything that pops up in front of them and having superior gear will not make them good images.
Any high MP camera will allow cropping space, but so will a lower MP camera, if...you take advantage of photo-merging.
Witness this 60" lily that utilized that technique. http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=28216.0

The print is all that matters...and ascertaining what gear was used to create that print is a sheer exercise in futility.
It's about creating that one image, worthy of being printed and displayed in a position of importance.

 

[msm]

It is worth noting that nobody discuss this issue in a 7DII thread, or a D810 or A7RII thread for that matter.

It isn't an issue for the 7DII since that has only 20mpix. There are plenty of threads about camera shake and the D810 if you read Nikon forums. For the A7R II it isn't an issue at all because of IBIS and no shutter shake with efcs, I get sharp results at 1/10th of a second hand held with that camera.

 

[Eldar]

It is worth noting that nobody discuss this issue in a 7DII thread, or a D810 or A7RII thread for that matter.

It isn't an issue for the 7DII since that has only 20mpix. There are plenty of threads about camera shake and the D810 if you read Nikon forums. For the A7R II it isn't an issue at all because of IBIS and no shutter shake with efcs, I get sharp results at 1/10th of a second hand held with that camera.

Yes, it has less than half the number of pixels, but the pixel size on the 7DII is pretty close to the pixel size on the 5DSR (not quite, but close). So if you crop a 5DSR image to the same area as a crop sensor, you have pretty much exactly the same problem. A 7DII is (almost) as sensitive to shake as a 5DS/R.

 

[msm]

It is worth noting that nobody discuss this issue in a 7DII thread, or a D810 or A7RII thread for that matter.

It isn't an issue for the 7DII since that has only 20mpix. There are plenty of threads about camera shake and the D810 if you read Nikon forums. For the A7R II it isn't an issue at all because of IBIS and no shutter shake with efcs, I get sharp results at 1/10th of a second hand held with that camera.

Yes, it has less than half the number of pixels, but the pixel size on the 7DII is pretty close to the pixel size on the 5DSR (not quite, but close). So if you crop a 5DSR image to the same area as a crop sensor, you have pretty much exactly the same problem. A 7DII is (almost) as sensitive to shake as a 5DS/R.

Let me be more specific.

If you shoot same focal length and crop the 5DSR down to same field of view as 7DII then yes you are right.

If however you shoot the same field of view on both cameras (1.6x longer focal length on the 5DSR) which is how I would compare then each pixel on the 5DSR covers a smaller field of view and is more prone to camera shake than the pixels of the 7DII. The camera shake will effect the images of both cameras identically under this assumption but you loose more of your resolution potentional on the 5DSR, so in that sense it requires better technique.

 

[Eldar]

It is worth noting that nobody discuss this issue in a 7DII thread, or a D810 or A7RII thread for that matter.

It isn't an issue for the 7DII since that has only 20mpix. There are plenty of threads about camera shake and the D810 if you read Nikon forums. For the A7R II it isn't an issue at all because of IBIS and no shutter shake with efcs, I get sharp results at 1/10th of a second hand held with that camera.

Yes, it has less than half the number of pixels, but the pixel size on the 7DII is pretty close to the pixel size on the 5DSR (not quite, but close). So if you crop a 5DSR image to the same area as a crop sensor, you have pretty much exactly the same problem. A 7DII is (almost) as sensitive to shake as a 5DS/R.

Let me be more specific.

If you shoot same focal length and crop the 5DSR down to same field of view as 7DII then yes you are right.

If however you shoot the same field of view on both cameras (1.6x longer focal length on the 5DSR) which is how I would compare then each pixel on the 5DSR covers a smaller field of view and is more prone to camera shake than the pixels of the 7DII. The camera shake will effect the images of both cameras identically under this assumption but you loose more of your resolution potentional on the 5DSR, so in that sense it requires better technique.

To me that becomes an apple and orange comparison. A FF sensor covering the same area as a crop sensor will require a 1.6x longer focal length, which has its consequences. The only reasonable comparison, in my view, is that you can crop a 5DSR image 1.6x, still have more pixels than a 7DII image and pretty much same-same IQ.

 

[scottgoh]

you do have a lot of camera bodies,
i think if you can wait and see if the 5D4 is good or not before making the change.

i thought you are a wedding photographer just like me hence having such many bodies. lol.
Scott

 

[jeffa4444]

Ive carried out a number of tests over the last two weeks with the 5DS hand-held down to 1/20th second with a 24-70mm zoom and then done the same with a 6D. The outcome is not a surprise in the sense you can hand-hold with the 6D down to a slower speed but the difference is not as great as some make out if you follow good technique. All of that said Im not an advocate for hand-held landscape shots I like to take my time unless the light is changing rapidly like you get in quickly coming & going storms.
As others have stated the benefit of the 5DS / 5DSr is the higher resolution in cropping which you can do far more with this camera than a 5D MKIII or 6D. Without cropping the pictures especially if viewed on something like Apple 5K & 4K retina iMac screens is very noticably sharper particularly fine detail like leaves, fur etc.
I think there is a place for the 5D MKIII / 6D resolution and the 5DS/5DSr resolution, the 5DS is definately not a sports or action camera or a very low light camera but that resolution also helps its colorimagery "pop" in a somehow more pleasing way at least in landscape.