Get 5DSR now vs. wait for 5D4 for landscape work

jeanluc

EOS RP
Oct 29, 2012
232
140
Thanks to all for your thoughts.

It looks like all who have the 5DSR are pretty happy with it. I guess my main "fear" was getting one and then kicking myself a few months later.

The reason I am trying to figure this out now is simply that for me, living in the Northern US, is that shooting season is coming up, and if I'm going to upgrade, I'd like to get as much use out of it as I can as soon as I can. Like Surapon said, life is short. Otherwise, I'd just wait a few months and go from there.

I would mainly use it for landscapes on a tripod in live view, but as we all know landscapes=sunset/sunrise=DR issues.

It looks like, resolution aside, the 5DSR colors/banding etc are somewhat better than the 5d3, and even the DR is a bit too. I suspect I will still be bracketing everything and still using luminosity masks etc.no matter what i shoot with.

My other question for all you guys lucky enough to own a 5DSR is exactly how much does movement artifact and diffraction matter in the real world. If, as Roger Cicala says, you just forget any special technique and shoot it like any other camera, will you still notice enough improvement over the 5d3 to make it worth it?

I am pretty happy with my 5D3, and agree it's a hard act to follow.

And thanks again for the feedback from everyone!
 

Halfrack

EOS RP
Sep 14, 2011
668
1
Buy now, shoot now...

Think.. think... wait for announcement, but it's not everything you wanted and it's a 3-4 month wait... It's kind of a waste.

The 5DsR is amazing, and once you go high MP you'll have a hard time going back. Rent it and most places will credit you, or do the LensRentals keeper program.

Careful though, any lens issues you have will be magnified, though you'd experience the same with the A7R II. You could also just pick up a used A7R and a Metabones adapter and see if that works for you. Worst case you're out $100.
 

takesome1

EOS 5D Mark IV
Aug 23, 2013
1,557
218
100
None your business Alaska
I have compared my 5Ds R pictures to all of the 5D IV and 5Dx pictures I can find.
So far in the comparisons I have seen the 5Ds R is far superior. From the pictures I have found so far, those two bodies have no DR and no pixels either.

Personally I wouldn't wait, and I didn't. The 5Ds R is a great camera.

As for the 80D will mean for any upcoming full frame body especially a lower mp body, probably not much at all. It is probably only significant if Canon releases a FF body with the pixel density of the 80D.
 

j-nord

Derp
Feb 16, 2016
467
4
Colorado
AlanF said:
Regarding the relative performance of the 5DS R sensor and that of the 6D, Claff's charts show the 5DS R to have better DR at low iso http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

Regarding hand holding, you get the same shake amount irrespective of the number of pixels. You just lose the advantage of the extra pixels if there is shake, it doesn't get worse than for a lower pixel camera - you can always downsize to the lower pixel size.

The AF on the 6D is a weak point - the 5DS has superb AF, as well as a much better mirror operation.

The 5DS R is a superb piece of kit and is available now, significantly cheaper than when first announced. The 5DIV is a complete unknown at this stage.

I wasnt making a case for the 6D. AF isnt relevant to landscape.

Dxomarks charts show slightly better DR for the 5DSR at low ISO but slightly worse at high ISO. ISO sensitivity is awash. The color is the only significant difference where the 5DSR is noticably better at ISO 100 but then 400 ISO on they are extremely close. Overall I'd consider these sensors virtually identical unless you shoot at ISO 100, then you get a slight bump with the 5DSR.

Besides mpix I dont see the advantage of the 5DSR over the 5Diii or 6D for landscape. Id personally wait to see what the 5DIV yields. Its better than kicking yourself a few months later.
 

Zeidora

EOS RP
Feb 15, 2015
667
10
jeanluc said:
My other question for all you guys lucky enough to own a 5DSR is exactly how much does movement artifact and diffraction matter in the real world. If, as Roger Cicala says, you just forget any special technique and shoot it like any other camera, will you still notice enough improvement over the 5d3 to make it worth it?

Re movement, I shoot mostly on tripod with live view and cable release. No movement remains no movement.
Diffraction for landscape is mostly irrelevant. I may not crank the f-stop down to 22-32, but rather stay at f/11-16, and then use DOF range indicator on lens and careful examination of what I want sharp with live view and digital loupe, or use hyperfocal distance. If I do need more DOF, then I make a decision of intentionally sacrificing a bit of resolution in favor of DOF (but you cannot increase file size on 5D3 by opening f-stop).

Where I have seen differences is in extreme macro, where with MPE 65 at f/2.8, going above 4:1 is pointless, because you do not get any more detail, just enlarged blur-circles. With my 5D2 I can go to 7:1 (with 1.4x converter) and still get more detail. Effective f-stop of f/2.8 at 4:1 is f/14, so between 11 and 16 (see above). This 4:1 limit is not due to light per se (vs. electrons), but because of f-stop/diffraction. I can get more detail with microscope objectives, which have higher NA.

Re forgetting it's a high MP camera, as long as you consider longest hand-held time = 1 / (2 x focal length of lens), you are pretty safe.

Re computer power and storage, if you shoot on tripod, you shoot fewer frames. Where I have seen slow down is with z-stacking 50-100 frames, or batch processing CR2 to tif. That takes significantly longer than with 5d2 files, about 2-3x so proportional to file size. I do work on a new 6 core MacPro (soup can) with 32 GB of RAM, and doing a series of stacks with 500-1000 files overall makes the computer run pretty warm.
The files are large, and if you spot them, a larger screen is very helpful. The 5DsR was the reason for me to replace one of my Apple 27" cinema displays with a 32" 4K model.
 

Eldar

EOS R6
Jan 14, 2013
3,250
7
www.flickr.com
jeanluc said:
Thanks to all for your thoughts.

It looks like all who have the 5DSR are pretty happy with it. I guess my main "fear" was getting one and then kicking myself a few months later.

The reason I am trying to figure this out now is simply that for me, living in the Northern US, is that shooting season is coming up, and if I'm going to upgrade, I'd like to get as much use out of it as I can as soon as I can. Like Surapon said, life is short. Otherwise, I'd just wait a few months and go from there.

I would mainly use it for landscapes on a tripod in live view, but as we all know landscapes=sunset/sunrise=DR issues.

It looks like, resolution aside, the 5DSR colors/banding etc are somewhat better than the 5d3, and even the DR is a bit too. I suspect I will still be bracketing everything and still using luminosity masks etc.no matter what i shoot with.

My other question for all you guys lucky enough to own a 5DSR is exactly how much does movement artifact and diffraction matter in the real world. If, as Roger Cicala says, you just forget any special technique and shoot it like any other camera, will you still notice enough improvement over the 5d3 to make it worth it?

I am pretty happy with my 5D3, and agree it's a hard act to follow.

And thanks again for the feedback from everyone!
In general I shoot the 5DSR at a shutter speed of 1/2xfocal length, or faster and I try to practice good holding and breathing techniques (pretend it is a rifle). In certain cases, both with or without IS, I use slower shutter speeds, but then I concentrate even more. I have very few images where motion is a problem. As for diffraction, I seldom go beyond f8 and cannot say I have had any diffraction issues. Someone with a better eye for it might find something on the rare f11 or f16 shot though.

I see many photographers (or maybe that is what they’re not?) waving their cameras around and firing away as if they were point and shoot cameras. If you do that with a 5DSR, you will run into trouble.
 

Maiaibing

EOS R
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
GMCPhotographics said:
High DR really means very flat but very malleable RAWS files that can really be tortured in Post prod before blowing out highlights or blocking up the blacks.

Exactly right. I sometimes have people ("forum people" that is...) complain that my samples have blown high lights or blacks - and they sometimes do - because I often chose to press both the white and black points above their outer limits. It adds visual impact and interest to my style of photography. I have presets made for this purpose and its very fast to employ. Interestingly no publisher has so far ever complained about blown highlights/blacks.

However, I still think that more DR is better. Especially for the many who do not have the luxury of working with or in a controlled environment; street, nature, sports, event, documentary etc.
 

Maiaibing

EOS R
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
jeanluc said:
Hi

I am looking to update my 5D3 for landscape work in the next little while, and my debate has been 5DSR vs. waiting for the 5D4. With the 5d4 likely announced pretty soon, it would appear to be a no-brainer to wait, but doing that realistically means shooting with the 5d3 for quite a while before you could actually have a 5d4 in hand.

You should seriously rent or borrow a 5DS/R. The MPIX increase is something to behold. I am so happy with what my 5DS/R produces I sometimes wonder if I will use the 5DIV more than a few times a year when I (very likely) get one. Also, the 5DS can be picked up at a bargain price if you are lucky.

Yes, you can make large prints with the 5DIII. You could also do that with the original 5D. In fact I just ordered a giant hq metalic print for a client of a 2mb Nikon Coolpix 950 shot.

But fact is size does matter. You can see the difference in the details compared to the 5DS/R - even at the same (large) print size - especially on something like a landscape shot where you are maximizing everything else you do. Just the fact that every lens you own will perform better on a high MPIX camera makes it worth trying out.
 

Maiaibing

EOS R
Mar 7, 2014
1,054
2
Kabul
www.flickr.com
Hector1970 said:
I prefer my 5DIII which is a much better all rounder.
Sorry that you seem somewhat disappointed. But since the 5DS/R will everything the 5DIII does - and several key things better - I beg to differ.

Hector1970 said:
(5DIII's) ISO performance is better.
Not actually - as you write yourself. Fortunately, you do not have to "downsample" anything. "Downsampling" is something reviews do. You can just shoot, upload and/or print. When you view your results on screen or print your pictures are automatically "downsampled" compared to looking at the same screen shot or print from a 5DIII file. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about this - as if people have to do something special with their 5DS/R files. You do not have to do anything.

Hector1970 said:
The file size on the 5DSR is a practical problem.
Can be and certainly should be part of anyone's upgrade evaluation. I am lucky to have powerful PC's with ridiculous graphics cards, but I still needed to make some investments (new CF/SD cards, extra HD's, SSD's etc.)

Hector1970 said:
The 5DIII while maybe not perfect is a great all round camera.
I am hoping the 5DIV has some sort of wow factor but I don't see it coming, marginal improvements I'd say
Agree. We seldom see much improvement from one generation to the next. I had no regrets leaving the 5DIII aside and sticking to my 5DII's for many years.

When I got the 5DS/R it was for the 2x MPIX. I was originally skeptical because of the mixed reviews and especially the cap @iso 6400 - believing the 5DS/R would do poorly with high iso pictures. When I realized it had slightly better high iso than the 5DIII in addition to several other key improvements such as low light AF I was sold. No regrets here!
 
Mar 31, 2016
4
0
I am in the same situation. I tried a 5DS & was surprised at how good the results were.

I had the $$ saved for a 5D4 but it seems to be almost here every week so after a try out I purchased a 5DS & so far have been shooting on the 28MP setting & getting excellent results. The focussing like my 7D2 works well.

1 thing I did learn; you need to set up the lens focus setting on the body for each of your lens. The IQ definitely benefits from doing this.
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,353
557
So are you looking for a specific change or just changing for something better (though there is nothing wrong with that - I do it myself often enough!).

There are quite a few comments on the improved sensor on the new 80D, but I guess we will have to wait until enough real-world reviews come out to see how relevant any changes are. So given that the 80D seems to be an improved sensor I presume any 5D4 would have at least similar improvements over the 5D3, if not greater.
But again it all depends on if the 5D4 will be a development of the 5D3 or of the 5DS/R and that seems to be the main unknown at the moment.

If you can afford to wait for however long it takes for the 5D4 to be announced, then you are in a fortunate position. When the 5D4 is released I expect a drop in new prices of the 5DS so it becomes a win-win situation. Some places will rent gear and if you decide to buy will discount a large proportion of the rental cost from the price of the camera so it could be a low-risk way of trialling a 5DS/R.
 

surapon

80% BY HEART, 15% BY LENSES AND ONLY 5% BY CAMERA
Aug 2, 2013
2,957
2
72
APEX, NORTH CAROLINA, USA.
Hector1970 said:
Do you not get neck strain Surapon from all the cameras? I have to use a side strap even when it's just one camera. Although I recommended waiting I think Surapon's point it valid. Maybe screw it and just do it. There's always a better camera around the corner. You could wait or be enjoying the 5DSR now.

surapon said:
Dear Friend, jeanluc.
Please do not wait---Human life are very short------Get Canon EOS 5DSR Now for Landscape/ Cityscape Photography, Plus Canon TS-E 24 MM. F/ 3.5 L MK II tilt & Shift Lens----- And That are heaven on your Hand. I already took 3 Cameras 5D MK II, 7D MK II and EOS 5D SR with 12 Lenses a round the world on February, 2016 14 days, and I use 5D SR = 80%, and 7D MK II = 15%---And 5D MK II = 5% in my hands just for emergency

Truss me, Please.
Your friend, Surapon


Dear friend Hector 1970.
Well, I use Opteka camera carrier/ supporter for 2 years, and I love her, because the load of all 80 % weight on my Chest and Belly, only 20% load on my Shoulders. = http://www.amazon.com/Opteka-Carrier-Harness-Holster-Cameras/dp/B00746O3X8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1441296472&sr=8-4&keywords=opteka+camera+strap
 

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surapon

80% BY HEART, 15% BY LENSES AND ONLY 5% BY CAMERA
Aug 2, 2013
2,957
2
72
APEX, NORTH CAROLINA, USA.
Maiaibing said:
surapon said:
Another Sample of EOS 5D SR with Canon TS-E 24 MM. F/ 3.5 L MK II

Nice shots - and impressive gear collection! Do you use Lightroom for your RAW processing?

Dear friend Maiaibing link.
No, I use only Photoshop 5.5 to do all my Post Processing and use Canon Digital Photo Professional ( Come with EOS 5D SR ) do the Raw Processing. Well, For This Big Babe 5D SR = 51 MP, I use High level of JPG = 90% of my regular shooting, and only 10% of my most Love Scenery photos/ Cityscape Photo to use Raw files.
Have a great day, Sir.
Surapon

PS, The Photo attached , The Original = 23,469 X 5,279= 73.9 MB= JPG. file, From 4 Photos combine.
 

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