Get 5DSR now vs. wait for 5D4 for landscape work

jeanluc

EOS RP
Oct 29, 2012
232
140
Hi

I am looking to update my 5D3 for landscape work in the next little while, and my debate has been 5DSR vs. waiting for the 5D4. With the 5d4 likely announced pretty soon, it would appear to be a no-brainer to wait, but doing that realistically means shooting with the 5d3 for quite a while before you could actually have a 5d4 in hand.

I really would like some more resolution, but I also could use any DR improvements as well for high contrast scenes. I guess a Canon D810 is what I hope for.

Anybody who has been currently using the 5DSR have any thoughts on this? My biggest prints are usually 24 x 36.

I am really trying to be patient, while trying to decide if any DR improvement will be worth the trade off of less resolution, or vice versa.

With the 80d looking like it has 24mp, improved DR and likely on-chip ADC, what do people think this means for the 5d4 in terms of DR and resolution?

I also remember reading here about a likely quick upgrade to the 5DSR, which I take as meaning a new higher-DR sensor. Wonder what the time frame on that is.

I think we really don't lose with any of these, but I hope we hear pretty soon.

Thanks!
 

Eldar

EOS R6
Jan 14, 2013
3,250
7
www.flickr.com
We can only speculate what the 5DIV will be like and when it will be available. But if rumours are correct, we should have it within this year.

All I can say is that the 5DSR is here and it´s a fantastic camera. But! The 5D3 is also a fantastic camera and a lot of very good photographers are using that to produce stunning 24-36 prints. So, unless you have a very specific problem with the 5D3, which you believe the 5DSR will solve, I think I would wait. If you need resolution for landscapes, you can always stitch.
 

zim

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Oct 18, 2011
2,129
317
are you willing/able to pay full price on the new 5D4 or like me probably have to wait a good while?
do you have any important events in that time scale that you'd really want that new camera for ?

Personally I'd wait for the 5D4, I am. I don't think those big res camera's are for me but I have to admit I'm imagining what the next gen of 5DSR will be like with the new sensor improvements being shown with the 1DX2 and kinda drooling a bit :)
 

Zeidora

EOS RP
Feb 15, 2015
667
10
Depends what you want. I like my 5DsR. For high contrast issues, I would rather invest in neutral grads and/or pol-filter for specular highlights on leaves, than hope for the next sensor iteration. I doubt the 5d4 will have a significantly larger sensor compared to the 5d3. If file size is OK for you, I'd continue using the 5D3. If you want ability to crop from single shot, then you may want to think about 5DsR. Stitching works for some subjects, for others it does not (long exposure dawn/dusk).

Next question, do you have a secondary purpose for your camera? Each body is a trade-off, so think what are things you can't live without, and what is no loss. E.g., I'd be happy with 0.5 fps, so the 5 fps on the 5DsR is overkill for me, 14 fps on a 1DX is ridiculous. Weather sealing is a toss-up for me; never had a problem with my 5d2, so not expecting any problems from 5DsR. Etc. ...

Do you plan on trading in your 5D3 or keep it as a back-up camera? I use my old 5d2 not on one of my microscopes.

You can always rent a 5DsR for a few days and see whether it makes a difference to you.

Re 5DsRII, I think it will be several years before that happens.
 

jrista

EOL
Dec 3, 2011
5,348
32
jonrista.com
For me, an improvement in dynamic range is more important than raw resolution. More pixels would certainly be nice, and the 5D IV may indeed get some of them. But when it comes to landscapes, I feel I get a lot more value out of having a couple more stops DR than Canon has classically had. Outside of my astrophotography, I haven't found anything that demands DR like landscapes do.

I have been holding out on a new DSLR for a lot longer than I probably should have. I've got the D810, Sony A7r II, and 5D IV on the table as options. If the 5D IV hits the streets with at least as good a DR improvement as the 80D seems it may have, then I'll probably go with the 5D IV. I've already got a solid kit of Canon parts. Most of my astro gear has EOS/EF adapters, etc. However in the end, if the 5D IV doesn't deliver on the DR front...I think the A7r II may end up being my landscape camera of choice.

It's got the DR, the megapixels, and it can be adapted to work with the EF mount. Hard to pass that up, as it's got everything landscapes demand and it's compatible with my existing kit.
 

j-nord

Derp
Feb 16, 2016
467
4
Colorado
Im more or less in the same boat. The mpix/detail jump from the 6D to 5DSR is huge but not everything. DXOmark otherwise shows virtually identical performance between the two. Im holding out and waiting to see what happens with the 5DIV. 28-30mpix (quite optimistic) and some noticable DR and ISO performace bumps seem more ideal than just a massive mpix bump. Another thing to note, which may or may not be relevant to you, is the lower mpix of the 5DIV will be easier to handhold vs 50mpix
 

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
9,073
12,723
j-nord said:
Im more or less in the same boat. The mpix/detail jump from the 6D to 5DSR is huge but not everything. DXOmark otherwise shows virtually identical performance between the two. Im holding out and waiting to see what happens with the 5DIV. 28-30mpix (quite optimistic) and some noticable DR and ISO performace bumps seem more ideal than just a massive mpix bump. Another thing to note, which may or may not be relevant to you, is the lower mpix of the 5DIV will be easier to handhold vs 50mpix

Regarding the relative performance of the 5DS R sensor and that of the 6D, Claff's charts show the 5DS R to have better DR at low iso http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

Regarding hand holding, you get the same shake amount irrespective of the number of pixels. You just lose the advantage of the extra pixels if there is shake, it doesn't get worse than for a lower pixel camera - you can always downsize to the lower pixel size.

The AF on the 6D is a weak point - the 5DS has superb AF, as well as a much better mirror operation.

The 5DS R is a superb piece of kit and is available now, significantly cheaper than when first announced. The 5DIV is a complete unknown at this stage.
 

GMCPhotographics

EOS 5D Mark IV
CR Pro
Aug 22, 2010
1,702
424
51
Uk
www.GMCPhotographics.co.uk
This argument about extended DR...surely it's really a conversation about ISO invariance? It's the ability to push the shadows at low ISO values and get cleaner images? Surely this ability it linked to the sensors ability to control noise in a linear fashion through the iso ranges to the same level that the sensor's sensitivity to the ISO range. On Canon, this invariance is quite bad, shoot at 100 ISO and push the shadows 4 stops and the image has banding and iso noise which is far higher than if the image was shot at 1600 ISO.

If we want a truly expanded DR sensor, then we will probably find our RAW photos will be bland and flat looking. Every expanded image I've seen is usually quite bland looking because it reacts to contrast a lot less. The only reason HDR has strong contrast is because the image has been tone mapped to add a heavy curve to make it look more realistic to our eyes. If we ever get a camera with say 20 stops of DR...we'll all need to do a lot more post production to make our images pop and have some life to them. High DR really means very flat but very malleable RAWS files that can really be tortured in Post prod before blowing out highlights or blocking up the blacks.
 

ksgal

EOS M6 Mark II
Oct 16, 2014
79
0
www.hiddenrockranch.com
jeanluc said:
Hi

I am looking to update my 5D3 for landscape work in the next little while, and my debate has been 5DSR vs. waiting for the 5D4. With the 5d4 likely announced pretty soon, it would appear to be a no-brainer to wait, but doing that realistically means shooting with the 5d3 for quite a while before you could actually have a 5d4 in hand.

I really would like some more resolution, but I also could use any DR improvements as well for high contrast scenes. I guess a Canon D810 is what I hope for.

Anybody who has been currently using the 5DSR have any thoughts on this? My biggest prints are usually 24 x 36.

I am really trying to be patient, while trying to decide if any DR improvement will be worth the trade off of less resolution, or vice versa.

With the 80d looking like it has 24mp, improved DR and likely on-chip ADC, what do people think this means for the 5d4 in terms of DR and resolution?

I also remember reading here about a likely quick upgrade to the 5DSR, which I take as meaning a new higher-DR sensor. Wonder what the time frame on that is.

I think we really don't lose with any of these, but I hope we hear pretty soon.

Thanks!

Personally, if you have the computer horsepower to handle the files, then I would do the upgrade

Click on the 5DIII and the 5Dsr and compare the low DR

DR range comparison, click each on the menu on the right

Maybe find a used 5Dsr someone decided they didn't need all those mp and then turn and sell that if the 5D4/x/??? ends up being all that and a bag of chips.

I'm guessing the 5D4/x/??? will not have near that many MP.. 24-28 tops. The 5Dsr is an improvment to the 5DIII in both resolution and DR, so you will see a difference in your files, and if the DR isn't improved enough in the latest 5D?? itteration, you'll wish you had done it sooner.

So I'd say go for a used body, and sell for the next one, or keep if you like the 50MP resolution and the DR isn't enough of an improvment.
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,365
638
I got the 5DSR last year.
I had thought of waiting for the 5D IV.
My advice would be to wait. The 5DSR for me is really not better than the 5DIII.
It does produce very detailed files when you carefully take the photo (tripod, remote).
Are the photos any better in the end, I don't think so.
It's a good camera but for more specialised use.

I prefer my 5DIII which is a much better all rounder.
It's ISO performance is better.
I'm told here if I downsample in DPP I should get a slightly better ISO result for the 5DSR but out of the camera the 5DIII has a better ISO performance.

The file size on the 5DSR is a practical problem.
You'll be upgrading the size of your memory card and hard drive.
You'll probably have to upgrade your laptop.
I'm surprised how this has impacted me.
Backing up is now more important than ever to free up space.

The 5DIII is so good I'll be really interested in how much improvement they actually get out of it.
The 5DII to 5DIII was a worthwhile upgrade because the 5DII had flaws (focusing etc).
The 5DIII while maybe not perfect is a great all round camera.
If you can't take good photos with it then you should give up.
I am hoping the 5DIV has some sort of wow factor but I don't see it coming, marginal improvements I'd say (and not the wow being 4K - I'm at a loss why people would desire this, HD produces large enough files already, 4K shaky/jello is surely worse than HD shaky/jello, but I'm not a big video person, it may be important to people who love to shoot video)
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,365
638
Interesting comment that. I am one of those who wants more DR (maybe it's the climate in my country we get alot of high contrast lighting conditions - lots of people here seem to think if you expose correctly you'll get correct exposure). If I get my wish so I might get very bland images out of the camera. Maybe I should stick to Lee Filters.

GMCPhotographics said:
If we want a truly expanded DR sensor, then we will probably find our RAW photos will be bland and flat looking. Every expanded image I've seen is usually quite bland looking because it reacts to contrast a lot less. The only reason HDR has strong contrast is because the image has been tone mapped to add a heavy curve to make it look more realistic to our eyes. If we ever get a camera with say 20 stops of DR...we'll all need to do a lot more post production to make our images pop and have some life to them. High DR really means very flat but very malleable RAWS files that can really be tortured in Post prod before blowing out highlights or blocking up the blacks.
 

Memdroid

EOS 90D
Nov 12, 2013
165
85
I have to say, the 5Ds is a different beast when you are using it consistently. I have an 1Dx and 5D3 as my two staple cameras that I use on every assignment. Initially, I bought the 5Dsr for the giant resolution bump and insane cropping ability and see what the fuss was about. I really did not need it and I am not that much of an pixel peeper either, I just wanted to have it for fun and maybe replace my 5D3 with it eventually. Turns out I enjoy the camera more and more than my other two bodies. The files you can get it from it is very addictive!
The colors and resolution is absolutely insane! I considered selling my 5D3 but I could not part with the it because of sentimental reasons, so it remains in the bag for a while.
Only thing is the file handling, these are huge but very manageable on a decent computer and the camera is slightly slower than the 5D3 when viewing and zooming images. But don't let these things scare you off, you get used to it very fast!
Also, the higher ISO files area a little noisier than the 5D3. It is a lot more controllable than you think and you gain 30 million more pixels to clean the images with and still have a giant resolution image!
I can't comment on DR as I don't really have a problem with that issue, but you can definitely torture them more on a decently exposed file.
 

Daan Stam

EOS M6 Mark II
Apr 17, 2015
97
15
20
Netherlands
depends on what you shoot other than landscape for landscape it is really good
for sports and wildlife i would rather wait
night you probably also wait
but day universal it will probably be just fine
or if you do video i hope the 5dmk4 has 4k but if you do that you do need a really good computer to take the files
 

AlanF

Stay at home
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
9,073
12,723
daaningrid said:
depends on what you shoot other than landscape for landscape it is really good
for sports and wildlife i would rather wait
night you probably also wait
but day universal it will probably be just fine
or if you do video i hope the 5dmk4 has 4k but if you do that you do need a really good computer to take the files

I use it for wild life - you have the resolution of a 7DII and the field of view of full frame. I don't need the fps of a machine gun and the 5DS R is fast enough.
 

surapon

80% BY HEART, 15% BY LENSES AND ONLY 5% BY CAMERA
Aug 2, 2013
2,957
2
72
APEX, NORTH CAROLINA, USA.
Dear Friend, jeanluc.
Please do not wait---Human life are very short------Get Canon EOS 5DSR Now for Landscape/ Cityscape Photography, Plus Canon TS-E 24 MM. F/ 3.5 L MK II tilt & Shift Lens----- And That are heaven on your Hand. I already took 3 Cameras 5D MK II, 7D MK II and EOS 5D SR with 12 Lenses a round the world on February, 2016 14 days, and I use 5D SR = 80%, and 7D MK II = 15%---And 5D MK II = 5% in my hands just for emergency

Truss me, Please.
Your friend, Surapon
 

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surapon

80% BY HEART, 15% BY LENSES AND ONLY 5% BY CAMERA
Aug 2, 2013
2,957
2
72
APEX, NORTH CAROLINA, USA.
Another Sample of EOS 5D SR with Canon TS-E 24 MM. F/ 3.5 L MK II
 

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Normalnorm

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2012
751
378
GMCPhotographics said:
If we want a truly expanded DR sensor, then we will probably find our RAW photos will be bland and flat looking.

This true. That is why PP is important.
This also explains why so many comment glowingly on the in camera JPG engines of Olympus and Fuji.

When shooting film, our negatives captured the DR of a scene depending on our exposure and processing. By creating a neg that captured a very wide range of tones we could then decide at printing which tones to accent and which ones to restrain or hide.
IOW get it all, keep what you need for the final image. Throw away the rest.

Keeping all the tones in a final image generally makes for a flat, drab image.

PP and the JPG engines of cameras give us the tones that make a pleasing image.
 

Hector1970

EOS R
CR Pro
Mar 22, 2012
1,365
638
Do you not get neck strain Surapon from all the cameras? I have to use a side strap even when it's just one camera. Although I recommended waiting I think Surapon's point it valid. Maybe screw it and just do it. There's always a better camera around the corner. You could wait or be enjoying the 5DSR now.

surapon said:
Dear Friend, jeanluc.
Please do not wait---Human life are very short------Get Canon EOS 5DSR Now for Landscape/ Cityscape Photography, Plus Canon TS-E 24 MM. F/ 3.5 L MK II tilt & Shift Lens----- And That are heaven on your Hand. I already took 3 Cameras 5D MK II, 7D MK II and EOS 5D SR with 12 Lenses a round the world on February, 2016 14 days, and I use 5D SR = 80%, and 7D MK II = 15%---And 5D MK II = 5% in my hands just for emergency

Truss me, Please.
Your friend, Surapon
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
We have been graced with new Surapon pictures of Surapon.

The world is good.

#ifthekitchensinkhadastraphewouldwearit #alwaysprepared #inspired

- A
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
8,617
1,642
My take for the OP:

  • If you only shoot landscapes on a tripod in LiveView, the A7R II is admittedly a bit extreme of a move -- new charger, new L plate, new menus, new ergonomics, adaptors, etc. -- but it will serve you fine. It's a very highly regarded sensor that balances DR / high ISO / detail pretty darn well.

  • If you want to stay with Canon and largely will shoot tripod / daytime landscape at ISO 100, I fail to see how even two more stops of DR (which I'm not certain you are going to get) is worth throwing away all those pixels. I'd choose the detail of the 5DSR. Keep in mind that even with two more stops of DR, the camera still can't remotely reel in everything your eyes can see, and you'll still be battling bright skies or bright lighting with bracketed shots or grads. If it's just landscapes, stick with detail.

  • If you want a do-everything workhorse and shoot occasional landscapes, want higher FPS or better AF, need better video, or frequently shoot at high ISO, I'd put all my bets on the 5D4. That camera will be an 8 or 9 out of 10 at everything, though you won't have 50 MP output.

  • If you never take anything to print and you never crop your shots (very very unlikely, I admit), the pixels of the 5DSR are wasted on you.

- A