Getting a little bit Fed Up...

[thepancakeman]

So which way would you rather have it? Announcement of a camera which you cannot get your hands on, or a company which says we're not going to announce the camera until we can ship it? With either policy you don't get your hands on a new camera.

Personally, I like a little lead time knowing what a coming product is. That way I can either drool and dream or decide "hey, nothing there worth waiting for, I'll get a current model."

Waiting until it's available with a "surprise, here it is!" is still an anouncement, and I'm still not likely to buy right away just because I need some time to digest what exactly the surprise product is.

 

[nex-s]

From a company point of view I believe it is way better not to say anything about the upcoming product, the date it is coming and whether there will be one whatsoever. Look at Apple, there is so little information about their upcoming products compared to other companies and hence loads of people are still buying the iPhone 4 now, when we already know, that there will be a new one in september. If there is no information about anything, people don't usually see the point of waiting and therefore buy a current product/model and bring the company profit. If they knew something much better is coming out in half a year or a year maybe, they might just save the money and wait for it which is not good for the company.

For us, of course, it is better to know everything, so we can decide what to do and how to save money. But we have to understand that any companies aim is to have as much profit as it possibly can.

 

[WarStreet]

It is a disaster both for the company and eventually on the customer if companies like Canon officially announce a replacement model very early. If it is a replacement product, expected sales of current model decreases and also expected sales of accessories too. The predicted cost/pricing/replacing cycle/profit won't be as expected.

Very few users read and care about rumors, and this won't do any harm to Canon, but an official announcement will harm the company.

Staff that are not replacement of a current model, can be mentioned much before. An example of this is the 200-400 lens. Canon mentioned and showed pictures about this lens before an official announcement. This is positive for the company, especially since the competition already have such a lens.

Most decisions from the company are done for the customer's advantage even though it might look otherwise. Specs/pricing/timing is an art, and companies like Canon have to make decisions to satisfy the biggest number of customers which translates to profit. Ok, so cutting the prices by half is good for the customer ? No if it is not feasible for the company, which translates to a weaker future for us users. It is a balance. For example, releasing a camera 2 months after the competition with better specs. The competition clients will be happy for 2 months, and the Canon clients will be happier for 3 years, and during these 3 years, reviews/comparison will give Canon an advantage which again translates to better future products for us users.

Sorry to sound strange, but I want to show that this is not an easy subject. I am waiting for a future FF camera too and I understand the frustration.

 

[Ghostdive]

It is a disaster both for the company and eventually on the customer if companies like Canon officially announce a replacement model very early. If it is a replacement product, expected sales of current model decreases and also expected sales of accessories too. The predicted cost/pricing/replacing cycle/profit won't be as expected.

Very few users read and care about rumors, and this won't do any harm to Canon, but an official announcement will harm the company.

Staff that are not replacement of a current model, can be mentioned much before. An example of this is the 200-400 lens. Canon mentioned and showed pictures about this lens before an official announcement. This is positive for the company, especially since the competition already have such a lens.

Most decisions from the company are done for the customer's advantage even though it might look otherwise. Specs/pricing/timing is an art, and companies like Canon have to make decisions to satisfy the biggest number of customers which translates to profit. Ok, so cutting the prices by half is good for the customer ? No if it is not feasible for the company, which translates to a weaker future for us users. It is a balance. For example, releasing a camera 2 months after the competition with better specs. The competition clients will be happy for 2 months, and the Canon clients will be happier for 3 years, and during these 3 years, reviews/comparison will give Canon an advantage which again translates to better future products for us users.

Sorry to sound strange, but I want to show that this is not an easy subject. I am waiting for a future FF camera too and I understand the frustration.

I dont' think its possible to change specs yet . Did someone think, if they need 2-3 years, to develop a new camera, than they can change some specs within two month? Lets say nikon push now an 40mp sensor on here highendmodel and canon only have an 36mp sensor, or on have 10 fps and the other then must have 12 fps? I don't thin the opposit company can develop an new sensor or chip to the market within two month.

I think they can make changes in the software, but not in the hardware within an short timeframe.

Lets see what the next days or weeks comes
Wait also for an new camera. If the price is not to high, i'll go to the 1D line (basically weathersealing, maybe some other specs are also nice too). If its to much, the direction would be the 5D.

 

[WarStreet]

I dont' think its possible to change specs yet . Did someone think, if they need 2-3 years, to develop a new camera, than they can change some specs within two month?

I don't think they can do it neither. I think that the development of a product consists from multiple versions with small differences, rather than just one.

 

[7enderbender]

Thank you Canon

Is it just me or does it feel like Canon is dragging their heels in getting back as the market leader in the Pro SLR market? Maybe I should wait till September to point fingers, but I am really getting disillusioned with Canon. I am doing a lot of pro golf events for magazines and studio work. After a lot of saving and hard work I got enough money together in December last year to move to the 1Ds range and I knew buying one then would be a mistake - so I waited. There were times I thought I should just get a 1D, but there's no stock... So I am still waiting.

Now reading things like "However, we’re told Canon is more interested in getting production up to 100% before announcing new EOS products" is not really the type of news I want to read...

Am I the only one who feels this way? Is Nikon the new leader? (I know swearing is not allowed - but hey, sometimes you need to get things of your chest)

Maybe I just need some feedback from fellow Canon users before I decide to switch to the yellow brand...

I think people need to stop complaining about things that are really non-issues. Last time I checked, Canon was and remained the market leader and actually gained a little over Nikon in 2010. Not that it matters.

Pros will use whatever is available and fits their needs and budget. I mean, I am "just" an amateur photographer because I make my living in a different industry and, hence, use photography, music and sports as an outlet for my own enjoyment. But I still follow what goes on in those industries so I think I may be able to make a valid point here.

So, if anyone paid me to take pictures at pro gold events I'd bring whatever I need for that given that I'd be paid accordingly. You need a pro camera now or yesterday? Why not buy which ever you prefer and that fits your lenses? Who cares if its the red or yellow brand? And if for whatever reason you don't want to buy a current model you can always buy used or rent for specific jobs. That's what pros do.

The complaining about stuff and the whining how expensive and insufficient it all is will mostly come from non-pros with nothing better to do. Which makes sense to some degree, because $10,000 in camera gear is actually A LOT of money for a hobby. For paid work it's not. Or when did you here the last time that the pizza delivery guy complained about the cost of his 1998 Corolla? Probably in the same ball park as a few pro photography tools. Yes, to us amateurs gear is expensive. For pros the tools are actually pretty cheap compared to the equipment cost in other industries.

One more thing: instead of complaining about Canon/Nikon we should be grateful that they are (still) around and catering to pros as well as amateurs. Good stuff for actually pretty low prices given that there are really are no high grade 35mm alternatives available in the digital age. Try digital medium or large format...

We're just lucky that Canon still seems to be interested in maintaining its image as a professional photography company - despite the fact that most of their revenue comes from office machines and consumer grade P&S cameras. So we might want to scale back the negative commentary a bit. How about "Thank you Canon. Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see what next thing you cook up that is only for a small fraction of your market and has cost you a fortune to develop!"

 

[akiskev]

Thank you Canon. Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see what next thing you cook up that is only for a small fraction of your market and has cost you a fortune to develop!

In fact I think I'll donate them a couple of thousand euros because they are so loyal to us consumers!

 

[gene_can_sing]

As a video guy, I've been fed up for a long time waiting for fixes to minor problems (moire and aliasing) that competitors have solved already (Panasonic and Sony). But this time, I think Canon might actually release something. It's too hard for me to switch as I have to much Canon equipment.

As for not being able re-tweak the line after the Nikon and Sony announcements, I think Canon has all their bases covered. I'm certain they have a number of different proto-types with different features and mega pixels, and since they are announcing after Sony and Nikon, they will use the proto-type that best matches or exceeds the competition.

Canon can move slow because there is not much competition in the high end camera business. Nikon is the only major competitor at this point, but I think the real threat will come from Sony if Sony wants to go all out. Sony has more money than Canon and Nikon combined + much more additional.

I hope Sony gives Canon the wake up call they need to start actually releasing new DSLRs that are worth buying. Competition is good, and unlike the computer industry, there is a serious lack of it in cameras.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Re: Thank you Canon

We're just lucky that Canon still seems to be interested in maintaining its image as a professional photography company - despite the fact that most of their revenue comes from office machines and consumer grade P&S cameras.

I don't think that's entirely true. You're right that office machines are the largest chunk, but in 1Q2011, approximately 35% of Canon's revenue came from their camera division. Canon sells a lot more P&S than dSLRs, with the latter only represent around of 20% of uint sales. But units don't matter, value does - and dSLRs and lenses make up around 70% of revenues from the camera division. So, that means something on the order of 25% of Canon's sales revenue comes from their dSLR lines. Granted, the vast majority of that is the Rebel/xxxD line, but still, they have a strong incentive to maintain position as a market leader, and the cache of the pro lines is a part of that effort.

For the numbers, see Canon's 1Q2011 report.

 

[7enderbender]

Re: Thank you Canon

We're just lucky that Canon still seems to be interested in maintaining its image as a professional photography company - despite the fact that most of their revenue comes from office machines and consumer grade P&S cameras.

I don't think that's entirely true. You're right that office machines are the largest chunk, but in 1Q2011, approximately 35% of Canon's revenue came from their camera division. Canon sells a lot more P&S than dSLRs, with the latter only represent around of 20% of uint sales. But units don't matter, value does - and dSLRs and lenses make up around 70% of revenues from the camera division. So, that means something on the order of 25% of Canon's sales revenue comes from their dSLR lines. Granted, the vast majority of that is the Rebel/xxxD line, but still, they have a strong incentive to maintain position as a market leader, and the cache of the pro lines is a part of that effort.

For the numbers, see Canon's 1Q2011 report.

Exactly right. I've been looking for the actual details on the figures in their financial statements but didn't quite find what I was looking for. But I'm on the same page with you, only that I counted the Rebel series as part of my broad statement about "P&S" cameras. Whatever you want to call the consumer and "pro-sumer" segment. It gets even more confusing because Canon actually puts all camera related items under "consumer".

Revenue alone is not helping us either since we'd need to know what the actual profit on the 1-series cameras is. In the big picture probably not a lot. But of course they benefit from image/cache and trickle-down technology.

So, really. It's all good in the end. They've been a leader in the pro and consumer camera market for quite a while, just survived an earthquake and the aftermath of a national catastrophe and obviously still working on bringing to market a few more big ticket items. What's the rush? The current line-up of gear obviously works well at all levels.

 

[hhelmbold]

Wow... never meant to shake the bee hive Also just want to make it clear that I am not really "Fed Up" with Canon... more Fed Up with waiting and being unsure. And yes... maybe it's not right being so anxious, but hey - if it wasn't for us over eager people - companies would take years before bringing out new stuff

Personally, I like a little lead time knowing what a coming product is. That way I can either drool and dream or decide "hey, nothing there worth waiting for, I'll get a current model."

I have to agree with this - but then I must say, if I think about other announcements from Canon, they have released some info well in advance. When it's not such a big upgrade. So I suppose the fact that we have to wait longer, must mean something good is coming

 

[te4o]

Like in Nature it is about competition - if a pro looses ground because his competition makes better pictures/videos with updated gear - he just needs investing again (provided funding available). Buy always the latest modell and sell the used one to us hobbyists. If a pro is established and doesn't suffer loss of ground, pro can wait, companies too. If a pro waits and looses ground - he is not a pro anymore.

All the rest of the trigger-clicker community is like readers on a writers festival.
Cheers

 

[awinphoto]

If a pro waits and looses ground - he is not a pro anymore.

Cheers

spoken by a non pro? =)

 

[thepancakeman]

From a "not a pro"--I've been selling some shots from triathlons and bike races this summer, and the wait for equipment has nothing to do with being left behind--a better AF, more frames/second, better high iso performance and more MP would allow me to catch more keeper shots and thus the potential for more sales.

And THAT is why I'm so anxious.

P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait.

 

[Flake]

Like in Nature it is about competition - if a pro looses ground because his competition makes better pictures/videos with updated gear - he just needs investing again (provided funding available). Buy always the latest modell and sell the used one to us hobbyists. If a pro is established and doesn't suffer loss of ground, pro can wait, companies too. If a pro waits and looses ground - he is not a pro anymore.

All the rest of the trigger-clicker community is like readers on a writers festival.
Cheers

You'd have to have really appalling gear for that to make a difference, even the old 1Ds is still being used as a pro body today, and just to reiterate it's not the gear which makes a photographer good, it's the other way around!

I would never buy the latest kit, the problem is that it takes an age for Adobe & other software providers to issue their RAW / ACR updates, meaning that you have a camera which for professional use is just about useless. Oh I hear the cry you can convert to DNG! yeah well try converting 1000 files manually because DPP is the only software which is useable (yes I know it will batch them, but it's another unecessary step) then working through them all as DNG through the workflow software. If you're lucky the only glitch will be the software / firmware (A la 5D MkII) but it could involve a workshop visit (A la Nikon D5000 twice!).

A wait for 6 - 12 months on any new camera body is good advice - and the price usually drops to a more sensible level too.

 

[pedro]

"A wait for 6 - 12 months on any new camera body is good advice - and the price usually drops to a more sensible level too."


Plus one. I am going to wait at least 1.5 years.

 

[EYEONE]

P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait.

Gotta turn the sharpness up on the presents. It does have a softness issue but it can be extremely sharp.

 

[thepancakeman]

P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait.

Gotta turn the sharpness up on the presents. It does have a softness issue but it can be extremely sharp.

I shoot in RAW and it was my understanding that sharpness has no effect on RAW. Maybe I'm wrong on that??

 

[april]

P.S. Tried a 7D and it had most of the above but I found the images were softer than on my (wife's) 40D so I decided to wait.
[/quote]

i assume you shoot with the 7D; who shoot with 40D? if it was your wife shooting at the same subject you were shooting with the 7D then i'm sure the 40D will get a slight edge in sharpness but that's not because of the camera most probably it's because men tend to be more shaky than women and that is why in semicon industry they only hire women in resoldering microchips

 

[te4o]

With the Zeiss I had to turnthe sharpness preset down - it looked unnatural otherwise. I think it matters even in RAWbecause your converter reads this and applies the sharpness rules. At least that's what I understood from neuro's explanations some time ago but I may still not have got it right.
I got the 40D just after it ran out for the same reasons as mentioned above but I am NOT ambitious.
Still no major improvement worth an upgrade around for a
Simple Clicker like me. The wait is exciting but not hurting...