Help deciding between BMCC and C100 for RE Listing Videos

[JasonATL]

The camera handles like crap, it's really heavy and even with the handles didn't feel great. Rent one and check it out, but make sure you try to edit some of the footage, even 60 seconds of footage and you'll see really quick what a pain it is. Believe me I was as pumped about this camera as anyone and mine actually came in last week but I passed on it. Might get the MFT in the future but there are just too many issues with the EF.

And some of the posters are giving excellent feedback on the camera itself, but I'm looking at the camera AND what you'll be using it for (which is arguably more important). You're not doing occasional studio shoots, you're doing real estate videos, which means you'll be shooting a lot and very frequently. Battery life would also be a big issue in your case, since the internal battery lasts maybe an hour. Also consider that you won't be shooting real estate videos in 2.5K RAW, it's just going to slow you down way too much, so try and take that spec out of the equation and look at it as just 1080p ProRes.

Fair points, all. I don't find raw as cumbersome as you seemed to. Perhaps my two-year-old machine is faster than the one you had available. The dynamic range of this camera still shows in the 10-bit 4:2:2 encoded files. Again, ProRes or DNxHD puts little extra burden on the workflow than the C100. Perhaps a bit more storage space, but with a benefit.

You point about the camera handling different than a proper video cam or a DSLR is also fair. It is clunky. A shoulder rig, slider, or tripod are a must. Whether Cgdillan uses these anyway is something he must consider.

Curious as to what issues the MFT version overcomes for you, given the issues you claim of the camera? None of those issues are changed in the MFT version. Is it just that the extra benefits of the MFT lenses (e.g., wider and/or faster) helps to further justify putting up with the costs you cite? I can understand that. Otherwise, you seemed very negative on the camera for certain reasons, only then to say that you might get one again in the future when none of those issues will be addressed.

In the end, I agree with you Axilrod. For a day-in, day-out workhorse (perhaps closer to run'n'gun), these issues might outweigh the image. A camera must be practical for its purpose. That's why my initial reaction to the OP was quite negative on the issue. Until I saw what I saw on my monitor. I'm just in love with the image this camera produces.

 

[Cgdillan]

The camera handles like crap, it's really heavy and even with the handles didn't feel great. Rent one and check it out, but make sure you try to edit some of the footage, even 60 seconds of footage and you'll see really quick what a pain it is. Believe me I was as pumped about this camera as anyone and mine actually came in last week but I passed on it. Might get the MFT in the future but there are just too many issues with the EF.

And some of the posters are giving excellent feedback on the camera itself, but I'm looking at the camera AND what you'll be using it for (which is arguably more important). You're not doing occasional studio shoots, you're doing real estate videos, which means you'll be shooting a lot and very frequently. Battery life would also be a big issue in your case, since the internal battery lasts maybe an hour. Also consider that you won't be shooting real estate videos in 2.5K RAW, it's just going to slow you down way too much, so try and take that spec out of the equation and look at it as just 1080p ProRes.

Fair points, all. I don't find raw as cumbersome as you seemed to. Perhaps my two-year-old machine is faster than the one you had available. The dynamic range of this camera still shows in the 10-bit 4:2:2 encoded files. Again, ProRes or DNxHD puts little extra burden on the workflow than the C100. Perhaps a bit more storage space, but with a benefit.

You point about the camera handling different than a proper video cam or a DSLR is also fair. It is clunky. A shoulder rig, slider, or tripod are a must. Whether Cgdillan uses these anyway is something he must consider.

Curious as to what issues the MFT version overcomes for you, given the issues you claim of the camera? None of those issues are changed in the MFT version. Is it just that the extra benefits of the MFT lenses (e.g., wider and/or faster) helps to further justify putting up with the costs you cite? I can understand that. Otherwise, you seemed very negative on the camera for certain reasons, only then to say that you might get one again in the future when none of those issues will be addressed.

In the end, I agree with you Axilrod. For a day-in, day-out workhorse (perhaps closer to run'n'gun), these issues might outweigh the image. A camera must be practical for its purpose. That's why my initial reaction to the OP was quite negative on the issue. Until I saw what I saw on my monitor. I'm just in love with the image this camera produces.

These are all great points to mention. I've been using my 5D3 for all my video work and for RE video i've been really feeling like I need more DR in my videos. I could care less about the 2.5K since the video will be probably viewed at 720p through vimeo. But the raw codec and extra DR I believe would greatly help my image, as well as my pride in my work. I was pretty turned off at first with all the "issues" the BMCC has, but I have totally fallen for the image it produces. I generally use Tripod, Glidecam, and Slider for stabilizations in my RE videos. I downloaded some test footage from the camera and FCP X actually took the .dng files in there native form wonderfully and the rendered extremely fast. I was very impressed. So I'm thinking towards the BMCC now over the C100 (I was thinking C100 over 5d3 for the extra dr and sharper image) as long as I can get in the house, shoot the proper exposure for each room, and get out. Usually takes about an hour to shoot a house up to 3,500 SF.

 

[Cgdillan]

also, I dump the footage after the video is complete and the client is happy, so if i keep one 2TB hard drive on Thunderbolt or Esata then I should do pretty well with storage space shooting one house at a time.

 

[cookinghusband]

A lots of friends have choose the C100 because of its more managable file format, especially if you are using a Mac. Seems like the the codec for for Mac is not optimised for 4K or any thing other than basic 1920x1080x25p.

Also file size and storage will be a great problem. Frequently buying 3T/4T HDD to store my footage, and copy them back to the SSD internal disk for editing. USB 3.0 is just marginally usable, with thunderbolt have interchangability probelm between mac and Win.

My spare pocket money just run down the drain after buying the 1DC because I need to keep buying memory cards and HDD and upgrade my worksation and software to deal with the large fiel from 4K video

 

[cayenne]

also, I dump the footage after the video is complete and the client is happy, so if i keep one 2TB hard drive on Thunderbolt or Esata then I should do pretty well with storage space shooting one house at a time.

Hey, just wondering, if since the BM 4K camera was announced, and also the BM Pocket Cinema camera.....have you reconsidered going BM and getting one of these cameras?

Just curious,

C

 

[Cgdillan]

also, I dump the footage after the video is complete and the client is happy, so if i keep one 2TB hard drive on Thunderbolt or Esata then I should do pretty well with storage space shooting one house at a time.

Hey, just wondering, if since the BM 4K camera was announced, and also the BM Pocket Cinema camera.....have you reconsidered going BM and getting one of these cameras?

Just curious,

C

Yessir. I pre-ordered the pocket camera and will be using it with a Metabones Speed Booster and my Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8. I am also on the look out for a decent 1" c-mount super wide angle lens 5-7mm range.

 

[cayenne]

also, I dump the footage after the video is complete and the client is happy, so if i keep one 2TB hard drive on Thunderbolt or Esata then I should do pretty well with storage space shooting one house at a time.

Hey, just wondering, if since the BM 4K camera was announced, and also the BM Pocket Cinema camera.....have you reconsidered going BM and getting one of these cameras?

Just curious,

C

Yessir. I pre-ordered the pocket camera and will be using it with a Metabones Speed Booster and my Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8. I am also on the look out for a decent 1" c-mount super wide angle lens 5-7mm range.

Too Cool!!

PLEASE, do a post, maybe this thread, to give a report on how it all works,and of course, some footage.


I'm looking to go this route too.
I didn't think the Speed Booster was out yet, or was that just for Canon lenses it isn't out for?
I'm trying to learn the differences and what I would need for the BMPC....I am a bit of a noob, and only know what EF focal lengths are like..not sure how to relate them to the lenses for MFT lenses...etc.

Thanks!!

c

 

[Cgdillan]

also, I dump the footage after the video is complete and the client is happy, so if i keep one 2TB hard drive on Thunderbolt or Esata then I should do pretty well with storage space shooting one house at a time.

Hey, just wondering, if since the BM 4K camera was announced, and also the BM Pocket Cinema camera.....have you reconsidered going BM and getting one of these cameras?

Just curious,

C

Yessir. I pre-ordered the pocket camera and will be using it with a Metabones Speed Booster and my Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8. I am also on the look out for a decent 1" c-mount super wide angle lens 5-7mm range.

Too Cool!!

PLEASE, do a post, maybe this thread, to give a report on how it all works,and of course, some footage.


I'm looking to go this route too.
I didn't think the Speed Booster was out yet, or was that just for Canon lenses it isn't out for?
I'm trying to learn the differences and what I would need for the BMPC....I am a bit of a noob, and only know what EF focal lengths are like..not sure how to relate them to the lenses for MFT lenses...etc.

Thanks!!

c

The speed booster was announced, but is not available yet for MFT and Canon combo. Basically, if you have a FF canon camera and you adapt your lenses to the BMPCC, just multiply your lens "mm" by three. That how tight the lens will be. so a 100mm lens on a FF Canon camera is 100mm but on the pocket camera it would look like a 300mm. and with the speed booster is would look like a 200mm.

Now due to some very unexpected news, releases, and possibilities from magic lantern in the last week, my BMPCC is in danger of being cancelled. Magic Lantern has announced their ability of recording 24p continuos RAW video to CF cards on the 5D mkIII with likely no heat issues. If they get this stabilized, then I may be sticking to my 5D mkIII for my RE video work and canceling my black magic pre-order. We shall see what ML brings us. The way I see it, Magic Lantern has 2 months or so to polish up the raw video from 5d mkIII and win me back from Black Magic. I doubt there are any decent lenses sub $1K that would give me the quality I have with my 5d3 and bower 14mm. So to not have to invest further and just upgrade to better CF cards would be great!

 

[kyswarts]

These are all great points to mention. I've been using my 5D3 for all my video work and for RE video i've been really feeling like I need more DR in my videos. I could care less about the 2.5K since the video will be probably viewed at 720p through vimeo. But the raw codec and extra DR I believe would greatly help my image, as well as my pride in my work. I was pretty turned off at first with all the "issues" the BMCC has, but I have totally fallen for the image it produces. I generally use Tripod, Glidecam, and Slider for stabilizations in my RE videos. I downloaded some test footage from the camera and FCP X actually took the .dng files in there native form wonderfully and the rendered extremely fast. I was very impressed. So I'm thinking towards the BMCC now over the C100 (I was thinking C100 over 5d3 for the extra dr and sharper image) as long as I can get in the house, shoot the proper exposure for each room, and get out. Usually takes about an hour to shoot a house up to 3,500 SF.

You already have the camera you need! Magic Lantern does HDR video on the 5D3 and they just announced RAW capabilities on 5D3 and possibly 5D2.... don't spend the extra money. Check out this ML HDR tutorial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuhVZWaOVOY#ws

If you need to see HDR footage from the 5D3 look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjtGenTSfX8#ws


And finally check out this week's announcement concerning RAW capabilities with the 5D3:

http://www.eoshd.com/content/10324/big-news-hands-on-with-continuous-raw-recording-on-canon-5d-mark-iii

Also you can check out alex4d who has created a generator to make the workflow in FCPX really easy with ML HDR files:

http://alex4d.wordpress.com/2012/01/03/ml-u-hdr-compose-fcpx-plug-in/

 

[cayenne]

also, I dump the footage after the video is complete and the client is happy, so if i keep one 2TB hard drive on Thunderbolt or Esata then I should do pretty well with storage space shooting one house at a time.

Hey, just wondering, if since the BM 4K camera was announced, and also the BM Pocket Cinema camera.....have you reconsidered going BM and getting one of these cameras?

Just curious,

C

Yessir. I pre-ordered the pocket camera and will be using it with a Metabones Speed Booster and my Tokina 11-16mm f/2.8. I am also on the look out for a decent 1" c-mount super wide angle lens 5-7mm range.

Too Cool!!

PLEASE, do a post, maybe this thread, to give a report on how it all works,and of course, some footage.


I'm looking to go this route too.
I didn't think the Speed Booster was out yet, or was that just for Canon lenses it isn't out for?
I'm trying to learn the differences and what I would need for the BMPC....I am a bit of a noob, and only know what EF focal lengths are like..not sure how to relate them to the lenses for MFT lenses...etc.

Thanks!!

c

The speed booster was announced, but is not available yet for MFT and Canon combo. Basically, if you have a FF canon camera and you adapt your lenses to the BMPCC, just multiply your lens "mm" by three. That how tight the lens will be. so a 100mm lens on a FF Canon camera is 100mm but on the pocket camera it would look like a 300mm. and with the speed booster is would look like a 200mm.

Now due to some very unexpected news, releases, and possibilities from magic lantern in the last week, my BMPCC is in danger of being cancelled. Magic Lantern has announced their ability of recording 24p continuos RAW video to CF cards on the 5D mkIII with likely no heat issues. If they get this stabilized, then I may be sticking to my 5D mkIII for my RE video work and canceling my black magic pre-order. We shall see what ML brings us. The way I see it, Magic Lantern has 2 months or so to polish up the raw video from 5d mkIII and win me back from Black Magic. I doubt there are any decent lenses sub $1K that would give me the quality I have with my 5d3 and bower 14mm. So to not have to invest further and just upgrade to better CF cards would be great!

I'm excited about this ML possibility too!

I have the Rokinon version of your Bower 14mm...very fun lens for a bargain price!!

I would like to try to break into the Real Estate video business, and I've been a big fan of your posts, VERY good stuff. I'm trying to learn by the C.A.S.E method (Copy And Steal Everything)...haha.

But seriously, I'm learning a lot from what you've posted, both posts and videos.

I believe we're in different parts of the US, I'm in the New Orleans area...so,we'd have no competion, so I was wondering if you had any advice on how to get started...what all equipment and processes you use...

I have a slider, an optonika (sp?) cheap-o steadi-cam....manfrotto monopod and tripod...and use FCPX for editing.

Do you use the 14mm a lot? What other lenses do you use? Are you using HDR (I think I recall a post or two showing you did, especially to help with keeping from blowing out highlights in a room from windows, etc).
Are you doing HDR video too?

Any advice or pointers welcome.

I have a couple of contacts in local realestate, but I wanna have my story together before approaching them. I might try to shoot a couple of friends' homes first to put an example video together.

What is the going rate for a real estate video shoot? Do you sign contracts keeping your rights to the video or do you sell those?

I'm also a bit of a techie...I was thinking of offering the videos to be hosted from my home business office servers...I have a business ISP account so I'm good to go on running servers, etc.

Anyway, any advice appreciated!!

Cayenne