Help me decide on my next camera purchase - full frame high end

[RChauhan]

I would appreciate any advice as I am deciding on my first full frame camera but there is no urgency in the purchase. I can wait for the release of the newer models but would like to plan the purchase and save up for the body and a big white to go with it.

I like to shoot wildlife and landscapes but will also shoot anything that interests me. Photography is a hobby for me.

Here is what I am thinking so far:

• The super resolution of the 5Ds & 5Dsr is nice but not essential
• The metal bodies of the high end cameras is a big plus so I can travel without worrying
• I have crop-sensor cameras so I want a full frame camera
• Very good AF performance
• weather sealing is VERY important to me as I work on a ship
• High ISO performance so I can leave the flash off as much as possible

Here are the cameras I am thinking about:
-5D3
-5D4
-6D2 - depends if it has a good AF system because I tried the 6D and there aren't enough points
-1DX - after the 1DX2 comes out
-1DX2 ;D just because - any guesstimate for the release/price?

Here are my full frame lenses, just to give you an idea of what I have so far:
-24-105L, 100-400L V1, 50/1.8 & I will have the 24-70/2.8 by th end of the year.

 

[gary samples]

I would appreciate any advice as I am deciding on my first full frame camera but there is no urgency in the purchase. I can wait for the release of the newer models but would like to plan the purchase and save up for the body and a big white to go with it.

I like to shoot wildlife and landscapes but will also shoot anything that interests me. Photography is a hobby for me.

Here is what I am thinking so far:

• The super resolution of the 5Ds & 5Dsr is nice but not essential
• The metal bodies of the high end cameras is a big plus so I can travel without worrying
• I have crop-sensor cameras so I want a full frame camera
• Very good AF performance
• weather sealing is VERY important to me as I work on a ship
• High ISO performance so I can leave the flash off as much as possible

Here are the cameras I am thinking about:
-5D3
-5D4
-6D2 - depends if it has a good AF system because I tried the 6D and there aren't enough points
-1DX - after the 1DX2 comes out
-1DX2 ;D just because - any guesstimate for the release/price?

Here are my full frame lenses, just to give you an idea of what I have so far:
-24-105L, 100-400L V1, 50/1.8 & I will have the 24-70/2.8 by th end of the year.

which camera has your skills surpassed and choose the next one up
few people do this !!

 

[RChauhan]

My skills need a lot of work. My main concern is damaging my 70D while travelling so I was going for a metal body camera like the 5D3. But I figured some advice couldn't hurt.

I carry a 70D right now and my old T2i as a second body if luggage weight isn't an issue. Hence the full frame.

 

[ajfotofilmagem]

In a guessing exercise, I suppose:

6D Mark ii is great for landscape, but will continue to slow AF and low FPS. ???

5D Mark IV will be a slight improvement for photography, and price should be above US$3300. :-\

1DX Mark II will be the best for fast action, and price should be above US$ 6,500.

Why not take the price of 5D Mark iii even now around $ 2000?

Another great camera is 7D Mark II, which will well withstand extreme weather.

 

[danski0224]

weather sealing is VERY important to me as I work on a ship

The only camera that meets that one item in your list is the 1Dx or the 1DxII whenever it is released.

My guess for the 1DxII, if it is closer to a "1DsIV" would be near $8,000.00 USD. I would not expect it to be introduced for less than the 1Dx when it was brand new... and we could all be pleasantly surprised with one for $4,500.00 No one but a very small handful of people at Canon know.

 

[privatebydesign]

Steer clear of the 1 series bodies at this point, if you have the time and inclination and the day in day out hands on experience to set them up exactly how you want them for each shooting situation then they are unmatched, but most of us don't have that time and what time we do have we'd rather spend taking actual photos than setting up gear.

Metal over plastic for 'durability' is a state of mind, modern engineering plastic is a far better material to make cameras and lenses out of for most parts, including the exteriors. Take a look at some of the destruction testing DigitalRev has done on their YouTube channel for proof. Besides, I have never had a metal body that hasn't suffered some kind of corrosion (especially 1 series bodies with salt water spray), ask regular here Macguyver who got a wetting down from a wave with his 1DX and a $350 bill for repairing it.

The best thing for you to do is buy a 5D MkIII now, they can be had for $1,999 new. That is a crazy good deal for the best 'all rounder' camera on the planet. A MkIV will be along who knows when when you have missed untold picture opportunities and will cost nearly twice as much and be in short supply.

For wildlife the 5D MkIII is a great camera, sure it doesn't have quite the AF of the 1DX, but Canon were testing the 200-400 f4 L in Africa with the 5D MkIII's; as for landscapes, I can see no reason at all why anybody would shoot landscapes with a 1DX over a 5D MkIII, there isn't one, indeed there are 4 million reasons the 5D MkIII is more appropriate! Besides that the 5D MkIII can be small and light compared to the 1DX, it has a very nice 'silent shutter' mode, which the 1DX has too but is much louder, it takes much less setting up to use effectively but has the options to play with as you get used to each other.

Don't wait, get a 5D MkIII asap and start shooting.

 

[YellowJersey]

Ultimately, it comes down to you and what you value most out of a camera. If I were in your position, I'd do the following (but ultimately, this suits me and my style of shooting, and you're not necessarily going to value what I value)

If you had to buy right now, I'd say the 5DmkIII is the way to go. Good price, decent resolution, good autofocus, good weather sealing, good fps, good iso. All around a good camera. I'd stay away from the 6D since you wanted good autofocus and I'd stay away from the 1Dx due to its cost and not being much, if any, better for what you're shooting.

But, since you said that time is not of the essence, I'd say wait until the 5DmkIV, 6DmkII, and 1DxmkII are released. If they're a lot better and/or have a feature that you really really want that current offerings don't have, then you get those benefits and will spare yourself the buyer's remorse if you buy now. If they're not a lot better, then you can pick up a 5dmkIII a year from now on the cheap and invest in some nice glass. You said you work on a cruise ship and in low light, so the money saved could go towards a nice 24-70 2.8 or a 70-200 2.8. to make the most of your camera.

Personally, unless you really need need the best fps and weather sealing money can buy, I'd hesitate on the 1D series. Working on a cruise ship, I don't think the fps are going be worth it, nor do I think that the 1D weather sealing is so much better that it will make a noticeable difference nor justify the cost. I use my 5DmkIII in some pretty crazy weather situations for landscape shooting and the weather sealing holds up beautifully. I've been behind waterfalls being blasted with spray the point where my rain coat and rain pants were letting water through and I was soaked to the bone, yet my camera (with no rain cover at all) was perfectly fine. Unless you're shooting the Olympics in a hurricane, a 1Dx is overkill.

 

[RChauhan]

Thanks a lot for all the advice. All your thinking is confirming what I feel:

-As my reason/limitation is not technical, I can wait.

-The 5D3 still looks like the best option and may look even better (value for money) when the 5D4 comes out.

-I'm using my 70D so no missed pictures as I am not in a place where the differences of a crop to full frame will affect me in any real way.

-The 1D series is overkill, its main features are not essential for me and the savings can go towards good lenses (11-24 or a big white is the next plan).

-privatebydesign, Good point by about rust, really never thought of that. I honestly will have to rethink my reasoning.

 

[FEBS]

I do follow the advice of another CR member. Do it step by step. If your skills really still need to move up, then buying a 1Dx might be nightmare as there are a lot of setup features in the menu.

After my 7D, I bought a 5D3. When I was used to the AF, as this was the biggest change outside the crop to FF, I really enjoyed that camera and still do today. It's my most frequent used camera. When I went on safari last year, I wanted 2 FF. So I did buy the 1Dx. Logical step. I was quickly used to that camera as all the setup of the 1Dx is basically the one of the 5D3 + some additions.

So my advice, go for 5D3. Price is good now, and it's a nice camera to learn. Afterwards if you even want to trade-in your 70D then look for a 5D4, 1DxII or ...

 

[jhpeterson]

weather sealing is VERY important to me as I work on a ship

The only camera that meets that one item in your list is the 1Dx or the 1DxII whenever it is released.

danski has it right.

I, too, am on ships and boats (at least 100 days a year) and find that nothing less than the 1D series is reliable enough for me. The robust construction is one factor, but even more important is the amount of weather sealing, noticeably above and beyond even the 5D3 and 7D2.

 

[privatebydesign]

weather sealing is VERY important to me as I work on a ship

The only camera that meets that one item in your list is the 1Dx or the 1DxII whenever it is released.

danski has it right.

I, too, am on ships and boats (at least 100 days a year) and find that nothing less than the 1D series is reliable enough for me. The robust construction is one factor, but even more important is the amount of weather sealing, noticeably above and beyond even the 5D3 and 7D2.

What a load of rubbish. How much spray do you get on a typical ship? Next to zero, and certainly none in your cabin. We don't know what the OP is actually doing but many ships are completely air conditioned! How much corrosion do you get on the average polycarbonate body? Zero, yet very single 1 series body that I have worked with at sea (not ships but 100' sail boats) has shown signs of corrosion after six months, as have my metal bodied lenses like the 300 f2.8 IS and 70-200 f2.8 IS.

 

[Northstar]

I'd say to go with the 5d3 mainly because it's a great all around camera at a great current price. Which will leave extra money for lenses.

1dx is about shooting fast action, that's it's main advantage. If you find yourself shooting alot of sports/fast action, then you should consider the 1d at some point.

Good luck,
North

 

[jhpeterson]

weather sealing is VERY important to me as I work on a ship

The only camera that meets that one item in your list is the 1Dx or the 1DxII whenever it is released.

danski has it right.

I, too, am on ships and boats (at least 100 days a year) and find that nothing less than the 1D series is reliable enough for me. The robust construction is one factor, but even more important is the amount of weather sealing, noticeably above and beyond even the 5D3 and 7D2.

What a load of rubbish. How much spray do you get on a typical ship? Next to zero, and certainly none in your cabin. We don't know what the OP is actually doing but many ships are completely air conditioned! How much corrosion do you get on the average polycarbonate body? Zero, yet very single 1 series body that I have worked with at sea (not ships but 100' sail boats) has shown signs of corrosion after six months, as have my metal bodied lenses like the 300 f2.8 IS and 70-200 f2.8 IS.

It isn't just the spray that's the problem. In fact, condensation is almost certainly a bigger one. Sure, it might not be a factor if you ALWAYS kept your equipment in air-conditioned spaces. But, if you took it outside just once, you're likely to come back with problems. The temperature differences will bring on condensation and, with that, corrosion.
Many years ago, I, too, thought non-metal bodies (i.e., polycarbonate, probably it was just plastic then) might be a solution. I suppose they could be, but what's much more important is how well the cameras (and lenses) are weather-sealed. Even fifty feet off the water you'd be amazed how much salt content is in the air.
I'm very familiar with 100' sailboats, and even more so with 20' ones. There's not a dry spot anywhere. Unless you keep it in a container at ALL times, a camera that isn't well-sealed is likely to show serious corrosion in a few weeks, never mind six months.

 

[RChauhan]

Spray would not normally be an issue as I work on large (250+ metre) container ships. The only time I foresee spray is if I see something interesting and take the camera out.

The actual problem is humidity and condensation which causes havoc even on our normal electronics. So I will eventually pair my camera with a weather sealed lens selection while I am onboard. Lens changes will only be done back indoors where at least blown salt will not be an issue.

I never change lenses in the open, even on a calm day as I have seen suspended salt deposit on the ship without any wind.

In fact, the weather sealing is a major factor for me on the Tamron 24-70/2.8 vs the Canon ver II as Canon never seems to quantify it.

I eventually see my travel kit as Body + general zoom (24-70) + 24/1.4 and accessories (tripod, clamp, filters etc).

 

[NancyP]

I would be very interested in the existing Pentax APS-C camera or the anticipated Pentax full frame camera, and associated weatherproof/ waterproof lenses, if I were on that 20' sailboat.

Invest in a lot of "dry-rite" or other drying agent in oven-bakable form (oven is how you regenerate it once it has absorbed the moisture).

 

[RChauhan]

I would be very interested in the existing Pentax APS-C camera or the anticipated Pentax full frame camera, and associated weatherproof/ waterproof lenses, if I were on that 20' sailboat.

Invest in a lot of "dry-rite" or other drying agent in oven-bakable form (oven is how you regenerate it once it has absorbed the moisture).

Interesting but that would take a change to the whole system. I haven't read much about the Pentax full frame so I will look into that. However, Canons lens lineup along with their AF system is a big deal and any new system will be limited on glass at the beginning. Plus I can borrow Canon stuff from my family for short trips so there are a lot of disadvantages to changing the system.

I was actually planning to seal the seams with silicon paste before a trip. I figured it would be a little extra protection. I am planning to find a gasket or O-ring I can use on all lenses to waterproof the mounts as extra protection.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

I was actually planning to seal the seams with silicon paste before a trip. I figured it would be a little extra protection. I am planning to find a gasket or O-ring I can use on all lenses to waterproof the mounts as extra protection.

I am not sure I understand you here. Are you intending on squirting silicone paste on the junction between the lens and the camera body? You sure that would be a good idea? Especially since you mentioned borrowing lenses from family/friends

I also don't know how you can retrofit a gasket on lenses without affecting the mounting.

 

[RChauhan]

I was actually planning to seal the seams with silicon paste before a trip. I figured it would be a little extra protection. I am planning to find a gasket or O-ring I can use on all lenses to waterproof the mounts as extra protection.

I am not sure I understand you here. Are you intending on squirting silicone paste on the junction between the lens and the camera body? You sure that would be a good idea? Especially since you mentioned borrowing lenses from family/friends

I also don't know how you can retrofit a gasket on lenses without affecting the mounting.

;D no, not exactly. Silicon paste carefully rubbed over the seams on the body of the camera. Tape for lens seams that don't move. My lenses obviously. Planning to find/buy a junk lens to try this first.

As for the gasket - thin, compressible rubber ring that I can use around the rim of the mount. There was a kickstarter for something like that but I dont know what happened to it.

Actually, if you were sure you could go without changing a lens for a wet shoot, I would put a thin line of silicone around the mount after I have put the lens on. I don't see how it can hurt.

 

[danski0224]

Actually, if you were sure you could go without changing a lens for a wet shoot, I would put a thin line of silicone around the mount after I have put the lens on. I don't see how it can hurt.

Hopefully the material doesn't out-gas anything to interfere with optics or sensor coatings.

Not to mention getting all over your hands... and then dropping the camera.

In the end, you still have a camera body and lens that is marketed as "water resistant" with no official IP rating on either component.

A 1D series body would be the best choice, but given the environment that you are describing, I wonder if even that would be good enough for long term use. A teeny tiny saltwater intrusion would render the camera or lens junk.

Whatever you eventually decide to buy, I would view off the shelf and non-IP rated consumer goods as disposable unless you bought something actually rated to be used within the environment.

 

[FTb-n]

Ok, the spray/condensation concern may throw a monkey wrench into my response. I don't shoot in the same environment and can't say which body would be best for the environment. Are you seeing condensation in the 70D?

The weather sealing weak spot on the 5D3 is the mode dial. If you are seeing condensation inside the 70D, it may still happen with the 5D3 -- which would imply that only the 1Dx has the sealing that you need. Sealing issues aside, I do think the plastic bodies are tougher than may think. There's no doubt that the "pro-grade" bodies are better suited for combat use by professional media and sports shooters -- especially when used and abused by shooters encouraged to "do what it takes" to get the shot with company gear. But, for most of us, the plastic bodies hold up well.

Generally speaking, I don't recommend a body upgrade without citing a specific shortcoming of your current body. Finances aside, the best time to upgrade bodies is when your current body is holding you back. If the focus locking or focus tracking sometimes disappointing with the 70D, then it's time to consider moving up. If high ISO performance of the 70D isn't what you want, here's another reason to consider a change.

If the 70D is satisfying your needs but there's still a desire to shoot with a higher-end body, be sure that your expectations are properly managed. I will echo others in suggesting the 5D3. As a full frame body, it has lot to offer with better AF, better DOF control for more pop, better high ISO performance, and greater color depth.

However, high end cameras won't take better pictures for you, but they will give you more tools to help you capture better images. If you are comfortable with the manual "creative" modes and willing to explore the menus of the 5D3, then you'll get a lot out of it. If you prefer the auto modes of the 70D -- such as sports and portrait -- then you'll be disappointed. You won't find these on the 5D3. (I suspect this isn't an issue for you, but for others, it might be.)