How does Canon respond to the D800?

[awinphoto]

The more MP, the higher the pixel density of the sensor and you are going to get increased noise throughout the ISO range... you are going to get more detail as well, but see the 7D if you have any doubts about my statements... People have on this very forum griped about ISO noise on a 18MP crop sensor at ISO 100?!? You can combat this slightly with new processors, Digic for canon, expeed for nikon and the conversion software, but it is what it is.

A higher MP sensor will not give more image noise than a lower MP sensor at high ISO. The image quality will be better for the higher MP at final image.
About the 7D it outperforms 5Dmk2 per area unit at high ISO.

That's why the 5d2 has about a 1.3 stop advantage in high ISO?

 

[pedro]

Canon Rumors guy was spot on with the 1Dx. I have no reason to think he's wrong about the 5DIII: 22 mp, Significantly improved autofocus, new battery grip with joystick.

Hopefully he's again. I am all for a mini 1Dx. Time will tell 8)

 

[Picsfor]

If Canon want my money to upgrade my 5D2's, they either have to bring the 1Dx to street at about £4k or just over - or release a successor to the 5D2 that has improved AF, Dual Memory Card Slot and improved ISO. Oh, and the sweetener would be that BG with the duplicated joystick!

I don't need more MP, i don't need a higher frame rate, i don't need a pro body or the extra weather sealing that comes with a pro body. All that the 5D2 offer suits me a treat except for the AF. But that's why i said it would need the other improvements, because i wouldn't trade up just for improved AF that comes with, say, 9 full cross AF points.

My original thoughts about MP were founded when i took my first portrait shot with the 5D2 - 21mp is plenty enough, if not a little too much. For all other areas it's acceptable - but i wouldn't want to go any higher, not until i've upped my iMac with the latest all singing all dancing model and Adobe LR 4, 5 or 6!

 

[DBCdp]

A higher MP sensor will not give more image noise than a lower MP sensor at high ISO. The image quality will be better for the higher MP at final image.
About the 7D it outperforms 5Dmk2 per area unit at high ISO.
[/quote]

I have shot weddings recently with the 5D, 7D and 5D MkII, the 7D images in the various wedding settings failed to match even the 5D Classic in image quality. Argue what you will, I have thousands of pictures that tell the real story.

 

[wickidwombat]

The more MP, the higher the pixel density of the sensor and you are going to get increased noise throughout the ISO range... you are going to get more detail as well, but see the 7D if you have any doubts about my statements... People have on this very forum griped about ISO noise on a 18MP crop sensor at ISO 100?!? You can combat this slightly with new processors, Digic for canon, expeed for nikon and the conversion software, but it is what it is.

A higher MP sensor will not give more image noise than a lower MP sensor at high ISO. The image quality will be better for the higher MP at final image.
About the 7D it outperforms 5Dmk2 per area unit at high ISO.

I dont think so, I REALLY wanted the 7D IQ to be better than my 1D mk3 so i could put the beast out as a backup and have a smaller camera with the 17-55 f2.8 for weddings but when I compared the IQ of final images i just wasn't satisfied with the 7D I am eagerly looking to see what the 7D2 does though. So for me the best upgrade path for that body right now is a 1Dmk4

 

[CrimsonBlue]

Canon doesn't respond -- it releases what has been in the pipeline for 2+ years. You can't retool a whole set of features a la carte.

With the unnamed super high-end video and unannounced still backs, it wouldn't make sense for the 5D to go much past 25MP -- especially if that draws attention to the MP difference with the 1DX. They are both full-frame, so Canon can't be two-faced in the approach to MP.

Methinks an 18-24MP body with slightly improved AF, but nothing like the D800.

 

[te4o]

I don't know how Canon can respond to this camera without making a huge leap in in-camera IQ improvement.
Read and see here http://cliffmautner.typepad.com/ - the guy states NO Flash, no exposure compensation... Well, if the next gen DSLR are like this then ... my goodness ! Seems that there is a lot of automatic adjustments the D800 does to improve/compensate for any high ISO noise. Yes, there will be noise but heck, the 5D2 crowd has been putting up with it quite well up till now.
Let's just hope Canon as a big camera manufacturer does not disappoint with the bells and whistles - there appears to be a lot more to digital imaging nowadays than just MP, AF points and noise management. I hope there are DIGIC5 applications in camera that will at least match the D800's.

 

[te4o]

Or Canon should simply respond by engineering an EF-to-Nikon lens adapter... 8) ??? :

 

[Stu_bert]

Just like Nikon is pursuing multiple offerings, so is Canon. These have been in development for the past 3 years, and the tech is being released for the current generation of bodies just as the new projects kick off for the next gen in 2014/2015.

Canon perhaps has it more difficult as it is producing both the sensor & supporting processors, whereas for at least a significant amount, Nikon uses Sony sensors. Nikon only has the imaging business, and their focus not unreasonably results in aggressive products - which is good for everyone. And Sony still want to play heavily in the digital camera market for all sorts of reasons which is also good for competition.

My guess is there will be 2 further Canon dSLRs this year. One as CR guy states in March and a "larger MP" one in the Autumn if the D800 goes well.

I think the March release will aim squarely at a 24MP camera from Nikon / Sony. Just not sure about the FF/APS-C piece. I think this will be a different camera to try and disrupt Nikon.

How large a MP the autumn release will be does depend on the success of Nikon, but clearly a newer version of the 7D sensor upsized to FF with better processing by a Digic 5+ will probably stand them well.

I don't think Canon is panicking in any way, they're just playing cat n mouse with Nikon & Sony. Some of the participants in this forum, clearly are more worried than Canon

 

[sjprg]

Regardless of all the blah, blah, go look at the published 30 MB jpegs from the D800E. The proof is in the pudding. If Canon doesn't respond by April they have just lost another customer. My 1DSIII can't hold a candle to even the jpegs out of the D800E. I've shot Canons 35s all my adult life, but I will soon be gone to Nikon. Mamiya MF you better look out. DSLRs are closeing fast. AND there are a lot more landscape photographers than the head in the sand mainstream posters realize.

 

[V8Beast]

This is probably why the D800 is no better ISO capabilities as the 5d2 albeit it's 15 MP more.

I'm probably the only person on here that's actually impressed by this. The 5DII is a stunning performer in the ISO department. The fact that the D800 can offer similar ISO performance despite having 15 extra megapixels is no small feat. The D700 and 5DII were similar ISO wise, so I tip my hat to Nikon for tripling the resolution from 12 to 36 megapixels without increasing noise.

Honestly, I'd be happy with a mere 1 stop ISO improvement in the 5DIII compared to the 5DII, and this is coming from someone who shoots in low light all the time That's just a testament to how good the 5DII already is in low light.

 

[aaronh]

All I can say is it's going to be a long three weeks...

 

[cliffwang]

I will just wait for 5D3 announcement and then decide to go with 5D3 or D800.

 

[V8Beast]

I don't know how Canon can respond to this camera without making a huge leap in in-camera IQ improvement.
Read and see here http://cliffmautner.typepad.com/ - the guy states NO Flash, no exposure compensation... Well, if the next gen DSLR are like this then ... my goodness ! Seems that there is a lot of automatic adjustments the D800 does to improve/compensate for any high ISO noise. Yes, there will be noise but heck, the 5D2 crowd has been putting up with it quite well up till now.
Let's just hope Canon as a big camera manufacturer does not disappoint with the bells and whistles - there appears to be a lot more to digital imaging nowadays than just MP, AF points and noise management. I hope there are DIGIC5 applications in camera that will at least match the D800's.

Wow. Those D800 samples have a very 5D-like look to them. I wonder how much post processing was done, but the color, contrast, and DR is stunning!

 

[RedEye]

This is probably why the D800 is no better ISO capabilities as the 5d2 albeit it's 15 MP more.

I'm probably the only person on here that's actually impressed by this. The 5DII is a stunning performer in the ISO department. The fact that the D800 can offer similar ISO performance despite having 15 extra megapixels is no small feat. The D700 and 5DII were similar ISO wise, so I tip my hat to Nikon for tripling the resolution from 12 to 36 megapixels without increasing noise.

Honestly, I'd be happy with a mere 1 stop ISO improvement in the 5DIII compared to the 5DII, and this is coming from someone who shoots in low light all the time That's just a testament to how good the 5DII already is in low light.

I'm impressed too, and I can tell by some of the video that the entire user interface is improved, and I that's a big step in the whole user experience. With medium format the outcome is fantastic, and the user experince is lousy - I mean really, try explaining that stuff in your carryon luggage in cuba...

 

[V8Beast]

Regardless of all the blah, blah, go look at the published 30 MB jpegs from the D800E. The proof is in the pudding. If Canon doesn't respond by April they have just lost another customer. My 1DSIII can't hold a candle to even the jpegs out of the D800E. I've shot Canons 35s all my adult life, but I will soon be gone to Nikon.

I'm in the same boat. I've been looking to upgrade my 1DsIII, and the 1Dx doesn't suite my needs. During the "rumor" stage, the D800 seemed like a nice upgrade to my current body, and real world specs and sample images are living up to the hype. I'll wait to see how Canon specs out the 5DIII before making a final decision. I've researched how much I can sell my Canon gear for on ebay, and the money I'll have to spend to replicate my setup with equivalent Nikon glass and the D800 is very palatable.

 

[Bob_McBob]

Where's the "slightly higher resolution 5D2 with some upgraded features and 9 point AF" option?

At this point I am prepared to be horribly let down by Canon. Perhaps I will get a pleasant surprise. Perhaps not, considering the number of vocal 5D2 users who would seemingly be happy with 1 point AF.

 

[RedEye]

Where's the "slightly higher resolution 5D2 with some upgraded features and 9 point AF" option?

At this point I am prepared to be horribly let down by Canon. Perhaps I will get a pleasant surprise.

I think we're at that point in the movie where the good guy gets cornered, the clown is blowing things up, and beleif is in question.

Good thing this movie is about 4 hours long

 

[BDD]

Canon, should respond by doing their own thing. Being original in their approach. Not getting caught up in a MP war.

Just stick to the most recently mentioned rumoured specs here on CR but add more stops of high ISO. At least to 12,800. Or better yet borrow from the 1D-X and give us 100-51,200 native ISO in the 5D3. All for an introductory asking price of $2700 USD.

This is going to be a long month. Waiting for Canon to make the announcement. Make people like me happy Canon!!

 

[moreorless]

Obviously, the higher the MP, the more noise you are going to get at high ISO, or at least the more the noise will be magnified.

Your statement make no sense!
The number of MP itself will not affect the amout of noise but the higher MP sensor will give a higher image quality (less noise vs resolution) than a lower MP sensor at high ISO because of the efficiency of nose reduction algorithms.

This is often repeated but to me the comparisons between the new Sony 24 MP crop sensor and the old 16 MP one seems to show that it wasnt the case. When the former was down rezed to the latters size it was clearly still the noiser of the two.

Personally I'd be looking to buy a high MP body if I did upgrade to FF but I do question how much of a market there is for that. The really high end studio/landscape users will go MF, the wedding photographers will I'd guess want more ISO first and will the typical amature user print 30X20 to make use of such resolution? will he be willing to deal with diffraction becoming a big issue?

To me if the the 5D mk3 stats we've seen are correct then it does seem to hint that the D800 has caught Canon a bit on the hop(not now but whenever they discovered its stats) and has convinced them to shift across more of the 1DX features than they were planning to. Ultimately I'd guess losing a few 1DX sales is less important to them than potentially having users switch brands or indeed tempt Nikon users who arent satisifed with a high MP body to do so.