How many people think that their 5D Mark IV images are soft?

[atlcroc]

I currently shoot with the 5 D Mark III and am thinking of getting the 5 D Mark IV. I took some sample photos inside a camera store with the 5 DSR and found them lacking in sharpness because I was not able to shoot with a very high shutter speed. From reading this forum and others my conclusion was to get the most benefit of the extra pixels I should be using a tripod in the lower light. My assumption that with the number of pixels in the 5 D Mark IV this should not be as big of an issue. So those with the 5 D Mark IV, any issues of softness or blur from indoor shooting hand held?

 

[Maiaibing]

I took some sample photos inside a camera store with the 5 DSR and found them lacking in sharpness because I was not able to shoot with a very high shutter speed. From reading this forum and others my conclusion was to get the most benefit of the extra pixels I should be using a tripod in the lower light.

Well, you were wrong. Your 5DS/R pictures will be at least as sharp in spite of possible motion blur as anything you will ever shoot with the 5DIII.

If you are lucky, shoot high(er) shutter speeds or use a tripod etc. your pictures will be much sharper than anything your 5DIII can achieve. 5DS/R pictures will never be softer (all things being equal) than 5DIII pictures.

Due to the improved shutter its may even be safe to claim that 5DS/R pictures will always have less motion blur than a 5DIII picture but I'd have to test that to be sure.

 

[Jack Douglas]

I took some sample photos inside a camera store with the 5 DSR and found them lacking in sharpness because I was not able to shoot with a very high shutter speed. From reading this forum and others my conclusion was to get the most benefit of the extra pixels I should be using a tripod in the lower light.

Well, you were wrong. Your 5DS/R pictures will be at least as sharp in spite of possible motion blur as anything you will ever shoot with the 5DIII.

If you are lucky, shoot high(er) shutter speeds or use a tripod etc. your pictures will be much sharper than anything your 5DIII can achieve. 5DS/R pictures will never be softer (all things being equal) than 5DIII pictures.

Due to the improved shutter its may even be safe to claim that 5DS/R pictures will always have less motion blur than a 5DIII picture but I'd have to test that to be sure.

While this is true it wouldn't make sense to be dealing with double size files to just get equal quality so maybe there is a slight negative in this debate depending on how a person perceives they will be using the camera.

Jack

 

[tcmatthews]

My 5DIV is quite soft at ISO 6400+ especially around the red zipper (see photos). And when compare with my 6D, I can't say high ISO is better in the shadows. Anyone why?

- mirror lockup
- 1/125
- 50mm

- ISO 6400
- RAW
- tripod
- 10 second timer

First if you wish to truly minimize camera shake then you do not use mirror lockup. To truly minimize it use live view with silent shutter mode 2. This uses first curtain electronic shutter and completely removed any chance of shutterstock. Do this with the 10 second timer. Second confirm you are actually focused on what you think you are focused on by zooming in in live view. Last you want to have enough light to shoot at base ISO. You are at 1/125 so shutter shock should not be an issue.

Unfortunately Silent shutter mode 2 really limits your flash modes so bright external lights or daylight should be used. You could of course to the above then switch to mirror lockup defocus your lens and repeat the test with the autofocus system. This could tell you if you need to AFMA.

Last thing ISO 6400 you will be getting quantization noise. Regardless of what sensor you are using. Your perceived softness is likely just noise. On older Canon cameras there would be a lot of red or green pixel noise that would need removal. This is not the case with the newer Canon Cameras or Sony. Instead noise just seems to reduce detail and micro contrast. That is just the nature of light.

 

[Loswr]

While this is true it wouldn't make sense to be dealing with double size files to just get equal quality so maybe there is a slight negative in this debate depending on how a person perceives they will be using the camera.

Similarly, dealing with triple the cost of a camera (more if you consider lenses) for a full frame camera if you generally shoot in good light and don't want ultra-shallow DoF could be a negative, for some.

 

[Jack Douglas]

While this is true it wouldn't make sense to be dealing with double size files to just get equal quality so maybe there is a slight negative in this debate depending on how a person perceives they will be using the camera.

Similarly, dealing with triple the cost of a camera (more if you consider lenses) for a full frame camera if you generally shoot in good light and don't want ultra-shallow DoF could be a negative, for some.

That's why "best" is always very subjective. Often it's just bragging rights that some are after. Even "best for me" is still subjective because I may be too ignorant to even judge whether I'm in an optimal situation. Often it's, "this is how I've always done it and it's the best way so don't bother me with your newfangled ideas".

This disinterest in change is evident in the persistence of certain features of body layout that clearly are not optimal - the 5D4 feels just like the 5D3, so it's instant love. It's just human nature, some love change while others don't and Canon can't please everyone but they do well pleasing many.

Jack

 

[atlcroc]

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=26773.msg528620#msg528620

Seems we have conflicting reports. I was referring to the link above where someone indicated motion blur was a bigger issue with the 5 D SR than another model. Looks like there are varying opinions and I was going with the one in this link. I did not directly compare the two models, just did some test shots with the 5 D SR and maybe my technique was the issue. Did not do a one to one comparison of the 2 bodies and maybe would have seen in that lighting the 5 D SR was better. Just know that I did not like what I saw. So I'm no expert, just asking if motion blur is more of an issue with higher pixel cameras or not? No need to get testy.

 

[chauncey]

Seems we have conflicting reports

Ya think...the opinions offered herein are just that...opinions.
If ya give a superlative camera to a mediocre photographer you're gonna get mediocre pictures...period.
All cameras have a learning curve associated with them.

 

[atlcroc]

Talk about mediocre. That would be your response. I asked a simple question. Do higher pixel cameras increase the chance of motion blur? If you are too ignorant to know the answer, just keep your rude opinions to yourself.

 

[Mikehit]

Talk about mediocre. That would be your response. I asked a simple question. Do higher pixel cameras increase the chance of motion blur? If you are too ignorant to know the answer, just keep your rude opinions to yourself.

My own view is that if you are using the same lens from the same position the movement of the subject will result in the same linear measurement of movement across the sensor. The number of pixels does not change that.

The confusion comes when people are often not specific about the conditions of taking the photo nor viewing. For example if the person uses 7D2 and 5DSR and 5D3 the 5DSR and 5D3 will look very similar when printed to the same size (the 7D2 is being magnified more), the 5DSR and the 7D2 will look very similar when looking at 100% on a computer screen (they have the same pixel density).

I have not seen any demonstration that that is not the case.

 

[atlcroc]

Thank your very much for your answer. That helps. I took exception to the implication of my being a mediocre photographer from someone who has no idea of my skills. I'm on my 10th canon camera and have been shooting as a serious hobbyist since 1975 from my FTB days. Lots of practice, reading, courses and not a pro, but pretty good. Trying to decide on whether to upgrade to the IV. I'm sure the 5 D SR is the best for sharpness but I do not need the extra resolution for what I shoot. While it would be great for landscapes, I do a lot of inside shooting. For me it's really simple, you have good light, you get a good photo. In challenging light is where I do my testing to see what I need to do. When I get a new camera I will typically do more controlled shots and vary settings one at a time and take notes to see how I want to shoot. Since I was just borrowing a store camera inside, could not be that detailed. So it was a quick grab and shoot several angles and at a few different ISO settings. So I really did not keep any specifics. Again, I appreciate your response a lot.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Seems we have conflicting reports

Ya think...the opinions offered herein are just that...opinions.
If ya give a superlative camera to a mediocre photographer you're gonna get mediocre pictures...period.
All cameras have a learning curve associated with them.

Hey chauncey, that'll be me on Wednesday, but I'll sure be having fun! And I won't be able to blame the camera for my results.

I think the testy often complain about the testy and perhaps should just relax and not take things too personally. CR threads often generate snarky remarks and those that can't handle that should probably find a safer place to frequent. This is not directed at anyone in particular just a general comment representing my opinion.

Jack

 

[AlanF]

I use both the 5DS R and 5D IV for bird photography, and today did a lot of comparisons with the 400mm DO II +1.4x and 2xTCs to make up my mind what combinations of lens, TCs and bodies to use under different conditions. The results are as you would expect: the 5DS R is the king of resolution whereas the 5D IV has better acutance with the same lens and TC. I am continuing to use the 5DS R for optimal resolution and sharpness and the 5D IV for its superb AF for birds in flight.

 

[Jack Douglas]

So Alan, where does the 7D II now fit in all this for you?

Jack

 

[chauncey]

the 5DS R is the king of resolution whereas the 5D IV has better acutance

I am truly puzzled when acutance is defined as "the sharpness of a photographic or printed image."
Is that not basically the same as king of resolution?

 

[atlcroc]

First, I must agree with Jack that this is probably not a good idea to be posting here. I've followed this site for several years because there are a lot of smart people here and I've learned a lot. I've also seen the snarky, sophomoric exchanges that are infantile at best and look here, I'm now involved in one. So let me apologize for my knee jerk testy response because usually I am not a testy person despite the assumption that one comment makes you one. I tried to initiate a new thread days ago but there is a silly rule that you have to have some unknown number of posts to be able to ask a new question. So I slipped one in here. I sincerely appreciate the one answer to my question that was able to actually answer a question without insulting the person asking it. It's great that you long time posters stick together, but maybe you could actually try being polite to someone trying to learn from you instead of suggesting: they are mediocre, they are testy, they blame their equipment, they are overly sensitive, etc. Being old school where it's better to try to help out others and not be demeaning or insulting is the better way. So again, my apology to my insult earlier. So instead of trying to get enough posts to be able to ask a new question, I'll go back to researching my questions in other forums. Peace.

 

[Jack Douglas]

atlcroc, there is nothing wrong with your reasoning and of course decent polite behaviour is what we should all strive for. Unfortunately, like it or not we are stuck with the vulgarity, insults and whatever else in this modern "I come first, I have a right ...." society we live in. Sadly, that is not going to change.

So, yes, the decision is to determine to not be phased by the low life comments and benefit from the generally great CR contributors, or bow out.

Many threads are exemplary, generally where photos are posted and the odd comment is involved. Gear threads tend to attract more of the trolls etc. I love CR in spite of the negatives.

Jack

 

[takesome1]

First, I must agree with Jack that this is probably not a good idea to be posting here. I've followed this site for several years because there are a lot of smart people here and I've learned a lot. I've also seen the snarky, sophomoric exchanges that are infantile at best and look here, I'm now involved in one. So let me apologize for my knee jerk testy response because usually I am not a testy person despite the assumption that one comment makes you one. I tried to initiate a new thread days ago but there is a silly rule that you have to have some unknown number of posts to be able to ask a new question. So I slipped one in here. I sincerely appreciate the one answer to my question that was able to actually answer a question without insulting the person asking it. It's great that you long time posters stick together, but maybe you could actually try being polite to someone trying to learn from you instead of suggesting: they are mediocre, they are testy, they blame their equipment, they are overly sensitive, etc. Being old school where it's better to try to help out others and not be demeaning or insulting is the better way. So again, my apology to my insult earlier. So instead of trying to get enough posts to be able to ask a new question, I'll go back to researching my questions in other forums. Peace.

Without making judgements on your skill level, Chauncey's comments do hold some merrit. My first passion when I first went digital was macro handheld. Really fast you learn how well your hand holding technique is, camera shake is very easy to see on an insect. The same is true with the 5Ds R, if you have poor technique you will notice it easier than you might with a 5D III and the same lens, this is because of the larger file and image. But to me this has always been a non issue with the 5Ds R. I would say overall my 5Ds R images hand held are sharper and have no more camera shake than any other body.

However, the caveat, I do not like the noise over ISO 1600 from the 5Ds R. The 5D III I would have pushed to ISO 3200. Because of a one stop difference you have to make up somewhere, often it is shutter speed. One stop of shutter speed can definitely show a bit more camera shake.

 

[atlcroc]

My original themes were bugs and sunsets. I used a bellows for macros and would get 3.25 to 1. Always used tripods and crazy eyepiece attachments. There is a chance I was sloppy that day since I was in a hurry not to take up too much time in the store since I had no intention of purchasing right then. The last 2 years was lucky enough to hike parts of the Camino in Spain and besides beautiful scenery outside, tons of inside church photos so for me the Mark III and IV series is probably better than the 5 D SR because there were a lot of high ISO shots. It was the several pages on the other question that I linked that led me to believe that higher pixels created more chances to exaggerate poor technique. So starting off from the conclusion from that thread I was just checking to see if that were also true with 30 megapixels. Apparently if I just tighten up and use good technique, should not be an issue. My hike this year was over 250 miles with an accrued elevation of over 3 and a half miles. Lugging water, the 5 D Mark III, lens, filters, snacks, rain gear, etc. - no way I was going to also bring a tripod and having to cover about 16 miles a day when I did take photos, it was pretty quick. I shared an AVCHD with a local guide who has seen many photos and his comments were those were the sharpest photos he had seen of the walk. They should be since I was the only one lugging heavy equipment and others were using point and shoot. Probably do not need a new camera but when I went from point and shoot to 40D, big improvement. Then from 40 D to 5 D Mark III, enormous improvement. Seems to be enough good things about the Mark IV that I would see some more improvement. Just had that one concern which collectively ya'll have answered. Thanks for your post.

 

[cpsico]

Every new camera has these threads... 5d III
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/40825286
1DS III
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=587848
6d
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1337555
Check your software settings on your raw converter first, technique, are you shooting the DLA..etc
Each and every new camera needs practice to get the best out of it.