I just wanted to clarify things about the EOS R5 and EOS R6 from yesterday’s report

Max C

Canon 60D
Feb 9, 2020
113
130
We get it, you are the authority on what the R5 can do and when exactly it overheats or not, and everyone else is just lying to get clicks. Yeah, not gonna reply to the rest of this as we're going around in circles. :)
LOL I have ignored him since yesterday. Stalkerish and deluded type, guzzling that company kool-aid.

But I feel you Loibisch, to me they need to find a way to extend the overheating time a bit more, and more importantly they need to solve the heat build up that occurs by just having the camera in standby or stills mode.

The inadvertent heat build up in the non-video modes and even standby, effectively means the guidelines for recording times are incorrect, and are best case scenarios and not real world scenarios. This can lead some to say the camera does not function as intended. If they can't understand that, they aren't being objective.

I don't know why people aren't understanding this, especially those that portray themselves as professionals. The platform just seems too unpredictable to use as a professional who shoots stills along with any sort of video.

If your camera overheats on a paid shoot and causes delays, you can kiss a future job goodbye. And for some of us who get jobs through ad agencies, that can mean multiple jobs vanishing. Granted you should have two cameras at all times on any professional level, but still... You know what I mean.

Also most are focusing on the R5, but too me the R6 is in an even tougher position, with thermal limitations in every 4k mode. Compromises made to the overall resolution of the sensor, and compromises on all 4k modes, thats a tough pill to swallow. And it's nestled in an increasingly competitive price range.

One or two think I am bashing, or think these youtubers are bashing, but these things are not made up out of thin air, it's a fact that the issues exist. Its not perceived.

Some of you need to start a site called Canon Lovers where you only speak about good things, rainbows and flowers and stuffs.
 
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BakaBokeh

EOS 90D
CR Pro
May 16, 2020
198
427
Let me start by saying I am not discounting this use case, but I will say how are people solving this issue today? If they are using Cameras without the higher quality modes like the EOS R they are simply recording the event in the mode that works. I would argue the R5 has modes that just work. If Canon unlocks 1080 120 or 240 that is not thermal limited they are giving that same EOS R wedding shooter another tool. I wish 4k 120 was not thermal restricted cause this will be where I make money, but since I have been making money with the R's CRAP 720 this is going to be a joy:)

Agree. This is why I'm not outraged by the camera. If you consider what we now can do with what we previously had, I'm super excited about getting the R5. I am disappointed the these higher end modes won't have typical Canon reliability, but will need to see how I can implement them in my workflow. It may turn out that I don't use them. Much the way I decided not to use 4K in the EOS R since I didn't care for the crop, I may just eliminate the high end modes and stick with 4K24 since it "just works". But that is still an upgrade from the EOS R so why wouldn't I be happy? +1 on a firmware update to add HD120 (240 would be a dream and probably the thing I'm most jealous of on the A7SIII).

Like any gear, we are going to run into limitations. Instead of wasting my time complaining, I'm more concerned in identifying the limitations, seeing if there's any workarounds, and just working within them which was the whole point of my previous post. One thing that always happens with limitation is that it can breed creativity. I will need to make a conscientious choice to use the higher modes, so forethought in what I shoot will be required, so hopefully it will be a better shot because of that preparation. Would it be nice to have unlimited footage? Yes, but then that's a lot more garbage takes I'll have to sift through later.

I also think it reasonable to expect Canon to do something with firmware updates to help address some of these limitations.
 

AlP

EOS R5
CR Pro
Sep 5, 2018
59
98
So many simple reasons.

  1. The R5 body is a LOT smaller than the 1DX3, guessing you have not seen a side by side. It is smaller than a 5D4 and even a 6D
  2. There is no evidence the R5 is not sealed nearly or as well as the 1DX3- it is fully weather sealed. Any differences are going to be completely insignificant thermally.
  3. 1DX3 doesn't do high bit rate video (4K120, 4KHQ and 8K)
  4. 1DX3 has a much smaller sensor resolution which is faster to read out so less heat generated per read cycle.
  5. IBIS requires floating the sensor on a suspension without a large heat sink mass, so cooling is harder.
  6. Electronic viewfinder and screen running all the time on R5, more power.
  7. etc.

It might not be so simple.
Sealing plays no role here, or would only play a role if the gaps would be very large allowing significant airflow through them. That's not the case for both cameras.
With IBIS, the issue is not (only) the mass. The issue is that if you want to transfer heat away from the sensor efficiently, you need something with good thermal conductivity and a large cross-section, coupled to the sensor. That can be done with copper braids for example, but the more copper you add (to increase the cross section) the stiffer the braid gets. And that means that vibrations of the camera body also couple better to the floating part of the IBIS assembly, which is what one wants to avoid. So that's a tradeoff.

What one would try to do to get the heat off the processor (and sensor) would be to couple these thermally as well as possible to the largest thermal mass in the device and to the best heat radiating and heat dissipating (through convection or external airflow, or...) part. That's the camera body.
The 1DXIII seems to have some sort of direct coupling to the body (I read it somewhere but might be wrong). It's also a larger body and therefore has a larger mass and a larger area which can be used to dissipate heat.
But I think coupling is key, and that is probably the only thing that the only test showing the A7SIII overheating before the R5 really shows: That the Sony has a very good thermal coupling between the body and the processor. I am willing to bet that if the test would have been done in the shade at the same air temperature, the outcome would have been different. Overheating was likely caused by the body becoming very warm under the sun and reducing the thermal gradient compared to the still warmer processor.

The R5 seems to have a very weak coupling between the magnesium body and the processor. That would mean that heat from the processor can only be dissipated through the copper traces of the PCB and the air in the body which is a bad thermal conductor and hasn't a lot of space to circulate. That's probably why putting ice on the camera won't help (and in general why the recovery times are so long), as that will cool the camera body, but will not remove heat from the internals. And that's also probably why the R5 takes longer to overheat under the sun, as the body might heat up faster than in the shade, but the processor doesn't directly and immediately feel that.
The S1H doesn't care as there is a fan making sure that there is sufficient airflow across an external heatsink which internally couples to the processor.

Quite possible that this is a deliberate choice by canon to isolate sensor/processor from external temperature changes (but then why state that the magnesium body helps dissipating heat?). Quite possible that this is a cost-cutting measure to simplify assembly of the camera.
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
6,237
3,665
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
There are lots of reasons why nobody has reported issues with the 1DX III, not least of which it doesn't shoot 8k, nor 4k 120, probably because there is no way Canon would push their 1 series that hard with untested (put to market) tech. But the 1 series also does not have IBIS which acts as a sensor isolator complicating heat mitigation and they do have room and experience inside the 1 series bodies to engineer some heat away.

Having been a 1 series user for years I am sometimes disappointed in how conservative Canon are with that model, when things like this happen I am very glad they are.
Thanks.

Not being a video person, I have not paid any attention to the differences in what the two bodies can shoot. I suspected that the R5 might have more heat-generating options but wasn't sure. One of these days I'll get around to trying the video on the 1Dx III, but now that most of my college fall sports are moving to spring, it may be awhile. Side note: I was joking with the cross country and women's golf coaches that they are going to get the best coverage from me this year that they've ever gotten. :)
 
Jul 9, 2020
7
11
I still think half of the issue would have been mitigated if they advertised the camera's video specs based on only the modes that are not heat limited… "Does 4k30 without a crop!". Then they could say "Can also record small clips of 8k, 4k60, and 4kHQ, temperature permitting", in smaller letters.

I am more disappointed that the R6 does not have a 4k30 mode that is not heat limited. I managed to upsell myself on the R5 just because of that — I'm only thinking of the reliable non-heat-limited modes as what the camera can do, so for me the R6 cannot do 4k.
 
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mppix

EOS RP
Feb 13, 2018
209
177
Canon themselves recommended using an external fan to cool it down - why? I ask why because it seems fans and even placing it in a fridge does not help much at all since the thermal insulation that prevents heat from entering the camera body will also prevent this type of cooling to become effective. This I conclude from watching a few videos. But I really hope I am wrong.

I am taking a wild guess here, but I think since Canon has a cooling patent (?) design (CR presented it recently), I think the R5/R6 is "already designed" to easily accept the patent's implementation (hardware side). I think that Canon may have prepared themselves for this perceived overheating issue (made by the public and reviewers) before releasing the cameras. Thinking if it (the outcry) does get out of control, it will be easy to update/recall by a rather simple (relative to a redesign) "plug and play" and that would calm people down. Maybe they didn't do it from the start because it would cost them extra money, or parts were not available (Covid). Maybe they released far fewer units than expected this 1st batch to see what actual buyers had to say about it? Then again, why take a chance with their reputation if they new this could be a PR problem from the start?

I'm just speculating.
You are right - cold (or heat) not entering the body points to a faulty (or severely underdesigned) thermal interface. This is confirmed by testimonies that when the camera overheats, the body stays cold.

However, the "cooling adapter" is certainly ridiculous.
 

Andy Westwood

EOS R6
CR Pro
Dec 10, 2016
168
272
UK
Remember all the fuss when the 5D4 came out re the video codec and the huge files created, but nobody really talks about that now.

I shoot lots of simple video clips and still only shoot in 1080. I bought my M5 mostly as a 1080 video camera, because it had auto focus video and it was light and easy to use. Admittedly I haven’t really used the M5 since my EOS R arrived apart from a holiday camera.

It is the YouTubers creating the biggest fuss re the R5 and R6 re the overhearing issues and I get that because as video creators and bloggers I guess that is important to them.

It would appear the overheating issue when shooting hi-res video is a real problem with these new bodies. I would also worry re the possible long-term damage caused if all the time my camera was pushed to overheat every time I used it.

I can’t wait to buy an R6 for it’s stills capabilities AF performance, IBIS, lowlight capabilities and all the other improvements over my original R. I was also thinking to up the vids to 25fps 4K IPB but if it is causing overheating, I’ll simply stick with 1080 which my clients never complain about anyway.

Maybe Canon can improve the overheating issue with a combination of firmware and some kind of heat dispersing / cooling adaptor for those who need to shoot such hi-res for longer periods, either way it won’t put me off buying an R6.
 
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twoheadedboy

EOS R5
CR Pro
Jan 3, 2018
235
336
Kenosha, WI
2 ex
I still think half of the issue would have been mitigated if they advertised the camera's video specs based on only the modes that are not heat limited… "Does 4k30 without a crop!". Then they could say "Can also record small clips of 8k, 4k60, and 4kHQ, temperature permitting", in smaller letters.

I am more disappointed that the R6 does not have a 4k30 mode that is not heat limited. I managed to upsell myself on the R5 just because of that — I'm only thinking of the reliable non-heat-limited modes as what the camera can do, so for me the R6 cannot do 4k.

If it was 24 MP, had focus stacking, and non-heat-limited 4k 30p, I would have bought the R6 instead of the R5, even if it was $500 more.
 

wyotex43n

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 24, 2016
62
42
I received my R5 yesterday. Does anyone know what the semi circular piece on left side of the back is for? Possible knock out for additional cooling :) ;)

I also received the rf 15-35. But I did not receive the adapter ring. Everything is very familiar and Canon like but with a lot of new features.
I have only had time for a few snapshots but the image quality looks great. AF is spot on. Eye AF is impressive.




78EF194E-8471-4C28-9B1E-6F34F8A9ADDF_1_201_a.jpeg
78EF194E-8471-4C28-9B1E-6F34F8A9ADDF_1_201_a.jpeg
 

cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
737
To put my money where my mouth is, I ran my own test today. Summary from another post where the detailed setup is described.

My real customer overheating test. Camera pre-ordered from BH Photo at 6:05AM 7/9/20 and arrived yesterday. Ran a test I believe will cover MY needs and beyond, and to see if the camera would meet the stated run times (it does).

TEST SUMMARY: R5 with EF 24-105mm mk1 on control ring adapter. Batteries used are old LP-E6, mostly charged (90%). In constant direct sunlight @ 85 degrees ambient with low air flow, 5000kft altitude, moderate humidity. Camera mostly stationary. I was able to get the R5 to do the following, back to back:

  1. 30 mins 4K60P IPB
  2. 30 mins 1080P
  3. Took a couple stills, no issues
  4. 30 mins 4K30P (quick battery swap midway through)
  5. 8.5 mins 4K60P (The thermal warning started flashing right away when this recording started)
  6. Automatic thermal shutdown @ 8.5 mins into second 4K60P
  7. 20 minute cool down in 75 degrees with airflow (normal AC house)
  8. Restarted with no thermal warning for 4K60P
  9. Ended test
Compared temp at various times against powered-off 5D4 and 6D both also in the direct sunlight. At end of all tests, R5 was 10-15 degrees hotter (estimated by touch) than powered-off cameras.

For MY needs, this is quite reasonable and it met and exceeded what Canon said it would. In direct sun I expect any camera to eventually get too hot, especially these tiny bodies. This thing is a stills beast that can do competent FF video, but may not be an all day cinema camera. The amount of video it took in direct sun was more than I would ever do back to back. I'm sure variables are humidity, IBIS and focus activity, etc. but I was happy enough with this result which matched or exceeded the length promised by Canon in their own less strenuous testing. Is this the best do-it-all-in-one body camera for wedding photographers and event shooters who need high rate video? Doubt there really IS a body that can do-it-all-in-one that well yet. I own multiple brands of purpose built cameras for a reason. Hybrids are always a compromise.

The new Sony is a great example of a compromise in the opposite direction- 12MP not great for many stills applications but it will be better for many video users. In the real world though, it is reported as not all that much better at overheat than the R5 while pushing much less resolution and data. I'll stick to my Sony HXR-NX80 for long video shoots if I even need it anymore. Might be I am close enough for my video needs to sell it if the R5 continues to work out well.

Bottom line is these mirrorless bodies are small, very small. The 5D4 is larger. The R5 is weather sealed. It has IBIS and a giant MP sensor (relatively) to read out. It has incredible focusing system, great screen and viewfinder, wonderful ergonomics (except the small size that some of us don't like as well).

Folks can continue to loudly lament that it is not what they THOUGHT they heard promised, and call those of us embracing it ignorant fanboys if that floats their boat, or they can objectively start to look at what it can do, or look to more suitable products. If it is not for everyone, no worries I'll enjoy it, but I think this camera has had a very unrealistic public reaction lead by some very poor reviews and a lot of emotionalism without objectivity. Canon definitely could have marketed more smartly instead of blaring the video capabilities to an uninformed and entitled public- that set them up for trouble. They can and should improve the heating issue if possible. However overall this is the camera many of us waited for to move up from the 5D4. I'm liking it so far, and if it improves in the future, great but there is likely only so far the intended design can be pushed. Just wish it wasn't so tiny!
 
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D

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I received my R5 yesterday. Does anyone know what the semi circular piece on left side of the back is for?
Hmm, my best guess is that it is a bump protection for when you fold in the screen with the display pointed towards the back of the camera. Are those parts rubbery?

See the two little (probably rubbery) bumps to the very right of the display cutout? You can see similar bumps on the left side at the very ends of the half circle. It might be build as a half circle on this side to prevent pressure on the hinge.
 
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mppix

EOS RP
Feb 13, 2018
209
177
LOL I have ignored him since yesterday. Stalkerish and deluded type, guzzling that company kool-aid.

But I feel you Loibisch, to me they need to find a way to extend the overheating time a bit more, and more importantly they need to solve the heat build up that occurs by just having the camera in standby or stills mode.

The inadvertent heat build up in the non-video modes and even standby, effectively means the guidelines for recording times are incorrect, and are best case scenarios and not real world scenarios. This can lead some to say the camera does not function as intended. If they can't understand that, they aren't being objective.

I don't know why people aren't understanding this, especially those that portray themselves as professionals. The platform just seems too unpredictable to use as a professional who shoots stills along with any sort of video.

If your camera overheats on a paid shoot and causes delays, you can kiss a future job goodbye. And for some of us who get jobs through ad agencies, that can mean multiple jobs vanishing. Granted you should have two cameras at all times on any professional level, but still... You know what I mean.

Also most are focusing on the R5, but too me the R6 is in an even tougher position, with thermal limitations in every 4k mode. Compromises made to the overall resolution of the sensor, and compromises on all 4k modes, thats a tough pill to swallow. And it's nestled in an increasingly competitive price range.

One or two think I am bashing, or think these youtubers are bashing, but these things are not made up out of thin air, it's a fact that the issues exist. Its not perceived.

Some of you need to start a site called Canon Lovers where you only speak about good things, rainbows and flowers and stuffs.

Look, there are many here surprised by the video limitations -again- (its like a deja-vu to 5Div 4K complaints).
We all understand that the specs make the camera less capable for professional video work, but many simply don't care enough.

However, I also don't understand the buzz about mirrorless video for professional work. Maybe you can elaborate more.

We -as at my workplace- do quite some professional video work. Once we rig up cameras for said work, you kind of want to spend the C200+ money because it makes life so much easier, gives options that are simply not available otherwise, and it really does not change the overall budget by relevant margin.
Maybe I get vloggers and streamers, but who needs cinema-grade 4/8K just to be ruined by youtube, etc. compression algorithms? Shoot with an iphone, no?

PS. if you want to get paid more than once, bring the right+proven tools+backup for the job .every.single.time. Pros need lots of tools.
 
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Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
1,060
2,332
I think the Camera is Performing as Canon stated but they should have clarified that the record times are from a cold unit. I took my R5 out last night and shot 249 images full Raw, and was able to switch to 8K IPB and had 15mins showing, which I think was the SD cards limit:) cfexpress card should be here today.

Pictures or it didn’t happen.. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
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mppix

EOS RP
Feb 13, 2018
209
177
Esternal recorder however helps a lot, basically 4K60 unlimited going to a Ninja V. But you won't be able to use 4k120, 4k HQ or 8k for even a minute once you've built up the internal heat this way.
This is what I don't get: every other manufacturer overspecs HDMI out in the Cameras to bypass overheating with external recorders.
Canon consistently underspecs HDMI. The 5Div had up to 1080 only; the R5 has up to 4K60 (HDMI2.0). Still HDMI with 8K/30 or 4K120 is out there (HDMI2.1).
 

Bert63

What’s in da box?
CR Pro
Dec 3, 2017
1,060
2,332
Without going into too much detail, the issue is that heat builds up and never goes away. So I could be out taking pictures for an hour or so, causing the camera to accumulate heat. That heat never seems to go away due to the insulation of internal components.

So what that means if I ever want to use the 4K120fps or 8K modes at all, I have to do so at the start of my day. But being an event shooter I can't control when I need slow motion recordings, and I can't just leave the R5 off and in the bag the whole day just to be able to use one of it's basic functions. :)

Sounds like this isn’t the camera for you then.
 
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