I killed my brand new 7D MK2 today
- Thread starter Klaus Kleber
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CF cards should not go in backwards. There is a wide groove on one side and a narrow one on the other to prevent them from going in wrong.
Either it was forced in, or the card slot was defective. Pins do get bent though.
Either way, its a warranty item.
Either it was forced in, or the card slot was defective. Pins do get bent though.
Either way, its a warranty item.
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If you are putting one in sideways, it could bend pins if you scoop them. I've had two cameras with bent pins. One was a old powershot that I bought for the charger and the card that was in it, the other was a expensive DSLR that I was able to fix by carefully straightening the pin. The most extreme case of pin fixing came when I sent a guy to the top of a rocket on the launch pad at Cape Kennedy. He confirmed the pin issue and fixed it, but NASA wouldn't buy that, they replaced that electronic box. In this case, there was no danger of malfunction, but anything not perfect gets replaced.GraFax said:
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
Ah yes. The warranty ...
EOS DIGITAL CAMERA LIMITED WARRANTY
For The U.S.A. And Canada Only
"This limited warranty covers all defects encountered in normal use of the Product, and does not apply in
the following cases:
(a) Loss of or damage to the Product due to abuse, mishandling, improper packaging by you,
alteration, accident, electrical current fluctuations, failure to follow operating, maintenance or
environmental instructions prescribed in Canon U.S.A.'s or Canon Canada's user's manual or
services performed by someone other than Canon U.S.A. or Canon Canada, or a Canon
authorized service provider for the Product. Without limiting the foregoing, water damage,
sand/corrosion damage, battery leakage, dropping the Product, scratches, abrasions or damage
to the body, lenses or LCD display or damage to the any of the accessories mentioned in the first
paragraph above will be presumed to have resulted from misuse, abuse or failure to operate the
Product as set forth in the operating instructions."
There's always an escape clause somewhere ;D
In Bryan Carnathan case, I believe he owned up to the fact that it was his fault and even though he could send the camera, if need be, to CPS for repair; he also knew that Canon wouldn't be on the hook for the repair cost.
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I'm shaking my head over this. Sh!t happens!
And as I said, but no one read, it's the same way on the 1dx, and I bet a whole bunch of other cameras. My head hurts when I see "design flaw" and "we must find a solution".
This comes to mind:
http://youtu.be/ovwxBrIBj1w
Some things are just too obvious to discuss..
And as I said, but no one read, it's the same way on the 1dx, and I bet a whole bunch of other cameras. My head hurts when I see "design flaw" and "we must find a solution".
This comes to mind:
http://youtu.be/ovwxBrIBj1w
Some things are just too obvious to discuss..
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Klaus Kleber said:
This can happen if someone uses a brute force method to insert a card - but this can happen too if e.g. the guiding structure and the pins of the connector aren't aligned properly.
My personal "assessment" lead me to the conclusion (for 20D, 40D which have CF card slots) to use the USB port for the download of the image files. Maybe vastly slower than a modern card reader but USB is designed for plug and play and can be found on many devices which are used by "untrained personnel" -- it is designed for moderate misuse while CF cards are designed for "specialists". Reparing a "4 connector + shielding" port than repairing a socket inside the camera with 32 + x pins ...
But the 7Dii has - if my memory serves well - a small breakout board with the card slots. So repair will not be a procedure like "changing main board with sensor, processors etc.".
SD cards -- too after my own "assessment" -- are less prone to user errors due to just nine contact surfaces, no filigrane pins on the connector and developped for the "common user".
So good luck that your card board was a lemon and if Canon says it was "mishandling", hopefully service and material cost will be low - Best, Michael
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Khristo said:
Khristo,
Poka-yoke should be used. However no rule or legal statements tells you to do. Even the example in your link of an network attachment plug does not apply to that rule. You can push the plug 180degrees turned into the connector. I did once have a customer who did that. It cost him at that time a new network connection board for his computer.
The problem however for the CF card is that the dimensions of width and length are the almost the same, and the connections are made on the widest side. Sony memory cards are better designed on this mechanical dimensions. Only the smallest side can be entered into the device/reader. So this is not really a problem of Canon but of the complete industry that created a CF standard that is not fully solving the problem of entering a card in the wrong way. I agree that the CF standard is the real responsible for this, however I think you never will be followed in court for this as the complete industry is using that standard.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
That groove does not solve the problem. The other side is smaller then the side with the connections. It's not turned 180 degrees but only 90 degrees. Because you put in a smaller object into the slot, the pins can be damaged if you push hard.
No, this is no way a warranty item. No court will follow you on this. Otherwise every user will have a new camera at the end of the warranty period.
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Hey FEBS,
CF design does not seem to provide the best opportunities for fool proofing, but there is some, such as the "thicker" edge on the non-pin side.
Having got home to try for myself, I think there is reasonably adequate protection against improper insertion. You can get it in rotated 90 degrees, but you still have to push a bit and it certainly does not "feel right". This is exactly the same on my 5D3 as my old 40D, so it would seem to be a very standard set up for Canon. I'd doubt the 7D2 would be different, but if so it would be interesting to know.
Based on that though I'd have to call "operator error" - sorry Klaus
CF design does not seem to provide the best opportunities for fool proofing, but there is some, such as the "thicker" edge on the non-pin side.
Having got home to try for myself, I think there is reasonably adequate protection against improper insertion. You can get it in rotated 90 degrees, but you still have to push a bit and it certainly does not "feel right". This is exactly the same on my 5D3 as my old 40D, so it would seem to be a very standard set up for Canon. I'd doubt the 7D2 would be different, but if so it would be interesting to know.
Based on that though I'd have to call "operator error" - sorry Klaus
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It is not to believe! I think, we are in times, where a user guide is necessary for each handling. 
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Klaus_Kleber said:jrista said:Klaus Kleber said:
Warranty only applies if it is a manufacturing defect or other liability issue. If you break your own camera by your own stupidity...well, the warranty does not apply.
EDIT: And I just now realized that everyone else told you the same thing! :MAYBE it could be argued that this is a design flaw...I tried it with my 5D III and 7D, the card didn't seem that easy to put in...I had to exert some force, where as it just slides right in when I orient it properly. So, I don't think this could be construed as a design flaw. People just need to pay attention.
Yeah that might be true from a legal viewpoint but Amazon does not care.
I have send back quite an amount of defective gear over the years (during the warranty periode) and always got my money back or a replacement.
When it´s in the warranty periode Amazon does not even bother to check what is defective before you get your money back.
That´s one reason 70% of my online purchases are from Amazon.
PS: nice forum where you get insulted as stupid by so many people just because you want to warn them. Makes a good impression what kind of people Canon shooters are. :-[
Not trying to say that you are stupid, but it's a stupid mistake/behaviour. The distinction is crucial. We can all F* up - I certainly have from time to time - but as a responsible adult I should take the consequences for my actions, and not try to shove the cost for my mistake onto others.
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Well, design guru Don Norman tells us that such an event is not a showcase of the user's stupidity but of bad product design.
And I agree. The CF cards (or the slot or both) should be designed in a way, that there is one, only one, way to insert it into the camera.
Even worse, there is -as shown- more than one way to insert the card and this can damage the entire camera instead of just not working.
To the "Pff, he should have been careful" people: Something as trivial as putting a memory card into a camera should require the least concencration and effort. As this is not the case, as you have to be careful, this further hints to bad design.
And I agree. The CF cards (or the slot or both) should be designed in a way, that there is one, only one, way to insert it into the camera.
Even worse, there is -as shown- more than one way to insert the card and this can damage the entire camera instead of just not working.
To the "Pff, he should have been careful" people: Something as trivial as putting a memory card into a camera should require the least concencration and effort. As this is not the case, as you have to be careful, this further hints to bad design.
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Wow, this thread got a lot of attention...
While I love the CF card over other types of removable memory for performance and form factor, the fragile pin design is my only caveat/complaint. I'm an IT guy and I've used CF cards ever since they started. The pin design on CF cards is ancient. Almost nothing uses an exposed pin design like this anymore. (Remember IDE and SCSI hard drives?)
I wouldn't be too hard on the OP. This CAN happen. And Canon didn't design it, it's the CF standard.
The trick is to simply take your time when inserting and NEVER PUSH TOO HARD. If the card doesn't slide in like butter, don't force it. There is something wrong and forcing it will always end in regret!
Fortunately, I've never bent any pins in something important like a camera but I did bend pins in a reader one time. It was a cheap plastic reader that flexed a bit too much so the card could easily get out of alignment.
While I love the CF card over other types of removable memory for performance and form factor, the fragile pin design is my only caveat/complaint. I'm an IT guy and I've used CF cards ever since they started. The pin design on CF cards is ancient. Almost nothing uses an exposed pin design like this anymore. (Remember IDE and SCSI hard drives?)
I wouldn't be too hard on the OP. This CAN happen. And Canon didn't design it, it's the CF standard.
The trick is to simply take your time when inserting and NEVER PUSH TOO HARD. If the card doesn't slide in like butter, don't force it. There is something wrong and forcing it will always end in regret!
Fortunately, I've never bent any pins in something important like a camera but I did bend pins in a reader one time. It was a cheap plastic reader that flexed a bit too much so the card could easily get out of alignment.
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Sportsgal501 said:
Yeah, one can read that any way they like!
Way to go SportsGal! I like your style! LOLOL!
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That really stynks about your camera.
I hope you can get it fixed easily and inexpensively.
I try to limit my taking cards in and out of my camera. I use the USB cable almost exclusively so my big card never leaves the camera.
Good luck with it.
I hope you can get it fixed easily and inexpensively.
I try to limit my taking cards in and out of my camera. I use the USB cable almost exclusively so my big card never leaves the camera.
Good luck with it.
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
Why? I just don't see that at all. Sure if the card board has defective manufacturing tolerances but that really is pushing it, but why do you think it is a warranty claim if it was forced in?
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Sportsgal501
Got hit in the face by a skateboard got the shot!
Film cameras were less complicated,simply paying attention and putting on LIGHTS would help with the insertion of memory cards apparently. And it's not a warranty issue because the card nor the pin was defective, just carelessness.
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