IBIS coming to EOS M in 2020 [CR1]

slclick

Unsolicited & Always Free
Dec 17, 2013
4,495
2,772
Do I smell an M1 coming? Once the R5 and R6 come out, that may leave more room for a high-end M camera. But, as it sits right now, the M6 Mark II is a significantly more capable camera than either the EOS RP or R. Had the M6 Mark II come with a built-in EVF it would have really trounced on the EOS R.
Ok, I will take the bait. Give me a head to head list of how the M6ll bests the R. I'm all ears.(significantly more capable requires multiple substantial specs) GO!
 
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Danglin52

Wildlife Shooter
Aug 8, 2018
311
309
luckily Canon also has a good selection of large and very large camera bodies for your 100-400. :)

EOS M lineup caters to the essence of crop gear: 1. small size and 2. low price.

100-400 L glass is a different use case. Although i myself have also been shooting with a (tamron) 150-600 attached to a tiny EOS M (1st gen). of course the lens - just like the 100-400 - had a tripod foot which i used to put the combo on a tripod. no problem with camera body or grip being too small.

is it really so hard to understand Canon's product lines? if you got the money and dont mind or want things big, get a big FF camera and big FF lenses. and if you want things small, light and affordable, get a crop camera and crop lenses. if you want both, get both.

where is the problem?

I have been using Canon gear since 2000, so I have a pretty good understanding of Canon product lines. If you look at the capabilities of the 90d and the M6 II they are are almost identical. The problem is that the 90d does not perform as well as the M6 II especially on tracking. I tested the 90d in Yellowstone and it had a problem maintaining focus on bursts around 6-8 shots. It would loose focus and then come back after 2-3 missed shots. Apparently, if you shoot in Live View mode, the 90d can maintain focus. If you look at my gear list, you will see that I do shoot a heavy body (1dx II) and just sold my 5dIV late last year to clear the way for the R5. I do a lot of big trips and like to have reliable backups to my main camera. I would also like to keep a have a smaller camera (90d or M5/M6 II) that I can substitute if I have weight restriction on want a smaller camera as walk around. I have done what you described with the M6 II attached to my 200-400 mounted on a tripod, funny to see but works pretty well. The reason I would like a X-T4 sized camera is it would give a little more heft while still being small and would make an awesome walk around combination with the APS-C sized sensor. I think the M?? rumored could have the potential to meet the needs of those in the XXD line that want a fully capable camera that can use small, light lenses from the M line while having full compatibility with EF via the adaptor. Canon has the XXD and XXXD APS-C lines I am sure they would like to move to mirrorless since those are both eroding. I see a lot of other folks on the forum driven by their unique needs, so I took my shot. BTW - Even without large lenses, I have large hands that are tight fit on the m6II - M5 felt a little better.

David
 
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picperfect

EOS 90D
Mar 29, 2020
112
92
i do agree that an EOS M7 should be (at least) on par with Fuji XT-4. But since i have small hands and travel and mountaineer and ski ... i'd prefer it to be as compact and light as possible. :)
 

mcfrlnd

EOS R5 & 5D MK IV
Sep 13, 2019
14
13
At some point Canon is going to phase out DSLR entirely. I can't imagine it taking longer than a few years. They've already established the R as the heir apparent to FF body lineup. It may not be exactly what we have today or impending future, but I can't imagine it being wholly different. I don't know what they're thinking for their higher tier crop bodies. The current EOS M lineup is greatly insufficient to take over for the 70-80-90D. Maybe the upcoming higher end model will provide answers. I hope so, and hopefully it'll be close to the RP size and and provide the much wanted traditional camera feel. Maybe the RP was the test bed in FF disguise? I dunno, but they're going to have to address the better APS-C mirrorless transition soon...or they could just drop it entirely given the current global crisis.
 

IcyBergs

I have a Sony...TV
May 31, 2016
132
283
luckily Canon also has a good selection of large and very large camera bodies for your 100-400. :)

EOS M lineup caters to the essence of crop gear: 1. small size and 2. low price.

100-400 L glass is a different use case. Although i myself have also been shooting with a (tamron) 150-600 attached to a tiny EOS M (1st gen). of course the lens - just like the 100-400 - had a tripod foot which i used to put the combo on a tripod. no problem with camera body or grip being too small.

is it really so hard to understand Canon's product lines? if you got the money and dont mind or want things big, get a big FF camera and big FF lenses. and if you want things small, light and affordable, get a crop camera and crop lenses. if you want both, get both.

where is the problem?

The problem is Canon won't cannibalize the EOS R that is primed to dominate enthusiast and professional camera sales for the foreseeable future continuing a legacy of ILC dominance that they have maintained for nearly 2 straight decades by releasing a Fuji X-T4 competitor with a full suite of L grade APS-C glass for the new professional crop camera line. :p
 

David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
836
696
www.flickr.com
The problem is Canon won't cannibalize the EOS R that is primed to dominate enthusiast and professional camera sales for the foreseeable future continuing a legacy of ILC dominance that they have maintained for nearly 2 straight decades by releasing a Fuji X-T4 competitor with a full suite of L grade APS-C glass for the new professional crop camera line. :p
I think that it is clear that the R5 with crop will fit all the ex-7 series requirements (speed, tracking, reach etc) but at a cost. Weather sealing is still be proven though. It would still be cheaper than a 1Dx of course.
I believe that the real advantage of the 7 series was price/value.
Owners of big white L lens would use the R5 although M7 could be a backup for EF lens.
Would M7 owners use the 100-400mm and maybe an extender - much more likely - assuming that it has the features mentioned above the M6ii and perhaps a tad physically larger. Speed and tracking (with "reach" from APS-C sensor) would be much better than the RP and R but price will be interesting to see.
 

Pape

EOS RP
Dec 31, 2018
603
365
i do agree that an EOS M7 should be (at least) on par with Fuji XT-4. But since i have small hands and travel and mountaineer and ski ... i'd prefer it to be as compact and light as possible. :)
So you suggesting tall peoples should have another hobby or camera brand :p
 
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slclick

Unsolicited & Always Free
Dec 17, 2013
4,495
2,772
So there we have it

M7 specs:


Lens Mount EF-M
Camera Format APS-C (1.6x Crop Factor)
Pixels Effective: 26.1 Megapixel
Maximum Resolution 6240 x 4160
Aspect Ratio 1:1, 3:2, 16:9
Sensor Type CMOS
Sensor Size 23.5 x 15.6 mm
Image File Format JPEG, Raw, TIFF
Bit Depth 16-Bit
Image Stabilization Sensor-Shift, 5-Axis
Exposure Control
ISO Sensitivity Auto, 160 to 12800 (Extended: 80 to 51200)
Shutter Speed Mechanical Shutter
1/8000 to 900 Second in Manual Mode
1/8000 to 900 Second in Shutter Priority Mode
1/8000 to 30 Second in Aperture Priority Mode
1/8000 to 4 Second in Program Mode
0 to 60 Minute in Bulb Mode
Electronic Shutter
1/32000 to 900 Second in Manual Mode
1/32000 to 900 Second in Shutter Priority Mode
1/32000 to 30 Second in Aperture Priority Mode
1/32000 to 4 Second in Program Mode
1 to 1 Second in Bulb Mode
Electronic Front Curtain Shutter
1/8000 to 900 Second in Manual Mode
1/8000 to 900 Second in Shutter Priority Mode
1/8000 to 30 Second in Aperture Priority Mode
1/8000 to 4 Second in Program Mode
0 to 60 Minute in Bulb Mode
Electronic Shutter
1/8000 to 1/4 Second in Movie Mode
Metering Method Average, Center-Weighted Average, Multiple, Spot
Exposure Modes Aperture Priority, Manual, Program, Shutter Priority
Exposure Compensation -5 to +5 EV (1/3 EV Steps)
White Balance Auto, Color Temperature, Custom, Fine, Fluorescent (Cool White), Fluorescent (Daylight), Fluorescent (Warm White), Incandescent, Shade, Underwater
Continuous Shooting Mechanical Shutter
Up to 15 fps at 26.1 MP for up to 38 Frames (Raw) / 110 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 10 fps at 26.1 MP for up to 44 Frames (Raw) / 164 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 8 fps at 26.1 MP for up to 49 Frames (Raw) / 200 Frames (JPEG)
Electronic Shutter
Up to 20 fps at 26.1 MP for up to 36 Frames (Raw) / 79 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 30 fps at 20.9 MP for up to 35 Frames (Raw) / 60 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 20 fps at 20.9 MP for up to 37 Frames (Raw) / 114 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 10 fps at 20.9 MP for up to 48 Frames (Raw) / 500 Frames (JPEG)
Interval Recording Yes
Self-Timer 2/10-Second Delay
Video
Recording Modes MOV/H.264/H.265 10-Bit
DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p [100 to 400 Mb/s]
UHD 4K (3840 x 2160) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p [100 to 400 Mb/s]
DCI 2K (2048 x 1080) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p [50 to 200 Mb/s]
Full HD (1920 x 1080) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p/100p/119.88p/240p [50 to 200 Mb/s]
External Recording Modes 10-Bit
DCI 4K (4096 x 2160)
Recording Limit Up to 30 Minutes
Video Encoding NTSC/PAL
Audio Recording Built-In Microphone (Stereo)
External Microphone Input (Stereo)
Audio File Format AAC, Linear PCM (Stereo)
Focus
Focus Type Auto and Manual Focus
Focus Mode Continuous-Servo AF (C), Manual Focus (M), Single-Servo AF (S)
Autofocus Points Phase Detection: 425
Viewfinder and Monitor
Viewfinder Type Electronic (OLED)
Viewfinder Size 0.5"
Viewfinder Resolution 3,690,000 Dot
Viewfinder Eye Point 23 mm
Viewfinder Coverage 100%
Viewfinder Magnification Approx. 0.75x
Diopter Adjustment -4 to +2
Monitor Size 3"
Monitor Resolution 1,620,000 Dot
Monitor Type Articulating Touchscreen LCD
Flash
Built-In Flash No
Flash Modes Commander, Manual, Off, Slow Sync, TTL Auto
Maximum Sync Speed 1/250 Second
Dedicated Flash System TTL
External Flash Connection Hot Shoe, PC Terminal
Interface
Memory Card Slot Dual Slot: SD/SDHC/SDXC (UHS-II)
Connectivity USB Type-C (USB 3.1), HDMI D (Micro), 3.5mm Microphone, 2.5mm Sub-Mini, PC Sync Socket
Wireless Bluetooth
Wi-Fi
GPS No
Environmental
Operating Temperature 14 to 104°F / -10 to 40°C
Operating Humidity 10 to 80%
Physical
Battery 1 x NP-W235 Rechargeable Lithium-Ion, 7.2 VDC, 2200 mAh (Approx. 600 Shots)
Dimensions (W x H x D) 5.3 x 3.65 x 2.51" / 134.6 x 92.8 x 63.8 mm
Weight 1.16 lb / 526 g (Body Only)

Oh, forgot user height limit....
 
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Pape

EOS RP
Dec 31, 2018
603
365
I think its obvious M7 or M1 coming for those who need ultimate reach . There was patent for 100mm f2 macro and 100-400mm f7,1 already.
Camera what will be under RP, will be camera for those who need small and cheap camera for normal photography.
Ef-s and crop cameras were for small size and cheap price.It will be upside down on future. Full frame is just better camera on normal photography when you can get all reach you need by moving legs.
 

-pekr-

EOS R5
CR Pro
luckily Canon also has a good selection of large and very large camera bodies for your 100-400. :)

EOS M lineup caters to the essence of crop gear: 1. small size and 2. low price.

100-400 L glass is a different use case. Although i myself have also been shooting with a (tamron) 150-600 attached to a tiny EOS M (1st gen). of course the lens - just like the 100-400 - had a tripod foot which i used to put the combo on a tripod. no problem with camera body or grip being too small.

is it really so hard to understand Canon's product lines? if you got the money and dont mind or want things big, get a big FF camera and big FF lenses. and if you want things small, light and affordable, get a crop camera and crop lenses. if you want both, get both.

where is the problem?

"Is it really hard to understand Canon's produc lines?" - you tell me, as you are apparently not. The problem is you not undestanding the needs of all particular user groups. Where is a replacement for the 7DII users? EOS-M got fast, nice - but what about the body ergonomics? What about the reach due to the crop factor? If Canon is going to create a large M body and still keep the M mount, it will be a big fail, much bigger, than creating an R with APS-C, or allowing some crop mode.
 

picperfect

EOS 90D
Mar 29, 2020
112
92
... Where is a replacement for the 7DII users? EOS-M got fast, nice - but what about the body ergonomics? What about the reach due to the crop factor? If Canon is going to create a large M body and still keep the M mount, it will be a big fail, ...

Exactly. Big crop sensor / EOS M bodies make no sense.

7D II successors for those who mainly use long tele lenses (birding, wildlife) will be FF-sensor EOS R models. Resolution and speed are/will be fine, crop mode can be used for extra reach. Price will be somewhat higher than 7D II, but those who buy white Canon L tele lenses can typically afford it.

that's how i read Canon product strategy.
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,334
2,186
Exactly. Big crop sensor / EOS M bodies make no sense.

7D II successors for those who mainly use long tele lenses (birding, wildlife) will be FF-sensor EOS R models. Resolution and speed are/will be fine, crop mode can be used for extra reach. Price will be somewhat higher than 7D II, but those who buy white Canon L tele lenses can typically afford it.

that's how i read Canon product strategy.

This only makes sense if Canon comes out with a full frame with a very high pixel density/pitch. (There's no point offering a crop mode if the result has too low a resolution.)

However, this is precisely what they are going to do!

7D people, your Mark III is on its way, and it's called the R5. Or if you really want megapickles, wait for the R3/R5s.
 
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Pape

EOS RP
Dec 31, 2018
603
365
This only makes sense if Canon comes out with a full frame with a very high pixel density/pitch. (There's no point offering a crop mode if the result has too low a resolution.)

However, this is precisely what they are going to do!

7D people, your Mark III is on its way, and it's called the R5. Or if you really want megapickles, wait for the R3/R5s.
R5 price will be like 5k on europe ,no really half serious hobby bird photographers camera. M7 could be 1k
 
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SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,334
2,186
R5 price will be like 5k on europe ,no really half serious hobby bird photographers camera. M7 could be 1k

It could be...but would it be weather sealed and have a second card slot?

If that doesn't matter to someone, then yes this M7 (still rather hypothetical) could be the way to go for them.
 
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Pape

EOS RP
Dec 31, 2018
603
365
It could be...but would it be weather sealed and have a second card slot?

If that doesn't matter to someone, then yes this M7 (still rather hypothetical) could be the way to go for them.
i am not weather sealed ,i stay home when wet :p
 
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D

Deleted member 378664

Guest
I agree! I would like the RP size body with a battery grip. A little more to hold on to when using longer lenses, like 100-400, etc.
Than you and Danglin are in for the upcoming R6. I do not understand the wish for EOS M in the size of the RP. EOS M is meant to be small and light and not for use with heavy telephoto zoom lenses like 100-400. Where is the logic in buying small and light and making it big and heavy again with such lenses plus a battery grip?
 

Cat_Interceptor

M6 II fanboy
Oct 20, 2019
81
130
alliancemotorsport.org
Ok, I will take the bait. Give me a head to head list of how the M6ll bests the R. I'm all ears.(significantly more capable requires multiple substantial specs) GO!

Speed is the big one, AF/Tracking ability is the second. Usability the third. So yes I would actually think it's signifigantly better - And if anyone says the IQ on the R is better than the M6 II well... I'm calling BS. Only under higly specific circumstances is the R better, esp given its not in any shape new re: processor. The only places the M6 II is behind is due to the basic frame it's in.

----

On a theoretical camera above the M6 II, I cant really see it being a genuine 7D II replacement. I tend to think that if they do a APS-C prosumer it'll be more likely a R7. As good as EF adapters are, I just cant see a 7D II style camera in the M line (7D style being more than just a camera with dual slots and a body that can be used as a weapon - it's effectively a cut down 1D in APS-C packaging)

It *will* have the M6 II's image processor, no doubt. The EVF will be intergrated. It will support far more with the hotshoe and connectivity. But M? No. If we ever see a 7D successor (C'mon Canon you know this would be a hot seller!) it will be in a R body. But as already pointed out ... unless the R5 isnt 100% war proof its the real 7D repalcement.

Where is the logic in buying small and light and making it big and heavy again with such lenses plus a battery grip?

When it works as well in real life and real shooting, then there is great logic in it.