If Canon wants to kill off Nikon/Sony/Pentax drop APS-C and Go APS-H

[Bosman]

The next 7D with an aps-h sensor like the 1dm4 would kill! I'd buy it. Sensor size has always been one of the largest points of any camera. Bigger sensored cameras have more photo-site space and with gapless lens technology on the 1DX and 5DM3 its a big win over the Nikons non-D series sports cameras. Its also a win over Sony and others that are 1.5 or 1.6 crop. This would separate the 7d from the two digit series cameras like the 60d. It would kind of take the old helm of the sports camera but in the middle spot the 1dm2/3/4 held.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Dropping users with the 10's of millions of EF-S lenses would more likely kill Canon.
The APS-C / EF-s market makes up most of Canon's DSLR sales, and they are eating Nikon and Sony's lunch.
I love APS-H, but I do not see Canon killing off themselves purposely. If low cost FF cameras are actually coming out, our APS-H bodies may be the last of a 20 year run. (My Kodak DCS 460 from 1995).
APS-H was originally made due to lithography limitations, it was te largest senso size that could be made with one pass. The restriction is lifted now, and 12 inch wafers are used instead of 8 in wafers to give better yield.
There really are no compelling reasons to keep churning them out.

 

[wickidwombat]

The next 7D with an aps-h sensor like the 1dm4 would kill! I'd buy it. Sensor size has always been one of the largest points of any camera. Bigger sensored cameras have more photo-site space and with gapless lens technology on the 1DX and 5DM3 its a big win over the Nikons non-D series sports cameras. Its also a win over Sony and others that are 1.5 or 1.6 crop. This would separate the 7d from the two digit series cameras like the 60d. It would kind of take the old helm of the sports camera but in the middle spot the 1dm2/3/4 held.

Amen Brother! [puts on robe and dances around with hands in air]

 

[Bosman]

Dropping users with the 10's of millions of EF-S lenses would more likely kill Canon.
The APS-C / EF-s market makes up most of Canon's DSLR sales, and they are eating Nikon and Sony's lunch.
I love APS-H, but I do not see Canon killing off themselves purposely. If low cost FF cameras are actually coming out, our APS-H bodies may be the last of a 20 year run. (My Kodak DCS 460 from 1995).
APS-H was originally made due to lithography limitations, it was te largest senso size that could be made with one pass. The restriction is lifted now, and 12 inch wafers are used instead of 8 in wafers to give better yield.
There really are no compelling reasons to keep churning them out.

I thought i offered compelling reasons. Lol

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Dropping users with the 10's of millions of EF-S lenses would more likely kill Canon.
The APS-C / EF-s market makes up most of Canon's DSLR sales, and they are eating Nikon and Sony's lunch.
I love APS-H, but I do not see Canon killing off themselves purposely. If low cost FF cameras are actually coming out, our APS-H bodies may be the last of a 20 year run. (My Kodak DCS 460 from 1995).
APS-H was originally made due to lithography limitations, it was te largest senso size that could be made with one pass. The restriction is lifted now, and 12 inch wafers are used instead of 8 in wafers to give better yield.
There really are no compelling reasons to keep churning them out.

I thought i offered compelling reasons. Lol

Maybe for you and me, but if you have a 10-22mm , 17-85mm ef-s, or 15-85mm ef-s, you might see it differently, In fact, now that I think about it, I do have a 15-85mm ef-s for my 7D. i'm not worried though, their will be a adapter for the new Canon mirrorless. (Now, there was a chance to use APS-H, but likely missed)

 

[Bosman]

I think it comes down to production costs. The Aps-h gets far fewer sensors per sensor wafer made than the aps-c, I wonder how that plays out in the 12in size sensor wafers. And yes they could have done a service by throwing that in a mirrorless or the G1X.
I guess when Canon went to FF those same concerns about lenses applied but then theres always the double digit cameras to use with those just as it was before the 7d.

 

[wickidwombat]

agreed mirrorless was the perfect platform to bring APS-H back and it completely dominate

BALL= DROPPED

 

[unfocused]

Dropping users with the 10's of millions of EF-S lenses would more likely kill Canon.
The APS-C / EF-s market makes up most of Canon's DSLR sales, and they are eating Nikon and Sony's lunch.
I love APS-H, but I do not see Canon killing off themselves purposely. If low cost FF cameras are actually coming out, our APS-H bodies may be the last of a 20 year run. (My Kodak DCS 460 from 1995).
APS-H was originally made due to lithography limitations, it was te largest senso size that could be made with one pass. The restriction is lifted now, and 12 inch wafers are used instead of 8 in wafers to give better yield.
There really are no compelling reasons to keep churning them out.

I thought i offered compelling reasons. Lol

You were wrong. You didn't.

 

[RLPhoto]

The next 7D with an aps-h sensor like the 1dm4 would kill! I'd buy it. Sensor size has always been one of the largest points of any camera. Bigger sensored cameras have more photo-site space and with gapless lens technology on the 1DX and 5DM3 its a big win over the Nikons non-D series sports cameras. Its also a win over Sony and others that are 1.5 or 1.6 crop. This would separate the 7d from the two digit series cameras like the 60d. It would kind of take the old helm of the sports camera but in the middle spot the 1dm2/3/4 held.

Agreed. It would rape aps-c. Now if canon could retro-fit EF-S to aps-h... :

 

[Bosman]

Dropping users with the 10's of millions of EF-S lenses would more likely kill Canon.
The APS-C / EF-s market makes up most of Canon's DSLR sales, and they are eating Nikon and Sony's lunch.
I love APS-H, but I do not see Canon killing off themselves purposely. If low cost FF cameras are actually coming out, our APS-H bodies may be the last of a 20 year run. (My Kodak DCS 460 from 1995).
APS-H was originally made due to lithography limitations, it was te largest senso size that could be made with one pass. The restriction is lifted now, and 12 inch wafers are used instead of 8 in wafers to give better yield.
There really are no compelling reasons to keep churning them out.

I thought i offered compelling reasons. Lol

You were wrong. You didn't.

Thanks for your input.

 

[unfocused]

Dropping users with the 10's of millions of EF-S lenses would more likely kill Canon.
The APS-C / EF-s market makes up most of Canon's DSLR sales, and they are eating Nikon and Sony's lunch.
I love APS-H, but I do not see Canon killing off themselves purposely. If low cost FF cameras are actually coming out, our APS-H bodies may be the last of a 20 year run. (My Kodak DCS 460 from 1995).
APS-H was originally made due to lithography limitations, it was te largest senso size that could be made with one pass. The restriction is lifted now, and 12 inch wafers are used instead of 8 in wafers to give better yield.
There really are no compelling reasons to keep churning them out.

I thought i offered compelling reasons. Lol

You were wrong. You didn't.

Thanks for your input.

You are welcome. Sorry if I offended you, but this topic has been beaten to death and nothing new has been added by this thread. Mt. Spokane's response said it all.

You are a wedding photographer. If you feel strongly about APS-H, then explain how it would be superior for your profession to the 5DIII which Canon targeted specifically to wedding photographers (among others). If you can build a compelling case as to why APS-H would give you something you can't get and need with the 5DIII, then that would add to the conversation.

 

[poias]

The next 7D with an aps-h sensor like the 1dm4 would kill! I'd buy it. Sensor size has always been one of the largest points of any camera. Bigger sensored cameras have more photo-site space and with gapless lens technology on the 1DX and 5DM3 its a big win over the Nikons non-D series sports cameras. Its also a win over Sony and others that are 1.5 or 1.6 crop. This would separate the 7d from the two digit series cameras like the 60d. It would kind of take the old helm of the sports camera but in the middle spot the 1dm2/3/4 held.

With Canon's archaic sensor tech, I really doubt they would want to fiddle with sensor sizes. They even had to get rid of the APS-H sensor. Canon can compete by offering other value added features such as frame rates, JPG engines, touch screens, 4K video, 60 to 120p, rate buttons, print buttons, email buttons, and even Facebook browsing.

 

[wickidwombat]

Dropping users with the 10's of millions of EF-S lenses would more likely kill Canon.
The APS-C / EF-s market makes up most of Canon's DSLR sales, and they are eating Nikon and Sony's lunch.
I love APS-H, but I do not see Canon killing off themselves purposely. If low cost FF cameras are actually coming out, our APS-H bodies may be the last of a 20 year run. (My Kodak DCS 460 from 1995).
APS-H was originally made due to lithography limitations, it was te largest senso size that could be made with one pass. The restriction is lifted now, and 12 inch wafers are used instead of 8 in wafers to give better yield.
There really are no compelling reasons to keep churning them out.

I thought i offered compelling reasons. Lol

You were wrong. You didn't.

Thanks for your input.

insightfull as ever too i see

 

[distant.star]

.

Careful you don't fall off the barstool there, Sparky.

 

[wickidwombat]

You are a wedding photographer. If you feel strongly about APS-H, then explain how it would be superior for your profession to the 5DIII which Canon targeted specifically to wedding photographers (among others). If you can build a compelling case as to why APS-H would give you something you can't get and need with the 5DIII, then that would add to the conversation.

An APS-H body is a great complementary body to shoot with full frame
I would much rather shoot a 16-35 f2.8L II on an APS-H body (20mm to 46mm) than the current 24-70 on full frame coupled with a full frame body and 85 f1.4 you can shoot pretty much everything
I cant wait to see the new 24-70 to see if it can make this reason for using APS-H at weddings redundant
even though sometimes i find the 24mm wide end a little tight however now I have the 20mm voigtlander pancake this can be quite easily solved for those select shots where I want to go to 20mm

IMO I would not pay someone to shoot my wedding with an APS-C camera

 

[bdunbar79]

You are a wedding photographer. If you feel strongly about APS-H, then explain how it would be superior for your profession to the 5DIII which Canon targeted specifically to wedding photographers (among others). If you can build a compelling case as to why APS-H would give you something you can't get and need with the 5DIII, then that would add to the conversation.

An APS-H body is a great complementary body to shoot with full frame
I would much rather shoot a 16-35 f2.8L II on an APS-H body (20mm to 46mm) than the current 24-70 on full frame coupled with a full frame body and 85 f1.4 you can shoot pretty much everything
I cant wait to see the new 24-70 to see if it can make this reason for using APS-H at weddings redundant
even though sometimes i find the 24mm wide end a little tight however now I have the 20mm voigtlander pancake this can be quite easily solved for those select shots where I want to go to 20mm

IMO I would not pay someone to shoot my wedding with an APS-C camera

My 1D Mark IV is fantastic at outdoor track and field. I can take a 300mm lens and put it on and get 390mm. Too far? Unscrew the camera and slap on a 5D Mark III. It's great.

 

[Rocky]

If Canon can build a "Entry level FF" for $2000. Canon can build a "APS-H entry level" cheaper than $2000 and smaller. Building APS-H does not mean to abandon the EF_S lenses, as long as APS-H co-exists with APS-C. Just like the FF co-exist with APS-C now. Did any body complain about FF is abandoning EF-S lenses???

 

[Bosman]

I apologize if i don't feel the need to pander to Mr Unfocussed's requests for more specific detailed reasons why i feel this is a logical move. However, i will say this. I have been shooting aps-h and FF since 2007. My 24 lives on the 1dm3 and the 50L lives on the 5dm3. I will switch them back and forth at times. I posted and many agree with me and some disagree, However a dissertation for a person who slaps me at every pass is not of interest to me.
Put an APS-h on a 7dm2 and many will buy the increased resolution as well as newest sensor tech, myself included. No need for a 1dx with that setup.

 

[briansquibb]

I apologize if i don't feel the need to pander to Mr Unfocussed's requests for more specific detailed reasons why i feel this is a logical move. However, i will say this. I have been shooting aps-h and FF since 2007. My 24 lives on the 1dm3 and the 50L lives on the 5dm3. I will switch them back and forth at times. I posted and many agree with me and some disagree, However a dissertation for a person who slaps me at every pass is not of interest to me.
Put an APS-h on a 7dm2 and many will buy the increased resolution as well as newest sensor tech, myself included. No need for a 1dx with that setup.

I read the original post as suggesting APS-H to go alongside FF not dump APS-C

I think Bosman is correct, 1.3 crop + f/8 + high mps would knock the others for six.

After all the others are using either a 1.5 crop or ff - to get a 1.3 crop with ff IQ has to be a winner

 

[jrista]

The next 7D with an aps-h sensor like the 1dm4 would kill! I'd buy it. Sensor size has always been one of the largest points of any camera. Bigger sensored cameras have more photo-site space and with gapless lens technology on the 1DX and 5DM3 its a big win over the Nikons non-D series sports cameras. Its also a win over Sony and others that are 1.5 or 1.6 crop. This would separate the 7d from the two digit series cameras like the 60d. It would kind of take the old helm of the sports camera but in the middle spot the 1dm2/3/4 held.

Agreed. It would rape aps-c. Now if canon could retro-fit EF-S to aps-h... :

I've never understood this sentiment. There are distinct reasons to choose a given sensor form factor. In the case of APS-C and the 7D, I EXPLICITLY chose it because it was APS-C, which offers a 1.62x crop factor. That offers the benefit of additional reach, when comparing on a megapixel-normal basis (i.e. all 18mp sensors for any given format, the smaller the sensor the greater the reach.) I think FF, APS-H, and APS-C all have their place, and I do not believe Canon is "killing off" APS-H based on their own words. APS-H offers a nice balance between larger sensor area and therefor thinner DOF, without completely eliminating the crop factor and therefor reach benefit.

I'd love to have an APS-H option again from Canon, however I do not believe that the next 7D will be it...that would affect too many owners who already have EF-S lenses...it would be a more stupid move on Canon's part to break the 7D line by introducing a new sensor type. I could see either a new type of 1D X that uses an APS-H, although given the effort Canon went through to merge the previous 1D/1Ds lines, I imagine a new line would come out...9D? 5Ds? I believe 3 and 4 have superstitious connotations in Japan, so maybe we'll get a 6D out of the mix. Either way...I highly doubt that the 7D's form factor will change, ever...APS-C has a lot of value for those of us who need additional reach...and I would be extremely dismayed if it was changed to APS-H with the next version.

If I had to pick one single thing that would make me buy a 7D II the day it came out was a sensor with better high-ISO DR and greater SNR. I'm not as concerned about low-ISO DR for this type of camera...its geared for action shooting, which generally necessitates higher ISO settings unless you have unbelievably fantastic light. The nasty thing about the 7D is its noise...in two respects. One, noise in background blur areas can be really atrocious...even in the high midtones and low highlights, you still get a lot of noise (which is curious and confusing...shouldn't be that way). Second, fixed pattern noise shows through on a fairly frequent basis, often right up through the midtones. I can take noise in general, but the quality of Canon's noise has gotten pretty bad recently...or perhaps not improved at all over previous sensor designs. Both Nikon-made and Sony-made sensors have offered a better quality of noise than Canon for some time, and I think that could be the single greatest area for improvement in the 7D that Canon can make.

Reduce noise, and make what noise there is more pleasing, and keep the APS-C...do that, and I'm already a 7D II customer. Add f/8 AF in an APS-C body, and Canon will keep me as a customer for life.