I'm getting impatient for the new 5D 4.

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Be wary of the hype. You don't always hear about the shortcomings that make owning and using a camera pleasant.

I bought a D800 along with some high end Nikon lenses. I tethered my 5D MK II using live view while attached to my pc a lot, but its a bad joke with Nikon cameras. Manual focusing is difficult due to the delayed response, and the image resolution is so poor as to make manual focus using tethering to a 24 inch monitor useless. Then, to make matters worse, you have to pay a big price for software that Canon provides free. My 24-70 f/2.8G had excessive CA's at the edges, LR could not remove it all. (I later found out this is normal).

If you are thinking of using a D800E as a wedding camera, skip it. The moiré can be horrible for lace dresses and pin stripe suits. I haven't seen many reports about the D810 yet, but it is apparently better in that regard.

On the other hand, A D800E (D810) is great when used for landscape where high resolution is very desirable. Its good for most general outdoor use. You will need to learn to be very careful in order to get all the resolution possible, just persist and learn. Casual photographers who just want to point and shoot often sell their camera out of frustration.

 

[martti]

Be wary of the hype. You don't always hear about the shortcomings that make owning and using a camera pleasant.

I bought a D800 along with some high end Nikon lenses. I tethered my 5D MK II using live view while attached to my pc a lot, but its a bad joke with Nikon cameras. Manual focusing is difficult due to the delayed response, and the image resolution is so poor as to make manual focus using tethering to a 24 inch monitor useless. Then, to make matters worse, you have to pay a big price for software that Canon provides free. My 24-70 f/2.8G had excessive CA's at the edges, LR could not remove it all. (I later found out this is normal).

If you are thinking of using a D800E as a wedding camera, skip it. The moiré can be horrible for lace dresses and pin stripe suits. I haven't seen many reports about the D810 yet, but it is apparently better in that regard.

On the other hand, A D800E (D810) is great when used for landscape where high resolution is very desirable. Its good for most general outdoor use. You will need to learn to be very careful in order to get all the resolution possible, just persist and learn. Casual photographers who just want to point and shoot often sell their camera out of frustration.

Now that was info that does not show up in the (paid?) reviews.
The most valuable point you made was about learning. Technicalities one thing, taming and framing your subjects another. Nice posting from a pro! Thank you.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi JC.
I'm having trouble getting to grips with your two contradictory statements, as in you haven't felt the need to upgrade your decade old P&S until now, but feel that you will outgrow a far more complex and capable DSLR in a year or so?
Any one of the cameras you have compared should provide you a lifetime of fantastic images based on how long it took to outgrow a G6! As others have said, waiting is a long wait for the next greatest thing since bread came sliced!
Others may prove me wrong here, but it seems that the incremental improvements between versions are getting smaller, perhaps with the exception of the 7DII.

Good luck choosing.

Cheers, Graham.

I am new here and have only a Powershot G6 which is a decade old now...

I have no DSLR and yet I do not want to spend on a body like the 700D, 70D, 7D, 6D etc etc to get started, I just don't want to spend 500-1k on a camera I will want to upgrade from in a years time,

 

[Besisika]

Hi JC.
I'm having trouble getting to grips with your two contradictory statements, as in you haven't felt the need to upgrade your decade old P&S until now, but feel that you will outgrow a far more complex and capable DSLR in a year or so?
Any one of the cameras you have compared should provide you a lifetime of fantastic images based on how long it took to outgrow a G6! As others have said, waiting is a long wait for the next greatest thing since bread came sliced!
Others may prove me wrong here, but it seems that the incremental improvements between versions are getting smaller, perhaps with the exception of the 7DII.

Good luck choosing.

Cheers, Graham.

Well said!

Coming from a P&S to a full frame (regardless of the model) you will enjoy discovering what a full frame can do.
Forget about having the best ever, that is just a headache: unnecessary debate.
Fun is in shooting and not in having the best gear.
Buy a 5D MK III, a good lens and enjoy!
I moved from Ti1 to 5D III 2 or 3 years ago and discovered heaven.

 

[IgotGASbadDude]

An insider tip is the sigma 35mm Art... but shhhhhhhh

If I were starting over it would be the 5D3 + the 50mm Art, or if I had a bit more $$ the 70-200 L IS II.

Period.

 

[eyeland]

@OP
Have you tried any of the cameras that you're considering?
Are you familiar with SLR cameras at all (be it analog og digital)?
Maybe you should consider trying a second hand rebel or 7D classic to start you off.
Then, you can start investing in lenses and the cheap body will teach you alot (especially about what you need and what you DON*T need)
There really is somewhat of a catch 22 when buying ones first SLR system.
That is, you REALLY don't know what you like/need/use/hate/love until you've tried it.
Like others have proposed, if you start with some second hand gear, you could start growing as a photographer and eventually, you can resell it without much loss.

 

[Abn0021]

Made an account just to reply to this thread.

You are wanting to move from a decade old P&S, to a top of the line FF DSLR? With intentions of getting a 24-70 2.8II, 85mm, and 70-200 soon? Are you serious?

What makes you think you are ready for this system? It's obvious you have no idea what your needs are.

At what point was a P&S not enough, and in the matter of moments, a 5dmkIV is what you NEED? You are biting off more than you need.

Grab a t3i and kit lens and start shooting already.

 

[Marsu42]

What makes you think you are ready for this system? It's obvious you have no idea what your needs are.

... on the other hand, if he's got the budget why not go for it? It's not like he couldn't sell the stuff on if he finds it too difficult to handle or to heavy to carry around. Even expensive usable cameras have a "P" for "professional" mode. Getting a nice sports car just for fun is worth 15+ 1dx systems.

Imho people enjoying themselves and getting top of the line gear is just fine, if Canon makes a healthy profit there's less reason for them to be would up tight when trickling down features to more affordable cameras.

Concerning "need": Nobody "needs" a 1dx, when used properly a good photog can cover all situations with a Rebel. It's just a matter of convenience and keeper rate in some "machinegun the wildlife" situations.

 

[Mitch.Conner]

Can't photograph without lens

Not true. If you have a thing for taking pictures of more or less pure white/grey corner to corner, no lens is required.

If painters can do this and call it modern art, why not photographers?



To the OP, a few years ago, I was in your position. Right around the time that the d7000 came out for Nikon, the first rumors of the d800 popped up. I waited and waited and finally when it came out, I decided that it didn't have what I was looking for, so I got the Canon 5d3. What other people say about the age of the tech doesn't change one, monumentally important fact:

You have no idea if the Canon 5d4 will be worth the wait to you.

Maybe it will come out and you'll wish you'd have gotten the 5d3, or even a 5d2... or something that isn't a 5d at all.

 

[slclick]

I am very thankful I was born early enough and engaged in photography in the film era so I wouldn't have ever jumped into this market with so many overwhelming choices! I do not mean that in a sarcastic or demeaning way, I am truly honest here. When digital did come about my body purchases were complete level ups. 300D>T2i>7D>5D3.

Each of these moves came as I grew with my system and desired challenges and outcomes my previous bodies didn't allow. They also came at the advent of each next level of technological advancement. I moved with the times. But to come into the DSLR world fresh these days, wielding enough cash to step up to the highest model without a foundation in shooting must be both exciting and daunting.

Buy what you want!

Enjoy, but there's a couple caveats here...unless you have an eye for the craft, the passion and a creative soul-the gear no matter how much you spend won't make your photographs any better without it.

Plus, the better model you purchase, the more convoluted the menus and features, so RTFM!

 

[Besisika]

Made an account just to reply to this thread.

You are wanting to move from a decade old P&S, to a top of the line FF DSLR? With intentions of getting a 24-70 2.8II, 85mm, and 70-200 soon? Are you serious?

What makes you think you are ready for this system? It's obvious you have no idea what your needs are.

At what point was a P&S not enough, and in the matter of moments, a 5dmkIV is what you NEED? You are biting off more than you need.

Grab a t3i and kit lens and start shooting already.

Made an account just to reply to this thread.
Agree, this has been the most fun to read so far. I understand if you couldn't stand. But please stick around, don't go away.

Grab a t3i and kit lens and start shooting already.
Agree again, fun is in shooting.

Are you serious?
Actually, he might be serious.

You just retired, and would have more time.
You just won the lottery.
Your just married a reach guy.
Your kid just got a high-paid job.
Money is no longer an issue - yes I would be serious. That's why he was asking.

 

[7enderbender]

Ugh.

I am new here and have only a Powershot G6 which is a decade old now...

I am about to buy my first FF DSLR and I must admit I am pretty overwhelmed at the whole Nikon vs Canon thing and yet despite many saying to go with Nikon, I really would like to go with Canon but I don't really fancy forking out 2K euros on a camera that is largely considered old tech, despite the fact I would be over the moon to have such a camera.

I remember the same kind of discussions going on before the announcement of the Mark III in various places. Really "old tech"? I frankly don't expect anything coming in a Mark IV that will be that earth-shattering. Unless there is some specific feature that it is an absolute game changer I don't see the need to wait for something that may come months from now - and then turn out to be a disappointment of sorts.

I am still happily on my Mark II and never saw a valid reason to upgrade. I took a Mark III to shoots and couldn't tell the difference in the results. The AF is superior on the Mark III but that to me has not been a reason to shell out the extra money for a Mark III body. And if the Mark II breaks tomorrow I'll go get a Mark III independent of potential release dates for a Mark IV (or whatever Canon is planning to do).

Think of all the pictures you could be taking between now and, say, next Summer. Plus I'd always shell out the extra cash on the lenses first before considering the latest and greatest body.

 

[sanj]

Seriously, soon enough all this talk of "you need f/2.8 to stop motion" is going the way of the dodo.

No, it won't. In times of the original 5d1, you needed f2.8 to stop motion. In times of the 5d2, you needed f2.8 to stop motion. In times of the 5d3., you need f2.8 to stop motion. In times of the 5d4, you will need f2.8 to stop motion. Get the picture?

Wait, there is a MASSIVE difference in image quality between the 5DII and 5DII?! Since when?

Who said anything about massive? But it's significant: The 5d2's images respond not as well to denoising, and the noise pattern is visually more disturbing. Then there's a slight increase in snr, and some less banding (while not at 6d or 1dx level).

But if used properly, this won't matter as you can create visually stunning images with the ff 5d2 - there's no real need for the 5d3 features if you shoot the 5d2 with the purpose in mind it was designed for.

If the subject moves relatively fast you need 1/250 shutter. If it movies fast you need 1/1000 and if it moves relatively really fast 1/4000. If you notice f stop is not mentioned here. Get the picture?

So yes, as cameras become noise free at high ISO, f2.8 will not really be required to stop motion unless light drops considerably.

 

[Marsu42]

If the subject moves relatively fast you need 1/250 shutter. If it movies fast you need 1/1000 and if it moves relatively really fast 1/4000. If you notice f stop is not mentioned here. Get the picture?

No, I don't - that's because I shoot motion a lot. At first glance and to the layman, it might seem like the speed of motion is tied to the shutter speed, like fast, faster, fastest, totally fast.

But if you gain more experience, you'll realize even with only "fast" the pixel sharpness depends a lot on the shutter speed, so the tradeoff you need to make is iso value vs. pixel peeping. And of course it's about the speed of the object as projected on the sensor, so shooting a race car on the horizon doesn't need as fast shutter speed as shooting a turtle on macro distance.

That's why giving any absolute number (either f-stop or shutter speed) for a certain type of motion is a fallacy, it's about tradeoffs and the choice of max view/print size. Proper use of your gear depends on you understanding these connections. However, where would f2.8 lenses and 1/8000 camera sales be if everybody did :-o ?

 

[LewisShermer]

Wait, there is a MASSIVE difference in image quality between the 5DII and 5DIII?! Since when??

Yes the 5DIII has improvements across all features (mostly the focusing system), but I don't know if image quality is really one that is massively changed. Used right, the 5DII has fantastic image quality.

The difference is absolutely HUUUUUUGE, it's crazy. I used to shoot weddings (just friends and relatives at first) on a 60D which had great image quality, I made a bit of money so bought a 7D for the bigger view in the eyepiece... unfortunately the image quality wasn't as good so I just used it as a back up to the 60D in the end. I then made enough to buy the 5Diii and a few quality lenses but it messed with my head using the same lenses on both a full frame and a crop so I bought a 5Dii as my back up... I went in blind and just used it as I would the 5Diii (a mistake on my part) and the images were an absolute wreck compared to the 5Diii. I guess it could be just like preferring Kodak film to Fuji though. VC to EC... those old choices we had to make back in the day...

I sold the 5Dii straight away and re-bought the 60D & I never want to look at a 7D again...

 

[Canon1]

Wait, there is a MASSIVE difference in image quality between the 5DII and 5DIII?! Since when??

Yes the 5DIII has improvements across all features (mostly the focusing system), but I don't know if image quality is really one that is massively changed. Used right, the 5DII has fantastic image quality.

The difference is absolutely HUUUUUUGE, it's crazy. I used to shoot weddings (just friends and relatives at first) on a 60D which had great image quality, I made a bit of money so bought a 7D for the bigger view in the eyepiece... unfortunately the image quality wasn't as good so I just used it as a back up to the 60D in the end. I then made enough to buy the 5Diii and a few quality lenses but it messed with my head using the same lenses on both a full frame and a crop so I bought a 5Dii as my back up... I went in blind and just used it as I would the 5Diii (a mistake on my part) and the images were an absolute wreck compared to the 5Diii. I guess it could be just like preferring Kodak film to Fuji though. VC to EC... those old choices we had to make back in the day...

I sold the 5Dii straight away and re-bought the 60D & I never want to look at a 7D again...

I agree. White the 5D2 can produce excellent images, the 5D3 does have a huge IQ improvement. Couple this improvement in IQ (cleaner/sharper looking pixels, better ability to pull shadows, MUCH lower color noise at high ISO, better luminance noise at higher ISO) with a far superior AF system and your keeper rate is much much higher.