Incapable of posting to the adorama thread money still not returned

[Loswr]

Your very basic take-away from this should be nothing other than "Don't use wire transfers."

Agreed - it does seem like an odd way to buy something, especially domestically. Still, I'm sure the OP has his reasons, didn't want to use a credit card, etc.

I've received wire transfers a few times, as disbursements of stock/option sales - I figure that Morgan Stanley knows how to send one properly). I did have to wire money once, to pay in advance for lodging in a tiny place on the northern tip of Zanzibar that didn't take credit cards. I will say that a comment in the other thread about banks not knowing how to handle an outbound wire was my experience - the first three BofA bank employees I dealt with didn't have a clue how to set it up, fortunately there was a real, old-school (and chronologically old, too) bona fide banker there who knew how to process it. Sadly, the gentleman disappeared at the next round of branch closures - sadly typical to pension off the experienced workers and keep the ones at the low end of the pay scale.

The thread was locked with the three final posts being that from Helen Oster. What does that imply? How many other threads are locked on this site?

Lots of them. Usually because they're going nowhere.

You say you've called Adorama 20-30 times and your bank 5 times. I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Your bank sent the wire. You are their client. Your bank can trace the money trail. Wire transfers can be recalled. Yet you're spending the majority of your time complaining about and to Adorama, who arguably has the least power to act on your complaints.

1. People should know what policies and practices the companies they do business with have. If they don't like the policies and practices they should find another business.

2. Posting here is the only way I get any traction with the company. Otherwise I am just some jerk who they can ignore.

Fine, but the transaction wasn't directly between you and Adorama, was it? But you aren't naming your bank or even complaining about them...why not? Wrong tree, as I stated.

You can go ahead and continue blaming Adorama, despite the fact that they're not at fault here. Know what? Now that you have your money back, if you try and wire it to B&H and your bank again fails to execute the transaction properly, they'll probably refuse it, too, and your money will disappear for a while again. Then you can start another complaint thread, and maybe Henry will show up to try and help, and you still won't realize where the real problem lies. But good luck...enjoy your new gear, if you can find someone to take your money... :

 

[natureshots]

Your very basic take-away from this should be nothing other than "Don't use wire transfers."

Agreed - it does seem like an odd way to buy something, especially domestically. Still, I'm sure the OP has his reasons, didn't want to use a credit card, etc.

I've received wire transfers a few times, as disbursements of stock/option sales - I figure that Morgan Stanley knows how to send one properly). I did have to wire money once, to pay in advance for lodging in a tiny place on the northern tip of Zanzibar that didn't take credit cards. I will say that a comment in the other thread about banks not knowing how to handle an outbound wire was my experience - the first three BofA bank employees I dealt with didn't have a clue how to set it up, fortunately there was a real, old-school (and chronologically old, too) bona fide banker there who knew how to process it. Sadly, the gentleman disappeared at the next round of branch closures - sadly typical to pension off the experienced workers and keep the ones at the low end of the pay scale.

The thread was locked with the three final posts being that from Helen Oster. What does that imply? How many other threads are locked on this site?

Lots of them. Usually because they're going nowhere.

You say you've called Adorama 20-30 times and your bank 5 times. I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Your bank sent the wire. You are their client. Your bank can trace the money trail. Wire transfers can be recalled. Yet you're spending the majority of your time complaining about and to Adorama, who arguably has the least power to act on your complaints.

1. People should know what policies and practices the companies they do business with have. If they don't like the policies and practices they should find another business.

2. Posting here is the only way I get any traction with the company. Otherwise I am just some jerk who they can ignore.

Fine, but the transaction wasn't directly between you and Adorama, was it? But you aren't naming your bank or even complaining about them...why not? Wrong tree, as I stated.

You can go ahead and continue blaming Adorama, despite the fact that they're not at fault here. Know what? Now that you have your money back, if you try and wire it to B&H and your bank again fails to execute the transaction properly, they'll probably refuse it, too, and your money will disappear for a while again. Then you can start another complaint thread, and maybe Henry will show up to try and help, and you still won't realize where the real problem lies. But good luck...enjoy your new gear, if you can find someone to take your money... :

After calling my bank I confirmed that I was lied to by Adorama. The money was not refused by them as I was led to believe. They took the money and wired it back days later after I was calling and complaining constantly. Who knows how that would have been handled if I was not on their case. It was a problem with Adorama's account team lying and then refusing to pick up phone calls because they are making mistakes. It was exactly what I initially suspected was going on. It does not take that long for money to be returned to a bank one state away. When they refuse to document their actions its because they are lying and trying to cover it up. My bank may or may not have forgot to put an address but again, I have no documentation and they have thoroughly proved that I cannot take their word. My bank has been helpful, forthright and honest as far as I can tell. I was indeed barking up the right tree by placing blame on Adorama. My bank has earned my trust after years of banking with them. Adorama has proven their dishonesty and ineptitude.

 

[AAPhotog]

Your very basic take-away from this should be nothing other than "Don't use wire transfers."

Agreed - it does seem like an odd way to buy something, especially domestically. Still, I'm sure the OP has his reasons, didn't want to use a credit card, etc.

I've received wire transfers a few times, as disbursements of stock/option sales - I figure that Morgan Stanley knows how to send one properly). I did have to wire money once, to pay in advance for lodging in a tiny place on the northern tip of Zanzibar that didn't take credit cards. I will say that a comment in the other thread about banks not knowing how to handle an outbound wire was my experience - the first three BofA bank employees I dealt with didn't have a clue how to set it up, fortunately there was a real, old-school (and chronologically old, too) bona fide banker there who knew how to process it. Sadly, the gentleman disappeared at the next round of branch closures - sadly typical to pension off the experienced workers and keep the ones at the low end of the pay scale.

The thread was locked with the three final posts being that from Helen Oster. What does that imply? How many other threads are locked on this site?

Lots of them. Usually because they're going nowhere.

You say you've called Adorama 20-30 times and your bank 5 times. I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Your bank sent the wire. You are their client. Your bank can trace the money trail. Wire transfers can be recalled. Yet you're spending the majority of your time complaining about and to Adorama, who arguably has the least power to act on your complaints.

1. People should know what policies and practices the companies they do business with have. If they don't like the policies and practices they should find another business.

2. Posting here is the only way I get any traction with the company. Otherwise I am just some jerk who they can ignore.

Fine, but the transaction wasn't directly between you and Adorama, was it? But you aren't naming your bank or even complaining about them...why not? Wrong tree, as I stated.

You can go ahead and continue blaming Adorama, despite the fact that they're not at fault here. Know what? Now that you have your money back, if you try and wire it to B&H and your bank again fails to execute the transaction properly, they'll probably refuse it, too, and your money will disappear for a while again. Then you can start another complaint thread, and maybe Henry will show up to try and help, and you still won't realize where the real problem lies. But good luck...enjoy your new gear, if you can find someone to take your money... :

After calling my bank I confirmed that I was lied to by Adorama. The money was not refused by them as I was led to believe. They took the money and wired it back days later after I was calling and complaining constantly. Who knows how that would have been handled if I was not on their case. It was a problem with Adorama's account team lying and then refusing to pick up phone calls because they are making mistakes. It was exactly what I initially suspected was going on. It does not take that long for money to be returned to a bank one state away. When they refuse to document their actions its because they are lying and trying to cover it up. My bank may or may not have forgot to put an address but again, I have no documentation and they have thoroughly proved that I cannot take their word. My bank has been helpful, forthright and honest as far as I can tell. I was indeed barking up the right tree by placing blame on Adorama. My bank has earned my trust after years of banking with them. Adorama has proven their dishonesty and ineptitude.

A bank SURELY wouldn't lie as to brush their mistake off on someone else... now would they
lease note sarcasm:

 

[serendipidy]

My interpretation...

Wire transfer goes into Adorama account holding area. Later, a human being looks at it and for whatever reason (suspicious due to no address...or maybe they just hate money or don't like customers from your state) decides to not accept to deposit it, maybe even after input from a supervisor (ie refuses it). Then, that human being or even another person, starts the process to wire it back to your bank. This maybe takes a day or 2 or 3. When you call (angry worried upset etc), you talk to someone who doesn't have all the correct facts or doesn't explain it well to you.

Perhaps not the greatest customer service to you since they certainly didn't have answers that made you comfortable or happy. Sometimes stating something that is not correct is not lying (I see this all the time and it is usually due to ignorance).

Being one state away, I might have gotten a cashiers check and taken a one day trip to NYC.

 

[docholliday]

Your very basic take-away from this should be nothing other than "Don't use wire transfers."

Agreed - it does seem like an odd way to buy something, especially domestically. Still, I'm sure the OP has his reasons, didn't want to use a credit card, etc.

I've received wire transfers a few times, as disbursements of stock/option sales - I figure that Morgan Stanley knows how to send one properly). I did have to wire money once, to pay in advance for lodging in a tiny place on the northern tip of Zanzibar that didn't take credit cards. I will say that a comment in the other thread about banks not knowing how to handle an outbound wire was my experience - the first three BofA bank employees I dealt with didn't have a clue how to set it up, fortunately there was a real, old-school (and chronologically old, too) bona fide banker there who knew how to process it. Sadly, the gentleman disappeared at the next round of branch closures - sadly typical to pension off the experienced workers and keep the ones at the low end of the pay scale.

The thread was locked with the three final posts being that from Helen Oster. What does that imply? How many other threads are locked on this site?

Lots of them. Usually because they're going nowhere.

You say you've called Adorama 20-30 times and your bank 5 times. I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Your bank sent the wire. You are their client. Your bank can trace the money trail. Wire transfers can be recalled. Yet you're spending the majority of your time complaining about and to Adorama, who arguably has the least power to act on your complaints.

1. People should know what policies and practices the companies they do business with have. If they don't like the policies and practices they should find another business.

2. Posting here is the only way I get any traction with the company. Otherwise I am just some jerk who they can ignore.

Fine, but the transaction wasn't directly between you and Adorama, was it? But you aren't naming your bank or even complaining about them...why not? Wrong tree, as I stated.

You can go ahead and continue blaming Adorama, despite the fact that they're not at fault here. Know what? Now that you have your money back, if you try and wire it to B&H and your bank again fails to execute the transaction properly, they'll probably refuse it, too, and your money will disappear for a while again. Then you can start another complaint thread, and maybe Henry will show up to try and help, and you still won't realize where the real problem lies. But good luck...enjoy your new gear, if you can find someone to take your money... :

After calling my bank I confirmed that I was lied to by Adorama. The money was not refused by them as I was led to believe. They took the money and wired it back days later after I was calling and complaining constantly. Who knows how that would have been handled if I was not on their case. It was a problem with Adorama's account team lying and then refusing to pick up phone calls because they are making mistakes. It was exactly what I initially suspected was going on. It does not take that long for money to be returned to a bank one state away. When they refuse to document their actions its because they are lying and trying to cover it up. My bank may or may not have forgot to put an address but again, I have no documentation and they have thoroughly proved that I cannot take their word. My bank has been helpful, forthright and honest as far as I can tell. I was indeed barking up the right tree by placing blame on Adorama. My bank has earned my trust after years of banking with them. Adorama has proven their dishonesty and ineptitude.

If the money was that important and I was only one state away, I would have already driven over there to complain in person and refuse to leave until it was resolved to my satisfaction. Even if I had to go to *their* bank with them to verify that the necessary paperwork was taken care of in front of me. I've done crazier, driving half way across the country to chase down money. I guess the seller didn't expect me to come knocking on their door and that I would wait patiently...

As adamant as you are about Adorama being the problems, you should have taken the trip, and made them reimburse you for it. Instead of rehashing the same cry here over and over, it would have been time better spent. I've done a lot of wire transfers, and they take time, as many have to go through the Fed to clear. For the amount you mention, it usually takes 3-4 days to clear completely and be liquid. I've never had one clear faster than 36 hours.

BTW, are you familiar with how a wire transfer works? When you transfer, the recipient is only notified of the intent to transfer - your bank insures the money is there. A while later (usually in a batch done every so often), your bank will transfer the funds via the Fed to the other bank. In your case, when the money comes back, your bank won't give you access (or even show it on your account) until the Fed clears the money into their account. Wires take time - be patient. Your bank may not even know the transfer is in until their system processes the inbound batch from the Fed. Instead of blaming Adorama, B&H or whoever else, blame the banking process. It's how slow money moves in reality. And, the larger the amount, the slower it moves.

 

[unfocused]

My interpretation...

Wire transfer goes into Adorama account holding area. Later, a human being looks at it and for whatever reason (suspicious due to no address...or maybe they just hate money or don't like customers from your state) decides to not accept to deposit it, maybe even after input from a supervisor (ie refuses it). Then, that human being or even another person, starts the process to wire it back to your bank. This maybe takes a day or 2 or 3. When you call (angry worried upset etc), you talk to someone who doesn't have all the correct facts or doesn't explain it well to you.

Perhaps not the greatest customer service to you since they certainly didn't have answers that made you comfortable or happy. Sometimes stating something that is not correct is not lying (I see this all the time and it is usually due to ignorance).

Being one state away, I might have gotten a cashiers check and taken a one day trip to NYC.

I think this is a pretty good explanation.

Let's face it. As long as human beings are involved, there will be mistakes. And, mistakes tend to multiply along the way. It's unfortunate that this happened. But it did. Based on the many comments on this thread and the experiences of many, many others, it is clear this was the exception and not the rule.

It's no fun being that exception. And, if it happened to me, I'd probably take my business elsewhere as well. But, honestly, there doesn't appear to be any great lesson that others can take away from this. Stuff happens. Life isn't fair. (If it were, I'd have $27,000 to spend on camera equipment too.)

 

[Don Haines]

Now try crossing international borders.....

I've bought stuff (at work) where we had to send money from Canada to a company in the US.... and it took three weeks to clear through the banks.

 

[tpatana]

My interpretation...

Wire transfer goes into Adorama account holding area. Later, a human being looks at it and for whatever reason (suspicious due to no address...or maybe they just hate money or don't like customers from your state) decides to not accept to deposit it, maybe even after input from a supervisor (ie refuses it). Then, that human being or even another person, starts the process to wire it back to your bank. This maybe takes a day or 2 or 3. When you call (angry worried upset etc), you talk to someone who doesn't have all the correct facts or doesn't explain it well to you.

Perhaps not the greatest customer service to you since they certainly didn't have answers that made you comfortable or happy. Sometimes stating something that is not correct is not lying (I see this all the time and it is usually due to ignorance).

Being one state away, I might have gotten a cashiers check and taken a one day trip to NYC.

+1

I wouldn't personally trust any bank to wire 20k+. I'd much rather go withdraw the money in non-sequential un-marked $20 bills, and go shop personally at Adorama. Think how many people would post your picture at various places as you open the brief case at the cashier and hand over sh**load of money. Your 15 minutes of fame.

 

[Loswr]

BTW, are you familiar with how a wire transfer works?

Since the OP seems to think being 'one state away' would make a difference in the speed of a domestic wire transfer, I'd say no. Wire. Think about it. Maybe reading up on the Pony Express vs. the Telegraph would help. Hint: the latter uses a wire.

 

[bdunbar79]

The site administrator has prevented me from continuing to post on the Adorama thread. My money is still not returned its been a week and a day and they still have not provided proof that they have done a thing with my money. All I get is responses from Helen saying that it will be back... Something is seriously wrong here.

Nobody cares anymore.

 

[comsense]

My bank has been helpful, forthright and honest as far as I can tell. I was indeed barking up the right tree by placing blame on Adorama. My bank has earned my trust after years of banking with them. Adorama has proven their dishonesty and ineptitude.

You are confused between slick smooth-talking vs trust and honesty. Most people including you are stuck in warp of personal bias. The cold fact is:
1) If Adorama sales rep suggested you the wire transfer route, he should have held your finger through entire process by taking charge of situation and communicating better.
2) If things don't go according to plan, throwing tantrum like a baby usually does not help either the person or situation. There are bad apples in all organizations including B&H and Amazon. If you are not satisfied you can politely and firmly escalate the situation to the manager. I have got around a lot of incompetence this way. Something was definitely wrong in the way you were talking to them. And if your posts here are any indication, we have the answer. You would have got your toys faster if you had kept your cool and patience to resolve the issue with Adorama and your Bank. In my experience both Adorama and B&H are almost identical and I buy all my optics from them.

Finally, never trust the Bank. The people who work at retail branches are really not sharp but they are taught to speak well. Because they know that slick talking is important to get trust of suckers like you!!!

 

[tiger82]

Not all wire transfers are electronic; some banks will cut a check which necessitates a mailing delay and a hold to ensure funds availability. Fraud is sometimes perpetuated on merchants by having them electronically refund "wire transfers" before the funds have cleared. I would be cautious if I were the merchant.

 

[serendipidy]

My interpretation...

Wire transfer goes into Adorama account holding area. Later, a human being looks at it and for whatever reason (suspicious due to no address...or maybe they just hate money or don't like customers from your state) decides to not accept to deposit it, maybe even after input from a supervisor (ie refuses it). Then, that human being or even another person, starts the process to wire it back to your bank. This maybe takes a day or 2 or 3. When you call (angry worried upset etc), you talk to someone who doesn't have all the correct facts or doesn't explain it well to you.

Perhaps not the greatest customer service to you since they certainly didn't have answers that made you comfortable or happy. Sometimes stating something that is not correct is not lying (I see this all the time and it is usually due to ignorance).

Being one state away, I might have gotten a cashiers check and taken a one day trip to NYC.

+1

I wouldn't personally trust any bank to wire 20k+. I'd much rather go withdraw the money in non-sequential un-marked $20 bills, and go shop personally at Adorama. Think how many people would post your picture at various places as you open the brief case at the cashier and hand over sh**load of money. Your 15 minutes of fame.

LOL...I tried that once with a briefcase full of Monopoly money. My fame only lasted 15 seconds till they caught on ;D

edit-$27,000 in $20 would be 1,350 bills; hence the cashier's check for safety and convenience

 

[eml58]

My interpretation...

Wire transfer goes into Adorama account holding area. Later, a human being looks at it and for whatever reason (suspicious due to no address...or maybe they just hate money or don't like customers from your state) decides to not accept to deposit it, maybe even after input from a supervisor (ie refuses it). Then, that human being or even another person, starts the process to wire it back to your bank. This maybe takes a day or 2 or 3. When you call (angry worried upset etc), you talk to someone who doesn't have all the correct facts or doesn't explain it well to you.

Perhaps not the greatest customer service to you since they certainly didn't have answers that made you comfortable or happy. Sometimes stating something that is not correct is not lying (I see this all the time and it is usually due to ignorance).

Being one state away, I might have gotten a cashiers check and taken a one day trip to NYC.

In a nutshell, what do Adorama/Banks have in common, People, they screw up, they cover up.

I'm honestly glad natureshot that you finally got your money Back and I Thank You for Posting the issue here, forewarned is forearmed, and here's a word to the wise.

I run my own Business using something in the order of 150 Million/year (US Dollars) in wire transfers, incoming/outgoing to individuals/Banks & Businesses, anywhere on the Planet that we deal with as long as the wire transfer is authorised before 1100 the Money hits the recipients Account following day, every time, except, you guessed it, The USA, they have a thing called the FED, everything in & out gores through these Guys and simply adds 2 to 3 days to the Transfer either way, other Countries have a similar organisation/Central Bank as well, but the FED is by far, in our experience, the slowest, not to be confused with bad etc, it's the times we live in, fraud/terrorism etc etc.

Once the Transfer is in the Wind, you ALWAYS ask your Bank on every single Wire Transfer for what's known as a "MT103", your Bank/the senders Bank do not/can not make a Transfer with out producing a MT103, The Bank is required to produce it, but if you don't ask/know about out it, they won't, it's simply more work for someone at the Bank, the MT103 is generated within20 minutes of the actual Transfer, so you have an actual time stamp of when YOUR Bank sent the Money, you can also ask your Bank to have the receiving Bank generate a Order of Receipt date stamping when they received the Money. If/When Adorama then re wired the Funds back to your Bank, they would have generated an MT103 which you as the receiver are entitled to have a copy of. The MT103 is proof in a Law Court exactly where the Money went & who received it.

So, now you have your Money back, place your Order at B&H make your wire transfer, and ask your Bank to produce a MT103, if the money goes astray, you at least know exactly who received it, go chase them. And when you finally receive the 1Dx, the big Mega Pixel Camera might be on the Horizon, so think first.

 

[eml58]

Oh, one more thing, doesn't anyone else find it strange that the previous thread regards this issue was locked out ??, immediately after the very helpful Helen from Adorama had her final say on the matter ??

And here we are another 3 pages of comments on the matter but a different Thread.

I understand commercial interests etc, but it's a bit Sad to find that CR will lock out a Thread based on what might be perceived as Bad Press involving a Client or Potential Client. My Safari Browser locks out commercials so I don't see if CR handles Commercial Advertising for Adorama.

Personally i could see nothing wrong with the Ops statements, nor any of the responses, either for or against.

In any case it's a "Good Ending" story with a few life lessons in there.

Banks are fallible
People are fallible
Big Business is fallible
Do a wire Transfer get a MT103
Believe Helen from adorama, just add 24 hours
Be careful what you Post on CR, You could get a warning, or locked out, or taken down
Dont believe it when ANYONE states "The Cheques/Checks in the Mail"

 

[serendipidy]

All's well that ends well

BTW...what's a "Cheque"? ;D

 

[eml58]

All's well that ends well

BTW...what's a "Cheque"? ;D

Yea, it's a quandary, spellcheck for USA, or Spellcheck for the rest of the world, tough decision.

But your right, it ended well, could have ended better, but still ended well.

 

[Admin US West]

Oh, one more thing, doesn't anyone else find it strange that the previous thread regards this issue was locked out ??, immediately after the very helpful Helen from Adorama had her final say on the matter ??

And here we are another 3 pages of comments on the matter but a different Thread.

I understand commercial interests etc, but it's a bit Sad to find that CR will lock out a Thread based on what might be perceived as Bad Press involving a Client or Potential Client. My Safari Browser locks out commercials so I don't see if CR handles Commercial Advertising for Adorama.

Personally i could see nothing wrong with the Ops statements, nor any of the responses, either for or against.

In any case it's a "Good Ending" story with a few life lessons in there.

Banks are fallible
People are fallible
Big Business is fallible
Do a wire Transfer get a MT103
Believe Helen from adorama, just add 24 hours
Be careful what you Post on CR, You could get a warning, or locked out, or taken down
Dont believe it when ANYONE states "The Cheques/Checks in the Mail"

I closed it, because CR is not a proper place to solve your issue. Now you are trying to blame it on CR. If your bank could not solve it for you, get a new bank.

You did not seem to figure that out, even though other members told you to go thru the banking system.

Its unfortunate that you had a problem, and it would have likely happened anywhere. I had a wire transfer hang up for three weeks because a bank mistyped the receivers name. It was horrible getting it fixed, it took two tries. It wasn't even my bank, they sent it typed correctly. It was a lot of money.

I did not complain on a internet forum, but just worked thru the issue with my bank.

Just blame everyone, and your issue will be solved.

 

[eml58]

That's fine, but you quoted the wrong person, I didn't have the issue.

What I hope I did was Post some Positive suggestions for the Op to resolve this sort of issue for the future, one could assume that is why CR exists.

And your last line is Facetious and un called for, The Op wanted Help, I don't personally see too much difference between his Issue, and an issue he may have Posted regards his Camera falling in Half, People on CR would have attempted to provide some form of advice to assist, mostly, or, they would have your own attitude, not my Problem, take it somewhere else.

At no Point in this Thread, or the Previous Thread regarding the same issue did I or to my knowledge anyone else, call CR into disrepute or point blame at CR, in anyway, at all, full stop.

The Question I asked was it was strange to let the Original Thread proceed then shut it down once the Adorama Representative had the last say, a Representative I might add that would seem to have put some serious effort into solving the Ops issue, and possibly was instrumental in the resolution, so without the Op Posting here, it's possible the situation may not have been resolved so satisfactorily, so CR should be taking a Bow for providing the Means for this resolution, not Posting one liners such as "Just blame everyone, and your issue will be solved"

Quite Honestly your attitude & response in this instance disappoints me, but I'll get over it.

 

[Helen Oster]

I closed it, because CR is not a proper place to solve your issue.

You did not seem to figure that out, even though other members told you to go thru the banking system.

Its unfortunate that you had a problem, and it would have likely happened anywhere.

When a wire transfer of over $10,000 is involved, a retailer is not only entitled to reject funds when the source of those funds might be in doubt, but as a reputable business, would be foolish not so to do.

Equally, banks have systems in place to protect themselves against unwittingly being implicated in the transfer of funds, until the source can be verified, as per FinCEN.