Industry News: Nikon Announces Development of AF-S Nikkor 500mm f/5.6E PF ED VR

Brown

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Apr 17, 2018
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AlanF said:
Brown said:
Judging by the year of release, Canon replaced the 400mm f/5.6 with the 400mm f/4 DO didn't they?

The DO 400 f/4 was not a replacement for the 400mm f/5.6: the DO is a much higher price league; and Canon has continued to sell both in parallel.

I know it's not much of a replacement for many of the original buyers of the f/5.6, but the 300mm f/4 was given IS in 1997 while the 400mm f/4 IS DO was introduced in 2001.
The two biggest complaints over the 400mm f/5.6 were its relatively slow aperture and its lack of IS which the 400mm f/4 improved on while keeping a small profile.
Canon retained the f/5.6 in its catalog for the same reason it keeps the 70-200mm f/2.8 non-IS, for those that don't want or need the features of the more expensive IS versions.
 
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Ladislav

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400 DO II may be superb lens and I would love to own one but it simply targets different market segment. That lens costs 7000GBP in UK. That is more than my car. My hobbyist photo gear insurance policy even can't cover any equipment which costs above 5000GBP - I would need to switch to professional one which has completely different pricing, etc.

So yes, if you are professional who are making money with this gear, you can make this investment because it is tool you need. If you are just hobbyist like me, it is too much to pay for a toy. Canon does not have anything to offer to people like me.

Bear in mind that I'm referring to something with 500+ reach and 5.6 max aperture which 400 DO II with 1.4 TC is capable off but 100-400 is not.

I hope Canon will release 7DIII next year and hope they will also offer a new zoom to pair with - 200-500/5.6 L IS for about 3000GBP would be more in my price range.
 
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AlanF

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Ladislav said:
400 DO II may be superb lens and I would love to own one but it simply targets different market segment. That lens costs 7000GBP in UK. That is more than my car. My hobbyist photo gear insurance policy even can't cover any equipment which costs above 5000GBP - I would need to switch to professional one which has completely different pricing, etc.

So yes, if you are professional who are making money with this gear, you can make this investment because it is tool you need. If you are just hobbyist like me, it is too much to pay for a toy. Canon does not have anything to offer to people like me.

Bear in mind that I'm referring to something with 500+ reach and 5.6 max aperture which 400 DO II with 1.4 TC is capable off but 100-400 is not.

I hope Canon will release 7DIII next year and hope they will also offer a new zoom to pair with - 200-500/5.6 L IS for about 3000GBP would be more in my price range.

The 400mm DO II is not a toy - it is a fabulous piece of kit for enthusiasts, some of whom will sacrifice to own it. All of the L super telephoto big white primes are very expensive and the 400mm DO II is far cheaper than the 800/5.6, 600/4, 500/4 and 400/2.8, most of which are owned by hobbyists because they outnumber the professional wild-life photographers.
 
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Ladislav

EOS RP
Feb 13, 2013
333
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AlanF said:
Ladislav said:
400 DO II may be superb lens and I would love to own one but it simply targets different market segment. That lens costs 7000GBP in UK. That is more than my car. My hobbyist photo gear insurance policy even can't cover any equipment which costs above 5000GBP - I would need to switch to professional one which has completely different pricing, etc.

So yes, if you are professional who are making money with this gear, you can make this investment because it is tool you need. If you are just hobbyist like me, it is too much to pay for a toy. Canon does not have anything to offer to people like me.

Bear in mind that I'm referring to something with 500+ reach and 5.6 max aperture which 400 DO II with 1.4 TC is capable off but 100-400 is not.

I hope Canon will release 7DIII next year and hope they will also offer a new zoom to pair with - 200-500/5.6 L IS for about 3000GBP would be more in my price range.

The 400mm DO II is not a toy - it is a fabulous piece of kit for enthusiasts, some of whom will sacrifice to own it. All of the L super telephoto big white primes are very expensive and the 400mm DO II is far cheaper than the 800/5.6, 600/4, 500/4 and 400/2.8, most of which are owned by hobbyists because they outnumber the professional wild-life photographers.

Hi Alan, sorry for me not being clear. I don't mean that 400 DO II is a toy. I mean that for me as an enthusiast it is an equipment I'm buying to satisfy my hobby - as my wife would probably say "to play with" and so I'm referring to that as a toy.

One update, it does not cost 7000 anymore, just checked my favorite retailer and they list it for 6059 and awaiting stock which is significantly better but still too much to be a lens for masses. What I'm asking for, is something more affordable - not something to be f4 and state of the art like DO primes and big whites are. 500 reach with f5.6, L lens quality with IS and reasonable pricing would make me happy. I don't expect it to cost peanuts and I don't expect it to be as good as big whites. I even don't care how well it works with TC.
 
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Chaitanya

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applecider said:
Chaitanya:

Your photo says artic Fox , help me out all I see is arctic rocks, and grass.
Its an Indian fox and title is also Indian Fox(Vulpes bengalensis). For me it's one of the most common carnivore(that we see and in terms of population) on outskirts of my city and I am not sure how long they will keep up with ever expanding human population.
 
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ahsanford

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Aug 16, 2012
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Chaitanya said:
applecider said:
Chaitanya:

Your photo says artic Fox , help me out all I see is arctic rocks, and grass.
Its an Indian fox and title is also Indian Fox(Vulpes bengalensis). For me it's one of the most common carnivore(that we see and in terms of population) on outskirts of my city and I am not sure how long they will keep up with ever expanding human population.

He can't see the fox -- that's what he means.

applecider, click on the Flickr link in the post above and then zoom in. It's tiny, dead center.

- A
 
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Chaitanya

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Jun 27, 2013
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ahsanford said:
Chaitanya said:
applecider said:
Chaitanya:

Your photo says artic Fox , help me out all I see is arctic rocks, and grass.
Its an Indian fox and title is also Indian Fox(Vulpes bengalensis). For me it's one of the most common carnivore(that we see and in terms of population) on outskirts of my city and I am not sure how long they will keep up with ever expanding human population.

He can't see the fox -- that's what he means.

applecider, click on the Flickr link in the post above and then zoom in. It's tiny, dead center.

- A
ah, spotting animals in that habitat is the toughest challenge and I know the pain. it gets worse during dry season(Oct to May). It's a representation of habitat in which these animals live.
 
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AlanF

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privatebydesign said:
AlanF said:
I see at least a 1000 birders a year, and have never come across another 400mm DO II in person although several on this forum have one. I see maybe 2 or 3 300/2.8, very rarely a 400/2.8 quite a few 500/4, very many 100-400mm I and IIs, and a handful of 400/5.6. There are many Sigma 150-600 Cs and a few S and some Tamron. The Nikon D500 + 200-500 combination has become very popular.

My first good lens was 300mm f/2.8 II, which I tended to use with a 2xTC at 600mm, but the AF hardly worked on 7D and was slow and hunted on a 7DII. I bought the 400mm DO II, which works brilliantly on the 5DIV with a 2xTC, albeit with noticieabley weakened AF speed. With a 1.4xTC at 560mm, it is sharper and lighter than the 300mmx2 and with very fast AF. For birding, it is a more useful lens than the 300/2.8 and so I sold mine as I stopped using it.

The 400mm f/4 and 300mm f2.8 lenses are for nature photographers who like hand-held photography while hiking and for birds in flight. The 500 f/4 is a superb lens for those who use tripods or beanbags and sit and wait, although the lighter 300 and 400 are excellent, they are not quite as good.

I'm not a birder but I live in Central Florida sometimes, I have seen half a dozen 400 DO's in one morning session at Gatorland. I agree the D500 and 200-500 is very popular amongst the birding community I see.

Well, I have booked flights for Florida for January and look forward to seeing fellow 400mm DO II owners!

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=35208.msg725022#msg725022
 
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privatebydesign

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Jan 29, 2011
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AlanF said:
privatebydesign said:
AlanF said:
I see at least a 1000 birders a year, and have never come across another 400mm DO II in person although several on this forum have one. I see maybe 2 or 3 300/2.8, very rarely a 400/2.8 quite a few 500/4, very many 100-400mm I and IIs, and a handful of 400/5.6. There are many Sigma 150-600 Cs and a few S and some Tamron. The Nikon D500 + 200-500 combination has become very popular.

My first good lens was 300mm f/2.8 II, which I tended to use with a 2xTC at 600mm, but the AF hardly worked on 7D and was slow and hunted on a 7DII. I bought the 400mm DO II, which works brilliantly on the 5DIV with a 2xTC, albeit with noticieabley weakened AF speed. With a 1.4xTC at 560mm, it is sharper and lighter than the 300mmx2 and with very fast AF. For birding, it is a more useful lens than the 300/2.8 and so I sold mine as I stopped using it.

The 400mm f/4 and 300mm f2.8 lenses are for nature photographers who like hand-held photography while hiking and for birds in flight. The 500 f/4 is a superb lens for those who use tripods or beanbags and sit and wait, although the lighter 300 and 400 are excellent, they are not quite as good.

I'm not a birder but I live in Central Florida sometimes, I have seen half a dozen 400 DO's in one morning session at Gatorland. I agree the D500 and 200-500 is very popular amongst the birding community I see.

Well, I have booked flights for Florida for January and look forward to seeing fellow 400mm DO II owners!

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=35208.msg725022#msg725022

Alan,

As I understand it January is a pretty quiet month as far as birding goes here in Florida, I am sure you will find enough to satisfy somebody as experienced as yourself, but it certainly won't give you many of the standard opportunities people expect of central Florida birding.

On the other hand I live about 10 minutes from Orlando Wetlands and I would welcome your company if you are out this way, I'm sure you could teach me more than a thing or two about birding! :)
 
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Don Haines

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Jun 4, 2012
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privatebydesign said:
AlanF said:
privatebydesign said:
AlanF said:
I see at least a 1000 birders a year, and have never come across another 400mm DO II in person although several on this forum have one. I see maybe 2 or 3 300/2.8, very rarely a 400/2.8 quite a few 500/4, very many 100-400mm I and IIs, and a handful of 400/5.6. There are many Sigma 150-600 Cs and a few S and some Tamron. The Nikon D500 + 200-500 combination has become very popular.

My first good lens was 300mm f/2.8 II, which I tended to use with a 2xTC at 600mm, but the AF hardly worked on 7D and was slow and hunted on a 7DII. I bought the 400mm DO II, which works brilliantly on the 5DIV with a 2xTC, albeit with noticieabley weakened AF speed. With a 1.4xTC at 560mm, it is sharper and lighter than the 300mmx2 and with very fast AF. For birding, it is a more useful lens than the 300/2.8 and so I sold mine as I stopped using it.

The 400mm f/4 and 300mm f2.8 lenses are for nature photographers who like hand-held photography while hiking and for birds in flight. The 500 f/4 is a superb lens for those who use tripods or beanbags and sit and wait, although the lighter 300 and 400 are excellent, they are not quite as good.

I'm not a birder but I live in Central Florida sometimes, I have seen half a dozen 400 DO's in one morning session at Gatorland. I agree the D500 and 200-500 is very popular amongst the birding community I see.

Well, I have booked flights for Florida for January and look forward to seeing fellow 400mm DO II owners!

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=35208.msg725022#msg725022

Alan,

As I understand it January is a pretty quiet month as far as birding goes here in Florida, I am sure you will find enough to satisfy somebody as experienced as yourself, but it certainly won't give you many of the standard opportunities people expect of central Florida birding.

On the other hand I live about 10 minutes from Orlando Wetlands and I would welcome your company if you are out this way, I'm sure you could teach me more than a thing or two about birding! :)

Rather than birding in Florida, come on up to Canada in January....

At that time of the year we have a huge selection of birds, such as chickadeees, snowy owls, blue jays, and.... well..... there has to others...... nothing beats patiently waiting hours for birds at -30C.....
 
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ahsanford

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Don Haines said:
Getting back to topic, if Canon came out with a 500F5.6 I would be very interested.... with this lens and the 200-500, it seems like the place for a budget birder to start is in Nikon land.....

It's amazing how Canon goes from being unassailably the best place for the budding wildlifer to being second best on the back of Nikon just offering 100 more millimeters non-teleconvertered reach.

Makes you wonder why they didn't just do this sooner. Seems a pittance of a scope/cost to pay to change market perception. Consider: to pull the same thing for sports in general it would take a mountain more investment.

- A
 
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Don Haines

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ahsanford said:
Don Haines said:
Getting back to topic, if Canon came out with a 500F5.6 I would be very interested.... with this lens and the 200-500, it seems like the place for a budget birder to start is in Nikon land.....

It's amazing how Canon goes from being unassailably the best place for the budding wildlifer to being second best on the back of Nikon just offering 100 more millimeters non-teleconvertered reach.

Makes you wonder why they didn't just do this sooner. Seems a pittance of a scope/cost to pay to change market perception. Consider: to pull the same thing for sports in general it would take a mountain more investment.

- A

It’s a lot easier with beginners.... now for the high end people, nothing touches a big white!

I still see 400F5.6 lenses in use.... not everyone can justify the expense of 100-400.... but a 500F5.6 DO at a reasonable price gives length and portability.... I am surprised that Canon did not beat them to it....

Also, remember the Tamron 150-600? Nobody believed that there was a market for such a lens at the price it had to be sold at, and now it is One of the best selling lenses for both Tamron and Sigma. There is a market for long affordable zooms and those who can not afford $5000 or more for a lens flock to them. I think the same will be true for a longer, yet affordable, prime.

So....

Come on Canon! Let’s see one from you!
 
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ahsanford

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Don Haines said:
Also, remember the Tamron 150-600? Nobody believed that there was a market for such a lens at the price it had to be sold at, and now it is One of the best selling lenses for both Tamron and Sigma. There is a market for long affordable zooms and those who can not afford $5000 or more for a lens flock to them. I think the same will be true for a longer, yet affordable, prime.

I think it's a no brainer to offer these lenses. Again, with Canon, if you want to shoot...

  • ...longer than 400mm on FF
  • ...with first party Canon AF
  • ...without the limitations of a teleconverter
  • ...with a new lens

Some $9000 has to leave your pocket. It's a comical, astronomical cliff to climb if you want reach. The party-line answer of 'use a teleconverter, go third party / used / refurbished or you might want to clear this with your bank' is hopelessly out of touch, and one imagines Canon knows this.

- A
 
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Don Haines

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Jun 4, 2012
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ahsanford said:
Don Haines said:
Also, remember the Tamron 150-600? Nobody believed that there was a market for such a lens at the price it had to be sold at, and now it is One of the best selling lenses for both Tamron and Sigma. There is a market for long affordable zooms and those who can not afford $5000 or more for a lens flock to them. I think the same will be true for a longer, yet affordable, prime.

I think it's a no brainer to offer these lenses. Again, with Canon, if you want to shoot...

  • ...longer than 400mm on FF
  • ...with first party Canon AF
  • ...without the limitations of a teleconverter
  • ...with a new lens

Some $9000 has to leave your pocket. It's a comical, astronomical cliff to climb if you want reach. The party-line answer of 'use a teleconverter, go third party / used / refurbished or you might want to clear this with your bank' is hopelessly out of touch, and one imagines Canon knows this.

- A
Agreed!

To shoot Canon FF at 400mm you pay (here in Canada) $2050 for a 6D2 body and $1500 for a 400F5.6 lens, that is one of the oldest lenses in the Canon lineup... That's $3550 to get started....

To go to 500mm, you are looking at $2050 for a 6D2 body and $12,150 for a 500F4 lens... You jump from $3550 to $14,200 to get that extra 100mm.... that is quite the jump.....

In Nikon land, to shoot FF at 500mm you pay (here in Canada) $2000 for a D750 body and $1600 for a 200-500F5.6 lens that is a few years old... That's $3600 to get started....

Despite internet claims to the contrary, the people at Canon are not idiots. They have seen the huge sales numbers of the various 150-600 lenses and the Nikon 200-500. They know that there is a market for these lenses and at some point they will react.... the question is, "when?"
 
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Don Haines

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privatebydesign said:
Only if you insist on new. You can get an EF 500 f4.5 for $2,000, or an EF 500 f4 IS for $4,000 and a 1DX for $2,500.

So you can get world class Canon body and glass for under $7,000...

Yes, but the typical person getting into photography buys new, and there is still a huge difference between $2900 US and $7000 US. You are far more likely to survive telling your spouse that you spent $3000 on a new camera than telling them you spent $7000 on a used one... :)


Also, I rather doubt that Canon or Nikon care much about the used market, as their goal is to sell new units....
 
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