Is Pixel-Shift coming to the Canon EOS R5?

[jam05]

Many test were done back when the R5 was first released. Running the camera off AC power in full 8K it could run for hours without issue. Battery door switch defeats. Just tons of things that people did to show that the overheat was indeed caused by a firmware cripple… Canon maintained that the limitations were real and not artificially imposed via firmware. Well, if real physical hardware limitations, then the release of firmware 1.6 could not have magically fixed the R5 overheating issue… Yet it did.

With the release of firmware 1.6 Canon admitted through actions that the assumptions that they had imposed artificial recording limitations on the R5 were in fact true. There is simply no other conclusion that could reasonably be reached.

Pure BS. They are not magically fixed. There are still limitations. You simply get to overide the limitations. It will still overheat. You dont have to read rumor sites. Get yourself a Flir One and measure the temperature yourself. I did. The drive slot gets well over 160 degrees and the back of the camera will overheat as well. No firmware. It gets HOT!! Same as Sony cameras. You just simply get to overide the alarm. If you want to toast your board its now your choice. People talking about firmware dont know what they are talking about. Canon simply gave the users the same overide as the Sony "Auto Temp High" = OFF. With a caveat. "At your own risk"

 

[shadowsports]

R5 overheating:
I believe the overheating or potential for it was real. I don't think Canon would put a fan on my R5 C if they didn't have to. The CPU and thermal pad design on the R5 wasn't the greatest from a heat dissipation standpoint to begin with. That and the amount of heat a CF Express Type B card can generate wasn't a recipe for success. I think Canon approached it conservatively, but with a little cripple hammer sprinkled on top. I skipped the R5 for no other reason than the heat. I wanted a high end MILC body, but wasn't willing to risk $4k on something that I might not be able to turn on (even once). Time passed and this was partially dispelled. Then v1.6.0 was released and as @jam05 pointed out, the risk is now yours.

To date the R5 C is the best camera I've ever owned. Mainly because of my desire to explore video. I hope you guys (with ibis) get pixel shift, but we'll see. If I can't due to lack of ibis, I'm ok with it. The stills side of this camera has been very meaningful for me coming from a small host of DSLRs. The platform itself is outstanding and one which is very hard to beat. I'm ok with my fan and no ibis. IS works for me.

 

[usern4cr]

I've tried pixel shift before. The times when the image stays absolutely the same between the multiple exposures at slightly different times, and there is also absolutely no camera shake whatsoever, and the focus is so sharp that there is no blur between pixel elements are almost never realized in my experience. Therefore "pixel shift" is one feature that I think is great to exist for marketing to sell more cameras, but is absolutely worthless to me. Your mileage may vary, of course, so I respect those who feel differently.

 

[Dragon]

r ma

Either better color resolution or more megapixels. Shifting a full pixel and merging 4 images samples every part of the image with all three bayer filter colors, meaning no color interpolation is needed. Shifting half a pixel and merging 16 images does that and gives you 4x the MP, e.g. if you start with a 50 MP sensor and merge 16 pixel shifted images, you get a 200 MP output image (with no color interpolation).

The 4-shift also eliminates false color and the 16-shift eliminates aliasing pretty much altogether when you start wiith 45 Mpixels. If the processing is in camera and results in some form of raw file, it iwll be awesome. If only a JPEG, then the component images need to be saved in raw to process in DPP into a TIFF so the dynamic range can be preserved. Tedious, but much better than JPEG only.

 

[snappy604]

Pure BS. They are not magically fixed. There are still limitations. You simply get to overide the limitations. It will still overheat. You dont have to read rumor sites. Get yourself a Flir One and measure the temperature yourself. I did. The drive slot gets well over 160 degrees and the back of the camera will overheat as well. No firmware. It gets HOT!! Same as Sony cameras. You just simply get to overide the alarm. If you want to toast your board its now your choice. People talking about firmware dont know what they are talking about. Canon simply gave the users the same overide as the Sony "Auto Temp High" = OFF. With a caveat. "At your own risk"

Bingo.


pre-R5 I was often in the frustrated camp on how Canon was withholding features (was a magic lantern user!) so in a sense agree Canon does withhold features, but I don't think the 8k heating issue was one.


the early tests on extending the 8k recording and heat warning / shutdown time was different than normal operating process which is what Canon has to support/warranty. The original comments even indicated the parameters were different in that they defeated the battery doors and ran it off AC. This changed the behaviour significantly.


The CF Fast cards get silly hot as well as the battery. When the battery door is closed and it weatherproofs the camera means the heat generated by the battery and CF Fast card (which is quite signifcant) gets added to the overall heat (in addition to the circuitry), but it also traps the heat from both and doesnt have any space to radiate it out. Providing direct AC via a forced open battery door removes the heat from generated from the battery and allows better air flow for the rest.


I think Canon didn't expect that kind of longer use from folks nor how fixated they'd be on a hybrid camera doing that. To their credit, they found ways to optimize and smooth the heating issue out to where it became a much lower issue.. but yeah the heat hasn't magically disappeared, just handled better via a bunch of tricks.

Honestly kind of stoked to see yet another firmware update and I hope its correct. Some additional AI features, FPS limiting on electronic shutter and pixel shift (been interested for a long time, but suspect its only useful for some cases) would make me happy. Other neato things that I'd like to see would be ability to park IBIS and just use IS sometimes as well for 3rd party lenses.. I think sometimes they conflict a bit... and fixing the wobble that wide lenses get with IBIS.. this is in video but also notice it a fair bit in fast bursts with electronic shutter. Sadly those may require hardware (faster sensors/processing)

speaking of magic lantern (wish canon had hired the guy) .. seem to recall there was a neat macro feature that I'd like to see that allowed my 7d to micro increment the zoom motor and take images.. basically allowing me not to use a focus rail.. yes had some breathing but allowed for focus stacking.. some tests were decent if I recall. now to charge my E6 batteries to check if my memory was correct and a feature that would be cool to see as well. ... <edit> didn't need to charge my batteries.. the internet doesn't forget, there are articles on it and I was right mostly, it wasn't zooming (as I had a 180mm macro) it was moving the focal point automatically.. you told it where to start and where to finish and how many to do.. useful.

 

[SnowMiku]

Will the R3 also get Pixel Shift? It sounds like a good feature for people who want it.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

I hope some YouTubers are not right in their prediction that in future camera manufacturers might introduce extra fees or even subscriptions for certain features. On the other hand I would like the idea that a camera comes 20% cheaper without video features and people who want those features would pay the extra money to unlock them.

Will the R3 also get Pixel Shift? It sounds like a good feature for people who want it.

Wouldn't Pixel Shift even be easier to do if the pixels are bigger? That would require less precision.

 

[Blorp]

people who want those features would pay the extra money to unlock them.

Yea I don't see that: "Hey could you also do a video of me doing this cool jump? - "Yes just give me five minutes, I need to get my credit card, login online into my Canon account, Pay for that feature, create a WiFi Hotspot to tell my camera about it, a damn Camera Connect can't find it again, let me reset my stored WiFi devices....hey where are you going.."

 

[pzyber]

Riiiiiiiight.
Can you explain to me, how you want to do pixel shift on a sensor, that has no IBIS ?? (R8 !!)

/M

The software guides you how much to move the camera inbetween the shoots then combines them

 

[Skyscraperfan]

Yea I don't see that: "Hey could you also do a video of me doing this cool jump? - "Yes just give me five minutes, I need to get my credit card, login online into my Canon account, Pay for that feature, create a WiFi Hotspot to tell my camera about it, a damn Camera Connect can't find it again, let me reset my stored WiFi devices....hey where are you going.."

I thought more of a one time unlock for a high price instead of $1 for every hour of video you want to take.

 

[Blorp]

I thought more of a one time unlock for a high price instead of $1 for every hour of video you want to take.

Still and odd situation for someone who does not use those feature regularly.

 

[scyrene]

speaking of magic lantern (wish canon had hired the guy) .. seem to recall there was a neat macro feature that I'd like to see that allowed my 7d to micro increment the zoom motor and take images.. basically allowing me not to use a focus rail.. yes had some breathing but allowed for focus stacking.. some tests were decent if I recall. now to charge my E6 batteries to check if my memory was correct and a feature that would be cool to see as well. ... <edit> didn't need to charge my batteries.. the internet doesn't forget, there are articles on it and I was right mostly, it wasn't zooming (as I had a 180mm macro) it was moving the focal point automatically.. you told it where to start and where to finish and how many to do.. useful.

Canon calls this "focus bracketing" and it is included with several of the R system cameras. Newer models will even combine the images into a focus stack (they use the term "depth compositing" for this).

 

[entoman]

I've tried pixel shift before. The times when the image stays absolutely the same between the multiple exposures at slightly different times, and there is also absolutely no camera shake whatsoever, and the focus is so sharp that there is no blur between pixel elements are almost never realized in my experience. Therefore "pixel shift" is one feature that I think is great to exist for marketing to sell more cameras, but is absolutely worthless to me. Your mileage may vary, of course, so I respect those who feel differently.

I agree that for many users the value of pixel-shift is vastly overrated, although it's of value to people who *need* ultra high resolution *and* are using a very sturdy tripod and timer delay to shoot subjects in which there is absolutely zero movement - and that includes movement that isn't normally considered as such e.g. leaves rustling in trees, grass swaying etc.

It also has value for those who shoot architecture, deserts, artworks and several other genres including advertising/product photography. Pixel shift can also be used, as others have noted, to enhance colour resolution.

 

[entoman]

I hope some YouTubers are not right in their prediction that in future camera manufacturers might introduce extra fees or even subscriptions for certain features. On the other hand I would like the idea that a camera comes 20% cheaper without video features and people who want those features would pay the extra money to unlock them.

Major advances usually require faster processors, better sensors and other hardware upgrades. The number of features that can be added or enhanced via firmware is quite limited, so it's unlikely IMO that paid-for firmware upgrades will ever become commonplace.

 

[koenkooi]

I agree that for many users the value of pixel-shift is vastly overrated, although it's of value to people who *need* ultra high resolution *and* are using a very sturdy tripod and timer delay to shoot subjects in which there is absolutely zero movement - and that includes movement that isn't normally considered as such e.g. leaves rustling in trees, grass swaying etc.

It also has value for those who shoot architecture, deserts, artworks and several other genres including advertising/product photography. Pixel shift can also be used, as others have noted, to enhance colour resolution.

As mentioned before, I’d love to see this as an option for the automated focus stacking mode as well.

 

[fr34k]

As mentioned before, I’d love to see this as an option for the automated focus stacking mode as well.

although I'd probably use my computer for most of the stacking in the end. It is rather helpful though to determine if it might work or one should better take another focus bracket right now. I've been able to test it using the R7 and I must say that it is rather a helpful feature, especially for those lazy days as its quality is quite nice anyways. Not quite PC-level, but for a stack that literally takes a couple of seconds to do (instead of several minutes sometimes), it's not only respectable, it's really good.

 

[neuroanatomist]

As mentioned before, I’d love to see this as an option for the automated focus stacking mode as well.

In-camera compositing of a bunch of 180 MP images? Oki-dokie.

 

[entoman]

Another advantage of pixel-shift that is often overlooked is that it's a hell of a sight easier and cheaper to implement a 50MP pixel-shifted sensor than to manufacture a non-shifted 200MP one.

Manufacturers will now be focusing on minimising, as far as possible, the negative aspects of pixel-shift:

They've already made huge strides towards minimising camera movement via OIS and IBIS, and this can be further improved by developing more accurate and responsive stabilisation systems; and by using AI "blur-reducing" technology (such as that found in Topaz Sharpen AI) for in-camera processing.

Subject movement *between pixel-shift frames* can also be greatly reduced, by having much faster burst speeds - Canon's R3 shutter already has 195fps capability.

Faster sensors, global shutter, more powerful processors and bigger buffers will eventually make it possible for fast shutter speeds, ultra-fast burst speeds, AI sharpening tech and rapid in-camera merging to greatly minimise the negative aspects of pixel-shift. All of this is within the foreseeable future.

 

[koenkooi]

In-camera compositing of a bunch of 180 MP images? Oki-dokie.

Since in-camera compositing still is jpeg-only, I’m only interested in the camera doing the pixel shifting and driving the AF. I’ll let helicon focus deal with composing the images.

 

[fr34k]

On the other hand I would like the idea that a camera comes 20% cheaper without video features and people who want those features would pay the extra money to unlock them.

Well, I can on one hand understand that, yet the overall price for the entire package will go up then. There has practically never been an instance where a company lets you rent/upgrade something where it wasn't significantly more expensive in the end.

Major advances usually require faster processors, better sensors and other hardware upgrades. The number of features that can be added or enhanced via firmware is quite limited, so it's unlikely IMO that paid-for firmware upgrades will ever become commonplace.

Some advances (especially quality of life ones) are pure software. One such example is false colour or waveform. AF nowadays is similar as the image is getting read out super fast and the analysis is also done split second. Simply the algorithm (or the NN weights) might change. As recognition NN aren't that big actually (e. g. compared to generative ones), the R5 should be quite capable of handling the newest ones.


With larger bodies like the R3, extension cards might be possible that provide specific codecs or lager neural processors. But both the card and the slot need precious space and cooling.