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If I could get a Mirrorless than can take my 70-200mk.ii with full functionality and ISO perf of my 5diii, I would not miss the Mirror reflex one bit.
We Americans are Dogmatic when it comes to adoption of new technology in General (even if we are at the forefront of innovating sometimes). We are just set in our ways. One day when Canon announces the discontinuation of mirror boxed bodies, how many will jump ship? and what if Nikon followed suit? What then.
The DSLR is dead soon... but not all the functionality it provides.
We Americans are Dogmatic when it comes to adoption of new technology in General (even if we are at the forefront of innovating sometimes). We are just set in our ways. One day when Canon announces the discontinuation of mirror boxed bodies, how many will jump ship? and what if Nikon followed suit? What then.
The DSLR is dead soon... but not all the functionality it provides.
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preppyak said:
Agreed, Amazing perf! you could have said it came from a D800E and we would not have given it a second look. ;D
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I wholly disagree with this.
The discussion is not about the demise of the SLR, but the future of imaging. That's well worth discussing.
I wholly disagree with this.
The discussion is not about the demise of the SLR, but the future of imaging. That's well worth discussing.
Astro said:
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5dmarkii said:
This makes the assumption that the growth in mirrorless is at the expense of DSLR sales though when I believe the latter are infact increasing. Long term I can see mirrorless replacing some or all of the lower end of the market and moving into the "rangefinder" slot at the higher end but right now I think its mostly replacing P&S sales.
At the top of the market though I think the sizes of lens your dealing with will help keep SLR's alive, why go with a smaller mirrorless when you want to balance out a 1 kg 2.8 zoom on the other end?
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Look at two other consumer trends:
Music Quality
Video Quality
There was a time when people sat down and listened to music. Today, people just download compressed music. there are always going to be audiophiles, but they are the minority. I'm one of them, but I know it's not the norm.
Then there is Blu-ray. Where can you rent those today? How big is the Blu-ray section in your local electronics retailer? Again, I've got a movie set-up at home, but I'm the minority. I didn't think people would ever watch movies and video on small screens, but it's happening.
On one side, we have quality...image quality, video quality, sound quality. On the other side, we have convenience, weight, on-demand, cost, etc. I don't know if SLRs will diminish in sales numbers, but for all those that don't think it's even a remote possibility, those people aren't looking outside of their own world.
Music Quality
Video Quality
There was a time when people sat down and listened to music. Today, people just download compressed music. there are always going to be audiophiles, but they are the minority. I'm one of them, but I know it's not the norm.
Then there is Blu-ray. Where can you rent those today? How big is the Blu-ray section in your local electronics retailer? Again, I've got a movie set-up at home, but I'm the minority. I didn't think people would ever watch movies and video on small screens, but it's happening.
On one side, we have quality...image quality, video quality, sound quality. On the other side, we have convenience, weight, on-demand, cost, etc. I don't know if SLRs will diminish in sales numbers, but for all those that don't think it's even a remote possibility, those people aren't looking outside of their own world.
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unfocused said:
When it becomes possible to provide an electronic viewfinder, metering system and AF more cheaply and reliably and to at least the same level of quality as with a reflex mirror, the reflex mirror will become obsolete.
The other challenge which has to be overcome when shooting without a mirror is low shutter latency. You can see this when you shoot in live-view mode that the delay until the exposure is taken is much longer. That delay is unacceptable in a lot of circumstances. I think there is a lot of work that needs to be done to get that delay to the level required to shoot sports.
In short, a mirrorless camera will need to shoot at 12fps, with the viewfinder active between frames, and with negligible shutter lag before the mirror will become obsolete. I don't see that as impossible, I just see it as being a few years away.
Now if camera makers could make a totally electronic shutter at the same time .... that would be sweet!
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KitsVancouver said:
This seems like a bit of a different arguement to me, agenst higher image quality generally rather than SLR's as the preffered basis for that quality.
I'd argue that photography had its "shift to convenience" a decade ago with the digital revolution and what were seeing today is a shift back towards quality.
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This is what I dont get, people say that technology is closing the gap between small sensors and large sensors
everyone that uses this argument as essentially comparing an unspecified future tech sensor with a current larger sensor, the fundamental flaw in this is thinking that the same technological enhancements will really be applied to the larger sensors or in fact even greater technological advances.
the second significant fault in the whole arguement is ergonomics for me the 5D is the ideal form I dont want to shoot all day with anything small or bigger if i can help it for many the perfect size is the 1D or many again maybe the rebel is the perfect fit or perhaps the 1J is just the right size
Small isnt necessarily the best it all reminds me of the mobile phones in zoolander. The minature camera while perhaps convenient for certain things cannot beat well designed and evolved designs of DSLRs the 5Dmk3 IMO is the most comfortable to use camera ever built so far they have really nailed the design and ergonomics with this one
everyone that uses this argument as essentially comparing an unspecified future tech sensor with a current larger sensor, the fundamental flaw in this is thinking that the same technological enhancements will really be applied to the larger sensors or in fact even greater technological advances.
the second significant fault in the whole arguement is ergonomics for me the 5D is the ideal form I dont want to shoot all day with anything small or bigger if i can help it for many the perfect size is the 1D or many again maybe the rebel is the perfect fit or perhaps the 1J is just the right size
Small isnt necessarily the best it all reminds me of the mobile phones in zoolander. The minature camera while perhaps convenient for certain things cannot beat well designed and evolved designs of DSLRs the 5Dmk3 IMO is the most comfortable to use camera ever built so far they have really nailed the design and ergonomics with this one
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JRS said:adhocphotographer said:I think that SLRs, like everything else, will eventually die, being replaced by the next thing... when and how this will happen, only time will tell!I think mirrorless is the first step, and the fact that a lot of the P&S cameras are getting better and better!
Yes, but even if P&S reach SLR in terms of IQ, noise and ISO performance, we will not have the same DOF using small sensors....
we are not talking about cameras with small sensors, but cameras without a mirror/pentaprism...or at least is what i am talking about
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wickidwombat said:
Regardless of the technological advancement of small sensors, they cannot achieve the aesthetics of an image produced on a large sensor. For that reason, for many enthusiast uses and professional use, a large sensor will remain important.
I think there are also many more photography enthusiasts than there were 20 years ago. The digital revolution has democratised quality as far as photography is concerned.
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Bennymiata
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The old 35mm rangefinder cameras didn't oust SLR's back in the film days, even thought their lenses may have been just as good, and the quality of the film was obviously identical, and neither will mirrorless oust the DSLR.
SLR's have been around for a long, long time and many see DSLR's as something to aspire to, as well as those people that want good images.
I got my first SLR in 1966, and it was about 10 years old then!
While today's mirrorless cameras will improve, and their sales should also, DSLR's will also improve and will still have a large share of the camera market for decades to come.
Mirrorless cameras may be selling well in Japan and Taiwan, but they tend to go with fads far more than most Western coultures, and they love miniaturisation far more than we do.
Let's see how their sales are in a few more years, as I believe even they will realise that there just isn't anything as good as a DSLR in the long run.
SLR's have been around for a long, long time and many see DSLR's as something to aspire to, as well as those people that want good images.
I got my first SLR in 1966, and it was about 10 years old then!
While today's mirrorless cameras will improve, and their sales should also, DSLR's will also improve and will still have a large share of the camera market for decades to come.
Mirrorless cameras may be selling well in Japan and Taiwan, but they tend to go with fads far more than most Western coultures, and they love miniaturisation far more than we do.
Let's see how their sales are in a few more years, as I believe even they will realise that there just isn't anything as good as a DSLR in the long run.
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gmrza said:
Of course! All digital cameras will be free of mechanical crap, and all electronic. Only that way will we finally be able to really reap all fruits of digital photography and finally overcome the remaining remnants of early days analogue-mechanical-chemical photography.
I see this very near ... electronic shutters are possible today ... at virtually any framerate ... as proven in any videocam at any price point and any quality level from smartphione to broadcast TV cam to higheswt end cine cam.
After that the only remaining burden from early day photography holding us back will be optical systems made of ground glass blocks. Those need to go away as well. And they will. On the low end it will be gel-filled transparent bags for shape-shiftable lenses [as used today in mobile phones already], in the long run it will be some quantum mechanics device bending and shaping photon flows in any which way. Virtuelly unlimited Tilt, Shift and lightfield capture will be integral parts of the future photography game.
No idea, how long that will take ... for sure it still is a couple of years out ... but it will come. Maybe Canon and all the other industry players acting as "maintainers of status quo" will have to go out of existence first, so that new companies such as Lytro helped on by dominant consumer electronics players like Apple will pull it of.
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