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Re: All Around lenses
All my lenses are ROUND!! ;D I've not had a square or triangle shaped one yet? ;D
All my lenses are ROUND!! ;D I've not had a square or triangle shaped one yet? ;D
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AcinonyxJG
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Re: All Around lenses
I see your point and it is very good, but as I'm not really sure what kind of situations I will be in during the trip, I don't really want to have one lens, and then regret not renting one that could have given me the chance to get that photo I need the other lens for. I guess I could rent the lenses (only 2 or 3) for a bit of extra time, and get to use them for a few days before the trip, how does that sound?
Cosk said:
I see your point and it is very good, but as I'm not really sure what kind of situations I will be in during the trip, I don't really want to have one lens, and then regret not renting one that could have given me the chance to get that photo I need the other lens for. I guess I could rent the lenses (only 2 or 3) for a bit of extra time, and get to use them for a few days before the trip, how does that sound?
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AcinonyxJG
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Re: All Around lenses
I have just had a look at the 35mm lenses canon offers, the L lens is very expensive, but it is f/1.4, so would be very good, the non L is f/2, and a lot cheaper, obviously it won't be as good regarding IQ and other aspects, but would the extra price be worth it, I probably won't be able to buy any lenses, but will hire, and the 35mm L would be expensive to hire aswell. Thanks for recommeding these lenses they look great, and would be better on a crop sensor camera.
scrappydog said:
I have just had a look at the 35mm lenses canon offers, the L lens is very expensive, but it is f/1.4, so would be very good, the non L is f/2, and a lot cheaper, obviously it won't be as good regarding IQ and other aspects, but would the extra price be worth it, I probably won't be able to buy any lenses, but will hire, and the 35mm L would be expensive to hire aswell. Thanks for recommeding these lenses they look great, and would be better on a crop sensor camera.
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Re: All Around lenses
I just wanted to back up Scrappy's point and reiterate mine from earlier. When I first started I made the mistake of buying lenses and kit I thought I needed but then found I didn't. You've got a few months before your trip, would strongly recommend you getting to know one lens well (I'd say either the 18-55 kit or the 15-85), and taking it from there. I totally get your point about wanting to be prepared for the trip, however you'd be surprised how effective one lens (even just a prime - I was in New York recently with my fiancee and used a 35mm 95% of the time) can be, and it forces you to think about composition too. I've also been in situations where I've missed shots and opportunities whilst faffing with lens choices! Getting pleasing results from your first DSLR (with any lens) is not trivial either, so there will be a learning curve from the outset.
If you are dead set on a lens/focal length then go ahead - but if you aren't sure then save the cash for now and pull the trigger later
All the best.
AcinonyxJG said:
I just wanted to back up Scrappy's point and reiterate mine from earlier. When I first started I made the mistake of buying lenses and kit I thought I needed but then found I didn't. You've got a few months before your trip, would strongly recommend you getting to know one lens well (I'd say either the 18-55 kit or the 15-85), and taking it from there. I totally get your point about wanting to be prepared for the trip, however you'd be surprised how effective one lens (even just a prime - I was in New York recently with my fiancee and used a 35mm 95% of the time) can be, and it forces you to think about composition too. I've also been in situations where I've missed shots and opportunities whilst faffing with lens choices! Getting pleasing results from your first DSLR (with any lens) is not trivial either, so there will be a learning curve from the outset.
If you are dead set on a lens/focal length then go ahead - but if you aren't sure then save the cash for now and pull the trigger later
All the best.
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Re: All Around lenses
I don't know. This whole thread seems to be kind of out there: a 14 year old buying his first DSLR along with a pile of higher priced lenses. The learning curve with a DSLR is pretty steep so I like the recommendation of keeping it simple and spending the time on learning how to actually use the camera. I love the recommendation of using either just a 35mm or a 50mm to master the craft. Any shots missed are more likely that you did not see them and not because you had the wrong lens!
Freshprince08 said:AcinonyxJG said:
I just wanted to back up Scrappy's point and reiterate mine from earlier. When I first started I made the mistake of buying lenses and kit I thought I needed but then found I didn't. You've got a few months before your trip, would strongly recommend you getting to know one lens well (I'd say either the 18-55 kit or the 15-85), and taking it from there. I totally get your point about wanting to be prepared for the trip, however you'd be surprised how effective one lens (even just a prime - I was in New York recently with my fiancee and used a 35mm 95% of the time) can be, and it forces you to think about composition too. I've also been in situations where I've missed shots and opportunities whilst faffing with lens choices! Getting pleasing results from your first DSLR (with any lens) is not trivial either, so there will be a learning curve from the outset.
If you are dead set on a lens/focal length then go ahead - but if you aren't sure then save the cash for now and pull the trigger later
All the best.
I don't know. This whole thread seems to be kind of out there: a 14 year old buying his first DSLR along with a pile of higher priced lenses. The learning curve with a DSLR is pretty steep so I like the recommendation of keeping it simple and spending the time on learning how to actually use the camera. I love the recommendation of using either just a 35mm or a 50mm to master the craft. Any shots missed are more likely that you did not see them and not because you had the wrong lens!
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Re: All Around lenses
If you want wide, the Tokina 11-16 is very nice. Keep in mind that the built-in flash will be useless with this lens due to lens shadow... and if you use a flash, you may need two of them.
I also like the Canon 16-35 L II on either a crop or full frame. The 17-55 2.8 IS is also nice, but only useful on EF-S cameras.
The 16-35 f2.8 stays on my camera most of the time.
The 35 f1.4 can get pictures without a flash that a 2.8 lens can't get. This is close to a 50mm view on a full frame camera on your 60D.
A 24mm lens will essentially look like a 38mm on a full frame. Useful for indoor stuff.
On the 60D, a 50mm will behave like an 80. Might be too much for indoor work.
I find a 70-200 too much for my indoor situations, especially on a crop camera.
I like wide shots, and sometimes you just can't step back some more. I've tried stitching, and it hasn't worked out very well for me yet.
Wide angle: Tokina 11-16.
Indoor stuff, maybe no flash, you will need something faster than 2.8. The prime lenses are much lighter than the 17-55 2.8.
I'd rent a 24 and 35 now and see which one you like... but you can always crop stuff out of a picture. Much harder to crop stuff into a picture.
Otherwise, I'd recommend the 17-55 f2.8 is.
$.02
AcinonyxJG said:
If you want wide, the Tokina 11-16 is very nice. Keep in mind that the built-in flash will be useless with this lens due to lens shadow... and if you use a flash, you may need two of them.
I also like the Canon 16-35 L II on either a crop or full frame. The 17-55 2.8 IS is also nice, but only useful on EF-S cameras.
The 16-35 f2.8 stays on my camera most of the time.
The 35 f1.4 can get pictures without a flash that a 2.8 lens can't get. This is close to a 50mm view on a full frame camera on your 60D.
A 24mm lens will essentially look like a 38mm on a full frame. Useful for indoor stuff.
On the 60D, a 50mm will behave like an 80. Might be too much for indoor work.
I find a 70-200 too much for my indoor situations, especially on a crop camera.
I like wide shots, and sometimes you just can't step back some more. I've tried stitching, and it hasn't worked out very well for me yet.
Wide angle: Tokina 11-16.
Indoor stuff, maybe no flash, you will need something faster than 2.8. The prime lenses are much lighter than the 17-55 2.8.
I'd rent a 24 and 35 now and see which one you like... but you can always crop stuff out of a picture. Much harder to crop stuff into a picture.
Otherwise, I'd recommend the 17-55 f2.8 is.
$.02
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Re: All Around lenses
Having read all the posts so far, there is much great advice already offered.
My perspective mirrors that given by some others already - if this is a first DSLR (regardless of age, though probably particularly for a 14 year old) - I'd say that most enjoyment and the best 'learning' could be obtained with 1 lens. My suggestion is to get the Canon 60D with the 15-85mm lens - for very high image quality, wide angle (24mm equivalent) - and still capable of great portraits (in decent light).
Buy a 50mm f1.8 or f1.4 only if really really necessary. I might even suggest taking a tripod instead of more lenses, but that depends on the exact itinerary and travel plans. The convenience of 'just' having a camera with 1 lens attached can often not be underestimated for travel in many situations (and yes, I travel a lot).
Buy a lens hood to protect against flare / snow, etc (you can get a good quality one for about $5 to $10 - including shipping! - from Hong Kong / China). It also offers a bit more dust protection - ie prevents some of the dust from settling on the front element.
The suggestion given by one person to buy a Canon 5DmkII with the 24-105 isn't bad, however as the OP stated that he is on a budget, I would still be inclined to suggest the Canon 60D with 15-85mm instead, which is still very suitable for an Iceland trip. The 15-85mm performs similarly on a APS-C to the 24-105 on a FF. (And yes, I've used both).
The 24-105 is superior in build quality, but the 15-85mm is quite good - and the 60D is no slouch either in build quality & functionality (though I do admit that the 5DmkII has superior image quality).
The cost savings by staing with an APS-C (well over $1000) would be worth it unless the OP is SURE he is going 'pro' and requires a FF in the future. There is so much scope to learn on a 1.6x 'crop sensor' camera - particularly as a first camera coming up from a P&S.
Paul
Having read all the posts so far, there is much great advice already offered.
My perspective mirrors that given by some others already - if this is a first DSLR (regardless of age, though probably particularly for a 14 year old) - I'd say that most enjoyment and the best 'learning' could be obtained with 1 lens. My suggestion is to get the Canon 60D with the 15-85mm lens - for very high image quality, wide angle (24mm equivalent) - and still capable of great portraits (in decent light).
Buy a 50mm f1.8 or f1.4 only if really really necessary. I might even suggest taking a tripod instead of more lenses, but that depends on the exact itinerary and travel plans. The convenience of 'just' having a camera with 1 lens attached can often not be underestimated for travel in many situations (and yes, I travel a lot).
Buy a lens hood to protect against flare / snow, etc (you can get a good quality one for about $5 to $10 - including shipping! - from Hong Kong / China). It also offers a bit more dust protection - ie prevents some of the dust from settling on the front element.
The suggestion given by one person to buy a Canon 5DmkII with the 24-105 isn't bad, however as the OP stated that he is on a budget, I would still be inclined to suggest the Canon 60D with 15-85mm instead, which is still very suitable for an Iceland trip. The 15-85mm performs similarly on a APS-C to the 24-105 on a FF. (And yes, I've used both).
The 24-105 is superior in build quality, but the 15-85mm is quite good - and the 60D is no slouch either in build quality & functionality (though I do admit that the 5DmkII has superior image quality).
The cost savings by staing with an APS-C (well over $1000) would be worth it unless the OP is SURE he is going 'pro' and requires a FF in the future. There is so much scope to learn on a 1.6x 'crop sensor' camera - particularly as a first camera coming up from a P&S.
Paul
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AcinonyxJG
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Re: All Around lenses
Thanks for all the help, what I'll do is wait until I get the camera and kit lens, though I am not going to know which kit I would get with it, as I might get it for christmas. Whichever lens it is I will practice with it and get to know it and the camera for a couple of months, and then decide on whether or not I think I'll need one or two different lenses, to get the different light conditions and focal lengths, sound like a plan? (I would be renting the lenses, I'll probably invest in a tripod, or buy a monopod and other things like spare batteries and general accessories to get me started, then I can start deciding on exactly which lenses would suit my type of photography, (I am getting a job next year))
Thanks for all the help, what I'll do is wait until I get the camera and kit lens, though I am not going to know which kit I would get with it, as I might get it for christmas. Whichever lens it is I will practice with it and get to know it and the camera for a couple of months, and then decide on whether or not I think I'll need one or two different lenses, to get the different light conditions and focal lengths, sound like a plan? (I would be renting the lenses, I'll probably invest in a tripod, or buy a monopod and other things like spare batteries and general accessories to get me started, then I can start deciding on exactly which lenses would suit my type of photography, (I am getting a job next year))
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Re: All Around lenses
Sounds like a great plan definitely learn/experiment first, then add more kit when you are more certain about your needs.
AcinonyxJG said:
Sounds like a great plan
definitely learn/experiment first, then add more kit when you are more certain about your needs.
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Re: All Around lenses
If he is just starting and ends up with a crop sensor camera what are anyones thoughts on the 18 - 200 EF-S lens as a starting / learning lens. Not an L by any streach but might give a range and single lense solution that I have not seem just reading the last couple of pages.
If he is just starting and ends up with a crop sensor camera what are anyones thoughts on the 18 - 200 EF-S lens as a starting / learning lens. Not an L by any streach but might give a range and single lense solution that I have not seem just reading the last couple of pages.
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Flake
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Re: All Around lenses
My advice to anyone buying an 18 - 200mm superzoom, is not to bother & to buy an SX30 instead. The whole point of a DSLR is that you can change the lenses to optimise image quality, and because superzoom 'all in one' lenses are inevitably too much of a compromise.
You learn more from a lens & limits than you ever would from a point & shoot, if you really want to learn about photography for goodness sake get on a night school course and learn properly! I don't know where this subborness comes from in some people, that they can somehow teach themselves and don't want anyone else telling them. Maybe it's a man thing? An outside pair of eye on your images will bring on your skills no end, and learning how & why things work the way they do helps in avoiding silly mistakes.
A DSLR is a complex piece of kit, and you're not going to get the best out of it without a little help.
My advice to anyone buying an 18 - 200mm superzoom, is not to bother & to buy an SX30 instead. The whole point of a DSLR is that you can change the lenses to optimise image quality, and because superzoom 'all in one' lenses are inevitably too much of a compromise.
You learn more from a lens & limits than you ever would from a point & shoot, if you really want to learn about photography for goodness sake get on a night school course and learn properly! I don't know where this subborness comes from in some people, that they can somehow teach themselves and don't want anyone else telling them. Maybe it's a man thing? An outside pair of eye on your images will bring on your skills no end, and learning how & why things work the way they do helps in avoiding silly mistakes.
A DSLR is a complex piece of kit, and you're not going to get the best out of it without a little help.
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Re: All Around lenses
Another route would be something like the t2i or t3i. These can be bought fairly cheap, the extra money can go into lenses and even say a 430 EX II, and the difference from a t3i to a 60D is not that far off. 60D definitely is a little faster and better AF, so it all depends on ones needs and trade offs. The t3i is probably a little better for video. Spend a little more and the 7D might fit nicely.
Another route would be something like the t2i or t3i. These can be bought fairly cheap, the extra money can go into lenses and even say a 430 EX II, and the difference from a t3i to a 60D is not that far off. 60D definitely is a little faster and better AF, so it all depends on ones needs and trade offs. The t3i is probably a little better for video. Spend a little more and the 7D might fit nicely.
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Re: All Around lenses
I hinted at this before -- it's not necessarily best to keep all your options open. Focus on stuff you know you will want (e.g. a lens for landscape pics is a safe bet). You don't need to and you can't take every possible photo -- focus on the pics you do get and try to get some really good ones.
I have a recent travel experience somewhat relevant -- I went to Australia to visit parents. I took one fixed lens (50mm f/1.4) with a 5DMkII. I figured it would be good enough for landscapes and I wanted to focus on family pics.
It was the right choice-- the lens blows away a general purpose zoom for this type of shot so the pics of my parents with their grand daughter worked out great. My friend has a 2yo daughter, so I took some nice family shots of them. The landscapes were good enough but the ones my family really remembered were the family shots. By not having a long tele, I couldn't take a good pic of the kangaroos but this wasn't a high priority. And because I only had one lens, the camera was already to go, so I captured a lot of "decisive moments".
The moral of the story is that you don't have to photograph everything. I wouldn't necessarily take only one lens, but covering 10mm-300mm is another extreme that I'd avoid.
AcinonyxJG said:
I hinted at this before -- it's not necessarily best to keep all your options open. Focus on stuff you know you will want (e.g. a lens for landscape pics is a safe bet). You don't need to and you can't take every possible photo -- focus on the pics you do get and try to get some really good ones.
I have a recent travel experience somewhat relevant -- I went to Australia to visit parents. I took one fixed lens (50mm f/1.4) with a 5DMkII. I figured it would be good enough for landscapes and I wanted to focus on family pics.
It was the right choice-- the lens blows away a general purpose zoom for this type of shot so the pics of my parents with their grand daughter worked out great. My friend has a 2yo daughter, so I took some nice family shots of them. The landscapes were good enough but the ones my family really remembered were the family shots. By not having a long tele, I couldn't take a good pic of the kangaroos but this wasn't a high priority. And because I only had one lens, the camera was already to go, so I captured a lot of "decisive moments".
The moral of the story is that you don't have to photograph everything. I wouldn't necessarily take only one lens, but covering 10mm-300mm is another extreme that I'd avoid.
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AcinonyxJG
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Re: All Around lenses
Trust me, if I was able to do a photography course, I would, my school is starting phtotography GCSE next year, unfortunately too late for me, as I am already almost halfway through my GCSE's, although, I might be able to for A-level, or do it out of school, or maybe a GCSE short course. If I can't there is no harm in anyone trying to teach themselves anything, but I am still going to do a lot of research on the internet to help me learn.
Thanks, regarding the landscape lens, I have decided that I will rent the Tokina 11-16mm F/2.8 for Iceland, if I don't feel like it is the right one for me, then I can try out others to find which one suits my kind of photography (yes I will buy a tripod AND WILL practice with and learn about the camera and kit lens for a few months first)
Flake said:
Trust me, if I was able to do a photography course, I would, my school is starting phtotography GCSE next year, unfortunately too late for me, as I am already almost halfway through my GCSE's, although, I might be able to for A-level, or do it out of school, or maybe a GCSE short course. If I can't there is no harm in anyone trying to teach themselves anything, but I am still going to do a lot of research on the internet to help me learn.
elflord said:
Thanks, regarding the landscape lens, I have decided that I will rent the Tokina 11-16mm F/2.8 for Iceland, if I don't feel like it is the right one for me, then I can try out others to find which one suits my kind of photography (yes I will buy a tripod AND WILL practice with and learn about the camera and kit lens for a few months first)
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1. Look at photographers pictures from Iceland (ie. Art Wolfe, and I would recommend his TV show)
2. Get a tripod that is easy to carry. Monopods aren't too useful for travel photos
3. Learn about the 10 sec timer or get a remote shutter release so you can be in the group photos.
4. Don't weigh yourself down with photo gear. Especially if you are going with other people. I would also recommend making a strap for the tripod to carry it around if you are going to be walking a lot.
5. Depending on how long you are going for, buying used lens and then selling it on eBay might work better.
6. Does the 60D do video? Take a few 30-60 second clips of waterfalls and such.
7. If I had a 60D, with a 24-105 kit lens let's say, I would rent a 8-15 before the telephoto lens. I use my 300mm a lot, but it is hard to carry around all day just for the few shots that might occur.
2. Get a tripod that is easy to carry. Monopods aren't too useful for travel photos
3. Learn about the 10 sec timer or get a remote shutter release so you can be in the group photos.
4. Don't weigh yourself down with photo gear. Especially if you are going with other people. I would also recommend making a strap for the tripod to carry it around if you are going to be walking a lot.
5. Depending on how long you are going for, buying used lens and then selling it on eBay might work better.
6. Does the 60D do video? Take a few 30-60 second clips of waterfalls and such.
7. If I had a 60D, with a 24-105 kit lens let's say, I would rent a 8-15 before the telephoto lens. I use my 300mm a lot, but it is hard to carry around all day just for the few shots that might occur.
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AcinonyxJG
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Caps18 said:
Thanks, very useful, I will probably take some short videos, and a tripod is one thing I will definately want to buy, I'm looking at a Manfrotto 055CXPRO3, and a very nice ball head to go with it, Manfrotto also do a line of tripod bags and straps, so will look into those. With the remote release, I would buy one but I am unsure about them, I have read that some need to be pointed at the camera. I've looked at some of the wired ones, to help me with long exposure pictures, and possibly macro later on next year, do you know of any that are compatible with canon, but do not need to be in a particular position for the picture to be taken?
Thanks again, James
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Who says that a telephoto isn't useful for landscapes? I might not take my 120-300mm to Iceland unless I knew it would be useful, but I'd take at least a 90mm (on APS-C) or 135mm. It's a common problem among photographers to think that the telephoto perspective is useless; in reality I find that it's much easier to compose with a telephoto lens. Stop down if you don't like the "compressed" look of narrower DOF.
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