Looking for an upgrade to my shorty 40 (indoor/general lens)

Feb 9, 2013
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I shoot on a t4i and currently own just two lenses - the Canon 85 1.8, and the Canon 40 2.8. I generally use the 85 outdoors and the 40 indoors, and that works pretty well for me.

The quality difference between my two lenses is pretty big though. The bokeh on my 85 is awesome, and it's also super sharp. I know this is a little biased because I generally use it in better lighting conditions, but I think it's objectively a much better lens. I'd like to get something just as good for my indoor uses (parties, pictures of my 1 year old, etc).

One option would be the Sigma 35mm 1.4, which is at the very top of the price range I could consider ($900). Coming in a little less would be the Canon 35mm 2.0. Would I notice enough of a quality upgrade going from the 40 to the 35? Anything else I should be considering?

Thanks.
 
Unless you are wanting a distance scale, very shallow depth of field or both, prepare for disappointment.

Incidentally the 85 1.8 is not sharper than the 40.

Your two lenses you have are giving a short and medium tele field of view on your t4. They are both very good lenses. I would keep the 40 and get the 24 2.8 IS. This will give you a very moderate wide angle field of view. If you don't want wider than 'standard' get the 28 2.8 IS.
 
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Lighting conditions can be the driving factor. Resolution and DR fall and noise increases with higher ISOs. Do you use a flash?

If you're willing to trade DOF for lower ISO, greater blur, then the S35 f/1.4 is a good choice. Plus you can adjust the lens to the body with the dock. If your inside subjects are people, then flash is better when there is more than one subject. For an APS-C camera, I'd opt for the largest aperture possible (so S35 over the Canon 35 f/2 IS). However, if your indoor subjects aren't people, then the 24 and 28 f/2.8 IS are fine choices.
 
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Sporgon said:
Incidentally the 85 1.8 is not sharper than the 40.
Interesting. I must just think it is because shooting outdoors allows me to lower ISO and stop it down a little. Or maybe the contrast between in focus subject and blown out background makes the subject "feel" sharper than it really is.

[quote author=Random Orbits]Do you use a flash?[/quote]
No, I don't own anything other than the t4i's built-in flash, and I don't like how it looks in photos. I would consider buying a flash that I can bounce off the ceiling if that's going to improve my indoor photos more than buying a faster lens would.

Thanks for all the recommendations everyone. Lots of stuff for me to research further here.
 
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Sneakers said:
I would consider buying a flash that I can bounce off the ceiling if that's going to improve my indoor photos more than buying a faster lens would.

Yes, it will.

Buy a big one with a simple dome diffuser. Indoors, where the light can bounce pretty much everywhere, it gives a very nice and even lighting.

If you cant afford the Canon 600, try a 580 II used. Otherwise the YN568 and Metz 58 AF-2 are also very good. The latter is particularly good when used on camera because of the additional small direct light. But the Yongnuo is super cheap.
 
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Sneakers said:
Sporgon said:
Incidentally the 85 1.8 is not sharper than the 40.
Interesting. I must just think it is because shooting outdoors allows me to lower ISO and stop it down a little. Or maybe the contrast between in focus subject and blown out background makes the subject "feel" sharper than it really is.

It is highly likely that when using the 40 indoors you have lower shutter speeds and / or higher ISO which is resulting in less resolution, but as Neuro pointed out it's possible that your body / 40 mm combo is out of calibration enough to effect the result.

Try shooting a suitable target or scene ( good contrast) with the 40 using your usual focus method, then do exactly the same thing using live view. Use f2.8, a low iso and lots of light to give a fast shutter speed in the 1/1000 region if you are hand held. Critical sharpness tests can be very misleading at lower speeds due to random shake if hand held even on a wider lens.

Both sets of results should be the same. ( live view may be darker depending on your method ).
 
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Sneakers said:
Sporgon said:
Incidentally the 85 1.8 is not sharper than the 40.
Interesting. I must just think it is because shooting outdoors allows me to lower ISO and stop it down a little. Or maybe the contrast between in focus subject and blown out background makes the subject "feel" sharper than it really is.

[quote author=Random Orbits]Do you use a flash?
No, I don't own anything other than the t4i's built-in flash, and I don't like how it looks in photos. I would consider buying a flash that I can bounce off the ceiling if that's going to improve my indoor photos more than buying a faster lens would.

Thanks for all the recommendations everyone. Lots of stuff for me to research further here.
[/quote]

We all... share that opinion that the built in flash gives those highlights on the face and takes out all of the contours of the face... so you are in good company. But you could try one of these on the cheap...

http://www.amazon.com/Deluxe-Mirror-Bounce-Device-Cameras/dp/B00H6P5Z1Q/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1396177850&sr=8-2&keywords=flash+mirror+slr

http://www.amazon.com/Professor-Lightscoop-Version-Universal-Cameras/dp/B0017LT7BO/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1396177850&sr=8-8&keywords=flash+mirror+slr

http://www.amazon.com/Professor-LIGHTSCOOP-Standard-Version-Cleaning/dp/B00HWH7G4W/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1396177850&sr=8-5&keywords=flash+mirror+slr

But a good cheap manual flash will help a good deal... heck... you can get a 430 ex for around $150ish...
 
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Sneakers said:
One option would be the Sigma 35mm 1.4, which is at the very top of the price range I could consider ($900). Coming in a little less would be the Canon 35mm 2.0. Would I notice enough of a quality upgrade going from the 40 to the 35? Anything else I should be considering?

Thanks.

I have had the 40 2.8 for a while and recently picked up a 35 2 IS, and I'm using them on a 6D. I haven't had a chance to play too much with the 35 yet, but my initial impression is the image quality is pretty similar to the 40. So far I'd say the 35 might be a touch better, but it's not by much. I do notice 35 is wider than 40 - I prefer the 35 for things like street photography, but if you've got anyone reasonably close to the camera then I'd pick the 40 (just that little bit longer means a little bit less enlargement of noses, etc - but of course neither is likely to be a great choice for a close up portrait!). The 35 is pretty sharp even at f2 so you I'd say you get a genuinely usable extra stop there (provided the DOF is enough for your purpose), but the biggest difference is the IS. As long as your subject isn't moving, the IS means you can take sharp handheld shots in MUCH lower light than you can with the 40. Or if there's a bit more light (and a stationary subject), you can use the IS to keep your ISO down that much more.

I might change my mind after I've had more chance to play with the 35, but so far I'd say it's a very nice lens which works as advertised - it's pretty sharp even at f2 and the IS does a good job - but it hasn't wowed me yet (except to the extent I've been able to hand hold shots in very low light). And compared to the 40 it's very expensive, not to mention significantly bigger and heavier (even if it's small and light compared with many lenses), and the IQ is not so different.

To pick up on a few points others have made -
Agree that a good flash would be worth investigating. It can make a huge difference (in the right situation).
I've never used the Sigma 18-35 1.8 but from everything I've read, I'd be taking a good look at one if I was shooting with a crop sensor.
I used a 28 1.8 on crop and did like it as a general walk around lens. It doesn't get good reviews and it does get softer than you'd like pretty quickly once you move away from the centre of the frame, but equally (on crop) I didn't think it was as bad as some people made out. If you're shooting for your own enjoyment, I'd say have a good look at one. If you're shooting professionally, it's weaknesses might be more significant.

I read in a recent thread that Dustin Abbott isn't too far from completing a review of the 35 2 IS. I will be very interested to see what his take on it is. I'm very much in the amateur photographer camp, so I'll be interested to see what someone like Dustin has to say about it.

PS - as another suggestion, maybe a 17-55 2.8 IS if you can find one within your budget (maybe look 2nd hand)? I liked it a lot on crop (well, it does have to be on crop after all!) and the IS can be useful. If it was me shooting with your gear, I think I'd be looking at the 17-55 2.8 IS, the Sigma 18-35 1.8 or a flash (subject to budget of course).
 
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Emil said:
Consider looking for a used 28mm f1.8. I think it works really well with aps-c sized sensors, giving a equivalent full frame view of ~45mm. I used almost exclusively this lens with my 600d.

+1. I've been using that lens with my 500D. Now, I'm still using it with my 6D and it seems to be sharper than ever. Together with the 50mm F1.8 II, I've got a fairly light combo. The fact that it focuses fast even in low-light is a plus especially indoors. There are lot of people selling theirs after they moved from APS-C to FF due to the kit lens they got when buying their FF. You can get a lot of deals for this lens. For me, I'll keep mine. It's very useful for me. It's sharpest when used @ F2.8 and above but F2.2 is sharp enough especially for portraits.
 
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jd7 said:
PS - as another suggestion, maybe a 17-55 2.8 IS if you can find one within your budget (maybe look 2nd hand)? I liked it a lot on crop (well, it does have to be on crop after all!) and the IS can be useful. If it was me shooting with your gear, I think I'd be looking at the 17-55 2.8 IS, the Sigma 18-35 1.8 or a flash (subject to budget of course).
I could justify the price of the 17-55 (around $900, same as the Sigma 35mm 1.4 that I'm already considering), if I could convince myself that I wouldn't immediately begin wishing I had faster prime glass for indoor shooting.

I've never rented a lens before, but at that price I might go the rental route before I commit.
 
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Sneakers said:
jd7 said:
PS - as another suggestion, maybe a 17-55 2.8 IS if you can find one within your budget (maybe look 2nd hand)? I liked it a lot on crop (well, it does have to be on crop after all!) and the IS can be useful. If it was me shooting with your gear, I think I'd be looking at the 17-55 2.8 IS, the Sigma 18-35 1.8 or a flash (subject to budget of course).
I could justify the price of the 17-55 (around $900, same as the Sigma 35mm 1.4 that I'm already considering), if I could convince myself that I wouldn't immediately begin wishing I had faster prime glass for indoor shooting.

I've never rented a lens before, but at that price I might go the rental route before I commit.
Any faster than f2.8 you will have DoF issues, so rely on IS and higher ISO, with a touch of flash. The 17-55 is amazing, grab it used, there are a lot of them out there. Otherwise check out the refurbs - http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/lenses-flashes/refurbished-lenses/ef-s-17-55-f-28-is-usm-refurbished

I can't believe it's down to $563 - I know I sold mine for $750 last year...
 
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Halfrack said:
Any faster than f2.8 you will have DoF issues

f/2.8 on a crop body will give comparable DOF to f/4.5 on a full frame camera - not all that thin... At 15 feet you have a DOF of 2.83 feet with the 40mm pancake at f/2.8. With a 35mm lens at f/1.4 the DOF is a very reasonable 7.5 inches. There are times I would like less DOF than this, so the faster the lens the better. You can always step down, but can't go wider than your lenses physical maximum aperture.
 
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Sporgon said:
Unless you are wanting a distance scale, very shallow depth of field or both, prepare for disappointment.

Incidentally the 85 1.8 is not sharper than the 40.

Your two lenses you have are giving a short and medium tele field of view on your t4. They are both very good lenses. I would keep the 40 and get the 24 2.8 IS. This will give you a very moderate wide angle field of view. If you don't want wider than 'standard' get the 28 2.8 IS.

I certainly agree with most of the comments. I have owned the 40mm and now I have the 35mm f2IS and the later is sharper and has IS that allow you to take pictures in very low light at low speeds. It is a general purpose lens in APS-C and excellent walkaround in FF.
If you are not planning to move to FF in the near future, I recommend the 17-55 f2.8IS and the Sigma 18-35 f1.8. These two lenses are made for APS-C and offer better IQ and sharpness than many lenses made for FF.
 
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