Looks like the 6D may not be so bad after all

[WSMyles]

Anyone else think that maybe the propeller-heads at Canon designed the 6D down to the *rumoured* price of the D600 ($1599) instead of the actual price ($2100)? I can just 'see' the party in the weekly Product Development meeting when Nikon released their price... and if "They" are selling at over 2k, why not do the same? After all, it's too late to add an autofocus system back into it, this close to market.

All I wanted was a FF DSLR with a decent AF system and reasonable IQ in variable light for dog sports. I don't even care about >4fps. The rest of the time, I could even do MF! Don't care about video. I'm not 'committed' to anyone's system yet, as I've been waiting to see what was coming out this year. Nikon might have an edge on the bodies right now, but for the focal lengths I'm looking at, Canon has the better glass.

Yes, I could probably get away with a 7D for the sporting stuff, and a 6D for everything else... but that would mean lugging two compromise bodies around for the same price as a 5D3. Put the 7D AF system in the 6D and I'd probably perorder it. Hell, you could even take the "OK, but not perfect" sensors from the 1DX production line and stick them in a lower-end FF camera for all I care. 18MP is plenty. I'd rather have another stop or two of clean ISO than 4-6MP.

It looks like noone wants my money unless I give them ALL of it. Looks like my 30d might have a couple of years left on it... perhaps with a 70-300. Maybe even a 70-300 L. Case in point of elasticity of demand. Stretch the customer too far, and they walk away. You get 100% of nothing. If the prices here in Oz were on parity with the US or HK, it'd be harder to walk away... but with 20-30% margin? These shoes are walkin'.

(And yes, I'm aware that Canon have decided [or justified, retrospectively?] that the target market for the 6D is travellers/tourists, who don't need more than one AF point.)

 

[Marsu42]

Anyone else think that maybe the propeller-heads at Canon designed the 6D down to the *rumoured* price of the D600 ($1599) instead of the actual price ($2100)?

You might find that Canon thinks that $2100 is a very reasonable price for a ff camera, they seem to have lost the grip on reality a bit - or maybe not, because they know users won't switch. If they designed the 6d for the $1600 price tag they'd left out autofocus completely :-o

It looks like noone wants my money unless I give them ALL of it.

Indeed - I've got €5000 lying around waiting to be spent on Canon equipment, but the current €3000 5d3 + €2500 24-70 (excluding equipment like cf cards yadayada) simply don't seem like a very sweet offer to me.

 

[WSMyles]

You might find that Canon thinks that $2100 is a very reasonable price for a ff camera, they seem to have lost the grip on reality a bit - or maybe not, because they know users won't switch. If they designed the 6d for the $1600 price tag they'd left out autofocus completely :-o

Arguably, they did leave it out Actually, I would be reasonably happy paying $2100 for a FF version of a 7D, as long as I can have it tomorrow. Just upscale the AF/metering units and the sensor/mirrorbox and it has everything I want... and they even have a sensor they could use - the one from the 1DX. Just use the ones that are 'marginal' for the big-brother camera. I'm frankly amazed they aren't doing that already. Perhaps they are stockpiling them for future use in this very way?

Of course, the "$2100" 6D won't sell for anything like that here, either. The "preorder" prices are well above that, and I'm not talking about 10% either... There is a mysterious $400 gap between the average price for a fully imported 5d3 body (including shipping, GST and customs duty) and the very best retail prices. That's rather more than 13%. Add the 24-105 and it becomes $600....

It looks like noone wants my money unless I give them ALL of it.

Indeed - I've got €5000 lying around waiting to be spent on Canon equipment, but the current €3000 5d3 + €2500 24-70 (excluding equipment like cf cards yadayada) simply don't seem like a very sweet offer to me.

At least that here, but it won't be 'reserved' for long. I'm focal-length limited right now, and the AF on the 30d is probably comparable to the 6d (what, five years later?) - so cropping half the frame or more AND struggling for focus is doing my head in. There's practically nothing left except the 'lucky shots.'

I remember reading the 6D leaked specs here a few days before it was announced, thinking to myself, "they CAN'T be that out of touch. Who would buy this?" Then the boot fell.. the leak was right!

 

[kalmiya]

Anyone else think that maybe the propeller-heads at Canon designed the 6D down to the *rumoured* price of the D600 ($1599) instead of the actual price ($2100)? I can just 'see' the party in the weekly Product Development meeting when Nikon released their price... and if "They" are selling at over 2k, why not do the same? After all, it's too late to add an autofocus system back into it, this close to market.

All I wanted was a FF DSLR with a decent AF system and reasonable IQ in variable light for dog sports. I don't even care about >4fps. The rest of the time, I could even do MF! Don't care about video. I'm not 'committed' to anyone's system yet, as I've been waiting to see what was coming out this year. Nikon might have an edge on the bodies right now, but for the focal lengths I'm looking at, Canon has the better glass.

Yes, I could probably get away with a 7D for the sporting stuff, and a 6D for everything else... but that would mean lugging two compromise bodies around for the same price as a 5D3. Put the 7D AF system in the 6D and I'd probably perorder it. Hell, you could even take the "OK, but not perfect" sensors from the 1DX production line and stick them in a lower-end FF camera for all I care. 18MP is plenty. I'd rather have another stop or two of clean ISO than 4-6MP.

It looks like noone wants my money unless I give them ALL of it. Looks like my 30d might have a couple of years left on it... perhaps with a 70-300. Maybe even a 70-300 L. Case in point of elasticity of demand. Stretch the customer too far, and they walk away. You get 100% of nothing. If the prices here in Oz were on parity with the US or HK, it'd be harder to walk away... but with 20-30% margin? These shoes are walkin'.

(And yes, I'm aware that Canon have decided [or justified, retrospectively?] that the target market for the 6D is travellers/tourists, who don't need more than one AF point.)

Funny, I was also looking into full-frame, and came to the same conclusion...
For the moment, my 550D is "good enough" to be used for some more time..
And I'm not in a rush anymore, for the moment, I'll wait and observe.

 

[symmar22]

Indeed - I've got €5000 lying around waiting to be spent on Canon equipment, but the current €3000 5d3 + €2500 24-70 (excluding equipment like cf cards yadayada) simply don't seem like a very sweet offer to me.

I have exactly the same problem

 

[dswatson83]

2 Dead pixels in a brand new D600! Man, i'm really pissed that Canon had to cripple the 6D because the D600 has ALOT of issues like no aperture control in video live view, dead pixels, and some screen issues and Canon could have capitalized. Guess the 5D mark III will have to be my pro body as well as my spare/travel body

Source:
Nikon D600 Full Hands On Review & Test

 

[crasher8]

Could you share the information what ps trick or 3rd party software is supposed to remove banding noise? I'd really like to have it in LR, but I've got some pictures that needed shadows raised a lot (high dr shots with moving objects) and that I'd really like to postprocess to a usable state?

TopazLabs DeNoise

it works OK on weaker banding like the 5d2 but on my 7d it had to smear too much detail to remove the strong 8-pixel wide vertical striping.
might be workable on the slightly better performing 60D,
..which reminds me... I need to try it on a 60D shot I took as a quick candid with a friend in deep shadow without flash or wrecking the main subject exposure. When I pushed it hard the 60d banded nearly as bad as my 7D but I don't think the subject would mind being smoothed out a little.

www.topazlabs.com/blog/denoise-5s-debanding-technology/

TopazLabs DeNoise works very good for my 7D pictures.... i recommend this soft.

Does anyone have any experience with DeNoise on a 5D3?

 

[xps]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

 

[ajschot]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

i tried at the Photokina last month with an 24-70 f/2.8 L II lens and it is really fast in normal light and in worse light as at the booth of Canon at the Photokina. i switched between de cam in front (close like 60cm or so and the to a dark truss somewhere up (10 meters) and it was fast, al servo also tried on the canon guys but well they were not running so could not test that but at f/2.8 it was fast and for what i could see in the LCD it was at most zoomed sharp too.

 

[tron]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

 

[x-vision]

It looks like noone wants my money unless I give them ALL of it.

I think you nailed it.

Between an overpriced 5DIII and an underspec'd 6D, I'm choosing ... to spend on neither.

 

[EchoLocation]

Indeed - I've got €5000 lying around waiting to be spent on Canon equipment, but the current €3000 5d3 + €2500 24-70 (excluding equipment like cf cards yadayada) simply don't seem like a very sweet offer to me.

I have exactly the same problem

me 3... i had a 5DC and 24-105 and had about 3000 dollars to upgrade my gear. I really wanted the 24-70, but the new price was just too high... I really wanted the 5DIII, but same story(and the D800 price and reviews weren't exactly making the 5DIII seem any sweeter.)
Anyways, I'm living in China, so some things aren't so easy... but, I ended up trading my 5DC and 24-105 for a mint 24-70 Nikon, then i bought a D700 with a shutter count of 3000 for $1500(with an extra battery.)
I just spent 2 weeks shooting everyday in Japan..... and I could not be happier. The D700 dominates all Canons outside of the 5DIII and 1 series on AF. The image quality is just as good or better. The AF alone has increased my keeper rate from 40% to over 60 or 70%. Me and my wife would never consider switching to anything but the 5DIII, but I'd be pretty bummed about losing the pop up flash, which I actually love.
At 3000 dollars for a used D700 and 24-70, there is absolutely no need to spend over 5000 dollars on a 5DIII and 24-70 II(unless you need video, or MP.)
I had been waiting for over a year to make a purchase, begging Canon to make a FF 7D.... but alas, the 6D was just wayyy too little and too late. I liked the D600, but I couldn't justify spending 800 dollars more(I'm in China) for a camera that I wasn't sure had better AF than the D700(AF was my biggest gripe with Canon.)
Anyways, in a year or so I might consider the D800, or maybe even the RX1, but for the moment, I am thrilled with my switch to Nikon and the D700.

 

[xps]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

One shop owner, who is working with Canon and offers Canon-workshops in south Germany, said, that he was albe to take some shots with it. So, I think the Camera exists.

No, digitally I am usiong an 7D and an 60D. I am looking for an replacement for the 7D, becauese of high noise & grain. (not repairable by Canon)

 

[tron]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

One shop owner, who is working with Canon and offers Canon-workshops in south Germany, said, that he was albe to take some shots with it. So, I think the Camera exists.

No, digitally I am usiong an 7D and an 60D. I am looking for an replacement for the 7D, becauese of high noise & grain. (not repairable by Canon)

6D is completely different from 7D (with 1.6x crop factor and 8 fps). 7D is more useful for sports and generally subjects with movement and cases where someone is focal length limited. 6D will certainly have much lower noise but it will be much more suitable for landscapes (not 1.6X reach, not many fps). So for 4000 someone could get 1DmkIV to replace a 7D. It is 16Mp, 1.3X crop factor, has more fps and low noise. Unless you do not need the reach and fps. In that case a 5DmkIII would seem a nice alternative.

 

[xps]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

One shop owner, who is working with Canon and offers Canon-workshops in south Germany, said, that he was albe to take some shots with it. So, I think the Camera exists.

No, digitally I am usiong an 7D and an 60D. I am looking for an replacement for the 7D, becauese of high noise & grain. (not repairable by Canon)

6D is completely different from 7D (with 1.6x crop factor and 8 fps). 7D is more useful for sports and generally subjects with movement and cases where someone is focal length limited. 6D will certainly have much lower noise but it will be much more suitable for landscapes (not 1.6X reach, not many fps). So for 4000 someone could get 1DmkIV to replace a 7D. It is 16Mp, 1.3X crop factor, has more fps and low noise. Unless you do not need the reach and fps. In that case a 5DmkIII would seem a nice alternative.

Yes, indeed! I hope that an alternative to the 7D soon appears. I hope for an 7D MK2. But, if you read the postings, there is some doubt about that.

A Camera in the class of about 2000€ would be great. So I can replace the Cam sooner, then when I have to spent more money for it. Crop would be good (more focal lenght) - with an better IQ of the 7D follower.


5D3 is an alternative for it. But I would like to use my 100-400 with an 1.4 extender. 400mm is not near enough for the living and steel birds. IQ & AF are much better, but I would loose much focal length.

Still looking on the 6D - maybe it is better then everybody says. Lets wait for the first reviews

 

[RustyTheGeek]

I've compared the 6D specs, read reviews, etc. In general, I think...

The 5D3 is...
- easy to review/compare, it can be held, purchased and used now.
- priced too high, just like all the latest new Canon gear & lenses. What camera item isn't?
- aimed at Pros that might overpay because they need it.
- a FF camera, not best for sports. Why is FF sports shooting being discussed by some posters?
- a wonderful camera in every other respect for its intended market.

The 6D is...
- impossible to review/compare, it can't be held, purchased or used now.
- priced too high, just like all the latest new Canon gear & lenses. What camera item isn't?
- aimed at Enthusiasts that might overpay because they want it.
- a FF camera, not best for sports. Why is FF sports shooting being discussed by some posters?
- a wonderful camera in every other respect for its intended market.

My thought on what 'pros' want...
It cracks me up when I hear all the remarks about 5D Mark III features that are missing from the 6D and that 'pros' will not be happy with the 6D. Most 'pros' will just use the 6D like any other camera - to make pictures. They will adapt to whatever the camera can or can't do. Or they will simply ignore it. They likely are too busy working to discuss it at length in forums. The answer to all the lacking feature complaints is to buy the Mark III or the X. A 'pro' will buy what works best for them whether they shoot weddings, produce 'high end' video or whatever just like they have done for years with lesser equipment. My guess is that most 'pros' wish they could afford half the new equipment that so many enthusiasts buy with abandon and 'review'.

High Canon prices?
The answer to the high prices is a used FF 5Dc or 5DII. Whatever the case, any DSLR made in the last 10 years will make wonderful pictures in the right hands. I agree that new Canon products in the past year are overpriced. Esp the new EF prime lenses! So don't buy the stuff and it will get cheaper. Unfortunately, if high prices for new toys stopped buyers, Apple would have been out of business years ago. So here we are, faced with a high priced market.

I don't consider myself a fanboy. I just shoot humble pictures with a used FF 5Dc (love it) and various crop cameras like the 30D, 40D and 60D. I've invested in some great lenses. Now I'm getting in the mood for a FF upgrade to improve my low light shooting. I've waited for the 5D3 for a long time but it came out too expensive for now/new. Maybe I'll get one used someday. Maybe sooner I can get a 6D without having to wait as long since it will likely work fine for what I do. I can probably adapt to the feature limits. Whatever the case, I see no reason to totally dismiss the 6D without more facts based on actual use. I'm sure not going to toss my whole Canon system over a few features and pixel peeping. 'nuff said.

 

[Marsu42]

- priced too high, just like all the latest new Canon gear & lenses. What camera item isn't?

Rebels like the 650d offer an excellent value. And from Canon!

- a FF camera, not best for sports. Why is FF sports shooting being discussed by some posters?

I guess a 1d4 is too expensive and a 7d2 has more reach but is limited by the iso noise if you want high shutter speeds.

My guess is that most 'pros' wish they could afford half the new equipment that so many enthusiasts buy with abandon and 'review'.

Most likely this forum is heavily biased towards very expensive gear, I don't think there are that many amateurs around with 1dx+70-200/2.8Lis2 for shooting their children. So pros are likely to have the better gear (that doesn't mean the newest), if you look at other photography forums posters consider even a 60d extremely expensive and overkill for their needs.

I'm sure not going to toss my whole Canon system over a few features and pixel peeping.

Most people here won't - the general question is if and when Canon will ever get more competitive again in the enthusiast segment in comparison to the competition - and if you haven't got tons of canon lenses around imho that's a valid concern.

 

[RustyTheGeek]

Good points. In general the U.S. electronics buyer market is very good to all manufacturers of tech gear. Phones, A/V, camera, computer, etc. It's unfortunate that this buyer market is so impatient and willing to pay whatever is charged for new gear. If everyone was a bit more thrifty and frugal, I bet the same equipment would be 20%-30% less across the board. But until that happens, prices will continue to be high and won't drop for a longer period. Simple supply and demand. We supply a lot of money and don't demand enough in return IMHO. And of course it's all Apple's fault!

Another thought... everyone has a lot of pent up frustration over the high price of the 5D3 after so long a wait. I think perhaps the 6D is getting abuse because what everyone wants is the 5D3 FF and features at a cheaper price and the 6D FF isn't quite up to that level. If the 6D were viewed as a midpoint between the 5D2 and 5D3 or a 5D2 replacement, it would make a little more sense at least price wise. For the money, Canon should have provided a little bit more AF muscle and everyone would be happier. But I guess it is what it is. So be it!

 

[ajschot]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

Not true, i tried it on the Photokina there were 6 6D's to try, also here inteh Netherlands there are pro workshops where you can also try the 6D. And yes i know for sure it is there and yes i really had an 6D in y hands and played with it for almost one hour!

 

[tron]

4000€ in my wallet want to be spent...

Does anybody know. if the AF of the 6D is FAST too, or just accurate at low light?

How can someone know? 6D is an imaginary camera for now. Although I guess Canon cannot tolerate postponing it for many months (D600 being the reason. Ins't competition nice?)
Are you starting from scratch?
In that case you could go for the kit 5DIII and 24-105 f/4L IS.

It is possible to get it in Europe for 4000 euros

One shop owner, who is working with Canon and offers Canon-workshops in south Germany, said, that he was albe to take some shots with it. So, I think the Camera exists.

No, digitally I am usiong an 7D and an 60D. I am looking for an replacement for the 7D, becauese of high noise & grain. (not repairable by Canon)

6D is completely different from 7D (with 1.6x crop factor and 8 fps). 7D is more useful for sports and generally subjects with movement and cases where someone is focal length limited. 6D will certainly have much lower noise but it will be much more suitable for landscapes (not 1.6X reach, not many fps). So for 4000 someone could get 1DmkIV to replace a 7D. It is 16Mp, 1.3X crop factor, has more fps and low noise. Unless you do not need the reach and fps. In that case a 5DmkIII would seem a nice alternative.

Yes, indeed! I hope that an alternative to the 7D soon appears. I hope for an 7D MK2. But, if you read the postings, there is some doubt about that.

A Camera in the class of about 2000€ would be great. So I can replace the Cam sooner, then when I have to spent more money for it. Crop would be good (more focal lenght) - with an better IQ of the 7D follower.


5D3 is an alternative for it. But I would like to use my 100-400 with an 1.4 extender. 400mm is not near enough for the living and steel birds. IQ & AF are much better, but I would loose much focal length.

Still looking on the 6D - maybe it is better then everybody says. Lets wait for the first reviews

Yeh! I understand. I am focal length limited too. But I do love FF so I bought a 5D3 to keep company to my 5D2 :