Manual macro lenses for intraoral photographs

[Perio]

Hello guys. I take some intraoral photographs in the dental clinic using 70d and 100 2.8L. The combo works well, but sometimes I don't like the colors of the mouth tissues, even if shoot RAW. Once in a while I read very nice reviews about some other macro lenses (e.g., Voigtlander SL 125 2.5, Schneider Makro-Symmar 90mm 4.5, Leica R 100 2.8 APO) and I'm wondering if these lenses will give me some better image quality and color rendition?

All pictures I take are manual only, Canon Macro flash, ISO 100, shutter speed 1/100-1/150 sec and the widest aperture is 22 (I typically use aperture 32). Considering these parameters, would any of the above mentioned lenses give me any advantage over Canon 100L?

Another question is does anyone know if I cut a gray card to a small size to fit into the mouth, would I be able to more or less correctly adjust colors in LR?

Thank you!

 

[privatebydesign]

Hello guys. I take some intraoral photographs in the dental clinic using 70d and 100 2.8L. The combo works well, but sometimes I don't like the colors of the mouth tissues, even if shoot RAW. Once in a while I read very nice reviews about some other macro lenses (e.g., Voigtlander SL 125 2.5, Schneider Makro-Symmar 90mm 4.5, Leica R 100 2.8 APO) and I'm wondering if these lenses will give me some better image quality and color rendition?

All pictures I take are manual only, Canon Macro flash, ISO 100, shutter speed 1/100-1/150 sec and the widest aperture is 22 (I typically use aperture 32). Considering these parameters, would any of the above mentioned lenses give me any advantage over Canon 100L?

Another question is does anyone know if I cut a gray card to a small size to fit into the mouth, would I be able to more or less correctly adjust colors in LR?

Thank you!

No, a different lens will not help you, ignore anybody that says it will. Yes you can cut down a grey card but that will only give you a white balance, which is a start, but not the complete picture you need. What you need to do is create a custom profile for your camera using the lighting you do for your images. This can be done easily with a colour card (which doesn't need to go inside the mouth! Just have the same lighting as your images), the most popular one around is the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport. Their website has videos on how to create your profile and then use it.

 

[Perio]

Hello guys. I take some intraoral photographs in the dental clinic using 70d and 100 2.8L. The combo works well, but sometimes I don't like the colors of the mouth tissues, even if shoot RAW. Once in a while I read very nice reviews about some other macro lenses (e.g., Voigtlander SL 125 2.5, Schneider Makro-Symmar 90mm 4.5, Leica R 100 2.8 APO) and I'm wondering if these lenses will give me some better image quality and color rendition?

All pictures I take are manual only, Canon Macro flash, ISO 100, shutter speed 1/100-1/150 sec and the widest aperture is 22 (I typically use aperture 32). Considering these parameters, would any of the above mentioned lenses give me any advantage over Canon 100L?

Another question is does anyone know if I cut a gray card to a small size to fit into the mouth, would I be able to more or less correctly adjust colors in LR?

Thank you!

No, a different lens will not help you, ignore anybody that says it will. Yes you can cut down a grey card but that will only give you a white balance, which is a start, but not the complete picture you need. What you need to do is create a custom profile for your camera using the lighting you do for your images. This can be done easily with a colour card (which doesn't need to go inside the mouth! Just have the same lighting as your images), the most popular one around is the X-Rite ColorChecker Passport. Their website has videos on how to create your profile and then use it.

Hi privatebydesign, thanks for your response. I do have ColorChecker passport but how close should I position it to the tissues inside the mouth to achieve good results? I mean I can't place it inside the mouth..

 

[Zeidora]

I would think that the biggest problem is internal reflection of light inside the mouth, so that it will affect color the the target area. It is like bounce flash in a room with pink walls: the shots will have a pink tinge. It may also vary on which particular mouth and how dry/wet it is.

I would think an easier way may be if you can place a small grayscale (black, NG, white) inside (without affecting gag reflex), and then correct for color variance after the fact in PS. This will get you pretty darn close, short of doing a full profile. Not sure how accurate color needs to be.

 

[tolusina]

No idea if this can actually work, here goes anyway because I'd sure try if I had the need that you have.
Photograph your passport, color correct it to itself for whatever lighting was used for that shot, crop out all framing and borders, resize it down to something like postage stamp size, print and apply it to a dental mirror sized tool.

 

[mrzero]

No idea if this can actually work, here goes anyway because I'd sure try if I had the need that you have.
Photograph your passport, color correct it to itself for whatever lighting was used for that shot, crop out all framing and borders, resize it down to something like postage stamp size, print and apply it to a dental mirror sized tool.

I love this idea. If my dentist tried to jam a full size color-checker in my mouth, I'd bolt for the door!

 

[mackguyver]

The Canon 180mm macro was designed specifically for dental photos so the lens didn't have to be so close to the patient. From what I've read, it was sold as a kit the macro ring flash in Japan, specifically for dentists. Your crop sensor & lens are a good equivalent. As Private says, you just need to set the white balance to be the same as it will be with the patient (you can do it before the patient enters the room). I imagine the mixed lighting of overhead fluorescents, exam light, and camera flash are the issue.

Also, at f/32, you are getting a lot more depth of field, but I'm surprised there's much detail left at all due to diffraction. For me, on my less-dense sensors, f/16 is still quite good, f/22 is workable, but f/32 is mush. On a 70D, I think it must be even worse given that you start losing detail at f/6.6, the diffraction limit of that sensor. That may be giving you issues as well. You might try some shots (focusing on the premolars) at f/16 or f/22 next time to see how they compare. The DOF/detail trade off is tough with macro, but I think you'll find f/22 to be significantly better than f/32 as the detail fall off is not linear.

 

[-1]

Hello guys. I take some intraoral photographs in the dental clinic using 70d and 100 2.8L. The combo works well, but sometimes I don't like the colors of the mouth tissues, even if shoot RAW. Once in a while I read very nice reviews about some other macro lenses (e.g., Voigtlander SL 125 2.5, Schneider Makro-Symmar 90mm 4.5, Leica R 100 2.8 APO) and I'm wondering if these lenses will give me some better image quality and color rendition?

All pictures I take are manual only, Canon Macro flash, ISO 100, shutter speed 1/100-1/150 sec and the widest aperture is 22 (I typically use aperture 32). Considering these parameters, would any of the above mentioned lenses give me any advantage over Canon 100L?

Another question is does anyone know if I cut a gray card to a small size to fit into the mouth, would I be able to more or less correctly adjust colors in LR?

Thank you!

Since this must recuring procedure I would make it a standard setup. Voluntear the nurse to act like a patient, do put a greycard fragment in hens mouth. Take the picture and adjust to taste in RAW converter. Stick to these setting...

 

[johnhenry]

I used to have a Yashica "Dental Eye" which I used for close ups.

The mount is a Contax Yashica which you can buy adapters for

 

[JEL]

I would think that the biggest problem is internal reflection of light inside the mouth, so that it will affect color the the target area. It is like bounce flash in a room with pink walls: the shots will have a pink tinge.

+1

sometimes I don't like the colors of the mouth tissues

I think you should try colored flash-lights rather than grey-cards or xrite-cards.

A mouth is mostly red hues (even teeth is red hue), and then you have the white tissues.
If you experiment with colored flash-light, you may be able to achieve a much more pleasing color-palette. It can be as simple as putting some colored plastic over your flash. Try a red or pink bag for example, or whatever color gives you the result you prefer. A tiny thin plastic-bag, it doesn't have to be transparent, just thin enough to allow the flash to shine through.
Which color is ideal for what you want, I don't know, but I would start with reddish hues, then orange. Green, and to some extent blue, will likely make the mouth look very dark or even blackish like.