mhm... open letter to canon?

[DarkKnightNine]

with all the complains about canons 6D autofocus why is no website, that cares about canon in one way or the other, writing an open letter to canon... demanding a statement?

i mean.... dpreview wrote it´s a rather dissapointing camera and i have yet to read a preview that is not puzzled by the low-tech AF.

if we complain here in a forum .. canon cares a sh*t.

but if a popular and frequented website writes something and is not afraid to tell the truth... maybe canon will take notice and feel obligated to react?

or maybe it´s to late here and im just bored and tired.....

The 6D is supposed to excel at low-light autofocus. If you don't need that, then it probably wasn't built for you but rather for users who need that. If you have different needs for AF, Canon offers the 5D3 and 1DX. If none of those meet your needs, there are Nikon and Sony and others. Why complain that Canon isn't making the exact camera you want at the price you want at the time that you want it? No manufacturer can satisfy everyone. If Canon builds the exact camera that you want, then other potential buyers can rightfully "demand a statement" as to why Canon didn't build the camera that they wanted at the price that they wanted at the time that they wanted it. There would be no end to such statements. Besides, who has tested the 6D's AF and found it lacking? People are complaining before they can even try the camera.

You can't be serious?!
"Excel at Low Light performance"?
You actually believe that marketing bull***t?
Have you read what else Canon has to say about the 6D on their website?
They actually say stuff like, "with continuous shooting up to 4.5fps, you are ready to capture fast action".
That line was actually taken from their description:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_6d
Unless "fast action" is a Seniors' Walk-a-Thon, the 6D is not ready to capture jack.


My point is the talk about "excelling at Low Light performance" is most likely equally fabricated marketing hype.


And as far as the guy complaining about it, he is well within his right to do so if he is to plunck down his money for one. It always amazes me how people run to Canon's (or any other major company's) rescue when others complain about their subpar efforts. The guy has every right to complain about the 6D because in this day and age, it is a crap effort from a company that should know better. And as long as people just sit their and say nothing, Canon will continue to put out subpar equipment at overflated prices backed overhyped marketing. Every Canon camera put out this year was good but could have been a hell of a lot better for what they are charging. But the 6D is just plain crap. Period.

 

[RC]

Indeed, Canon will not care about some letter from a bunch of camera gear geeks like all of us here or elsewhere. Vote with you feet. I personally doubt that the 6D will sell very well. But I'm sure Canon has done their market research and have their reasons to believe that it is a good model for them to release as it is....

I don't give Canon's marketing as much credit as you do. I believe the 6D wouldn't even exist if the D600 didn't exist. My belief is Canon released what they could to salvage/maintain market share from the D600. I just don't see that this 6D was designed and spec'd with Canon's customers in mind.

 

[Peter Hill]

Last month I published an Open Letter to Canon Australia at http://www.redbubble.com/people/peterh111/journal/9263512-an-open-letter-to-canon-australia and put a link on their FB page. It wasn't about the 6D (you get what you pay for). It was about the fact that their website does not disclose any RRPs, that their arguments for not honouring Canon USA warranties (or Japan or UK or anywhere but Oz) were specious, that they won't sell much through their on-line store if they don't stock it with anything, and that it sucked big time that they did not offer any rebates, unlike Canon USA. Whilst I garnered much support and I felt much better for getting my gripe off my chest, it was a futile exercise.

 

[EOBeav]

I honestly think the 6D will be a very good FF camera.

A very good xD FF camera, or a very good xxxD FF camera? To me, it just looks like they've Rebelized the xD line.

 

[Zlatko]

with all the complains about canons 6D autofocus why is no website, that cares about canon in one way or the other, writing an open letter to canon... demanding a statement?

i mean.... dpreview wrote it´s a rather dissapointing camera and i have yet to read a preview that is not puzzled by the low-tech AF.

if we complain here in a forum .. canon cares a sh*t.

but if a popular and frequented website writes something and is not afraid to tell the truth... maybe canon will take notice and feel obligated to react?

or maybe it´s to late here and im just bored and tired.....

The 6D is supposed to excel at low-light autofocus. If you don't need that, then it probably wasn't built for you but rather for users who need that. If you have different needs for AF, Canon offers the 5D3 and 1DX. If none of those meet your needs, there are Nikon and Sony and others. Why complain that Canon isn't making the exact camera you want at the price you want at the time that you want it? No manufacturer can satisfy everyone. If Canon builds the exact camera that you want, then other potential buyers can rightfully "demand a statement" as to why Canon didn't build the camera that they wanted at the price that they wanted at the time that they wanted it. There would be no end to such statements. Besides, who has tested the 6D's AF and found it lacking? People are complaining before they can even try the camera.

You can't be serious?!
"Excel at Low Light performance"?
You actually believe that marketing bull***t?
Have you read what else Canon has to say about the 6D on their website?
They actually say stuff like, "with continuous shooting up to 4.5fps, you are ready to capture fast action".
That line was actually taken from their description:
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_6d
Unless "fast action" is a Seniors' Walk-a-Thon, the 6D is not ready to capture jack.

My point is the talk about "excelling at Low Light performance" is most likely equally fabricated marketing hype.

And as far as the guy complaining about it, he is well within his right to do so if he is to plunck down his money for one. It always amazes me how people run to Canon's (or any other major company's) rescue when others complain about their subpar efforts. The guy has every right to complain about the 6D because in this day and age, it is a crap effort from a company that should know better. And as long as people just sit their and say nothing, Canon will continue to put out subpar equipment at overflated prices backed overhyped marketing. Every Canon camera put out this year was good but could have been a hell of a lot better for what they are charging. But the 6D is just plain crap. Period.

Wow ... what an ultra-cynical point of view! You haven't even tried the camera and you're calling it "crap" and worse. Canon has released an ultra-low-light autofocus spec for the 6D and there is no reason to disbelieve it. Why would you disbelieve it -- other than having an ultra-cynical point of view?

And why don't you wait to try it before slamming the camera and the company that makes it? Oh yes, ... that would require just an ounce of fairness, which you can't seem to muster.

Of course, the 6D isn't going to please everybody. No camera can. If multi-cross-type autofocus is someone's priority, Canon offers it! You just have to pay for it. They're not obligated to put every feature they make in every camera they make.

Why do people feel entitled to the exact camera that they personally envision at the price that they want to pay? The fact that a camera does not meet your personal photographic needs at this moment does not mean it is "sub-par". Can you just imagine that it might be very well designed to meet someone else's photographic priorities, perhaps someone with a different photographic style or different subject matter? And if another company offers you the camera you need, then by all means buy it!

 

[Tayvin]

I think your time would be better spent building your own "Perfect Camera". I'm not trying to be rude, but do you read the comments on these types of sites? Half the people blogging are angry at everything and I don't think it has anything to do with Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc... The perfect camera body is not going to fix your life.

 

[M.ST]

I don´t understand why Canon put no CF card slot or a CF and a SD card slot in it.

That´s why a lot of 7D, 5D Mark II and 50D users are not willing to switch to the 6D.

 

[Hillsilly]

It was about the fact that their website does not disclose any RRPs...

Getting a little off topic, but its good to see a lot of authorised reps (such as Camerapro in Brisbane) list the 6D at $2199. The do say the price might change, but I think it bodes well. When you consider that price includes $200 GST, the underlying price is even cheaper than the US. Overall, local Canon pricing for camera bodies hasn't been shocking me as much as it used to.

Back on topic, I can't believe how much anger the 6D has generated. Peoples, its just a camera. It will probably work very well, even if it is uninspiring to many. There's plenty of other alternative cameras out there. You don't have to pin your hopes and aspirations on this one. If its not perfectly suited to your needs, don't buy it. The best way of getting your message across to Canon is for them to see all of their 6Ds gathering dust on the shelf while the D600 sells like hotcakes.

 

[verysimplejason]

I don´t understand why Canon put no CF card slot or a CF and a SD card slot in it.

That´s why a lot of 7D, 5D Mark II and 50D users are not willing to switch to the 6D.

6D is for rebel users who wants to go FF. 7D, 5D2 and 50D can go for 5D3, the upcoming 7D2 and the 70D. The choice is there though I admit not in the price range that we want.

 

[aj1575]

with all the complains about canons 6D autofocus why is no website, that cares about canon in one way or the other, writing an open letter to canon... demanding a statement?

i mean.... dpreview wrote it´s a rather dissapointing camera and i have yet to read a preview that is not puzzled by the low-tech AF.

if we complain here in a forum .. canon cares a sh*t.

but if a popular and frequented website writes something and is not afraid to tell the truth... maybe canon will take notice and feel obligated to react?

or maybe it´s to late here and im just bored and tired.....

Move on, buy a Nikon D600, and enjoy the greener grass on the other side....


...and then you will meet a guy who is focusing with its -3EV center AF-Point where the Nikon is completly blind. You can't have it all. I moslty use my center point only, since it is the best I've got, and it is the best way get in-Focus shoots with my old heavily used EOS 350D.

 

[pasghik]

Back on topic, I can't believe how much anger the 6D has generated. Peoples, its just a camera. It will probably work very well, even if it is uninspiring to many. There's plenty of other alternative cameras out there. You don't have to pin your hopes and aspirations on this one. If its not perfectly suited to your needs, don't buy it. The best way of getting your message across to Canon is for them to see all of their 6Ds gathering dust on the shelf while the D600 sells like hotcakes.

You see, people are invested in glass. Personally I want to switch to Nikon, even though it will cost me around €1500. Canon users had pretty clear needs. Canon instead of fullfilling them, just f*cks around.
They give with one hand, but take with other. Or they give with both hands but want us to sell our kidney to get it.

G-serie:
Needed: 10-12 MP, fast lens with moderate zoom, swivel screen.
Thy did 15mp with heavy noise at iso100, they did 7x zoom lens f/2,8-....
Canon has made all combinations except the right one. In he year 2012 they finally come to where they started - G3.

5Dmk2 needed a better AF. Instead of simply putting 5 X-points (center & 1/3 rule) they made 2 cameras.
One with same one-center-point AF - €500 more expensive, another with super-pro AF - €1700 more expensive. WTF?

 

[Hillsilly]

I agree. And I'm not reallly advocating a switch. I just think that if the 6D is a sales disaster then Canon will have to give some serious thought to where they went wrong. Although, realistically, I suspect it will be a sales success and the Canon execs will probably sit around slapping each other on their backs saying how awesome they (and the 6D) are.

 

[pasghik]

I agree. And I'm not reallly advocating a switch. I just think that if the 6D is a sales disaster then Canon will have to give some serious thought to where they went wrong. Although, realistically, I suspect it will be a sales success and the Canon execs will probably sit around slapping each other on their backs saying how awesome they (and the 6D) are.

Economically it will be good. That is the problem. Canon suck out money, that is the only thing they care.

Originally I wanted to get 60D after 350D. But compared to 50D they removed AF MA (very important thing to me), removed joystick, removed big wheel. So I basically had to get 7D which was €500 more expensive and almost same price as 5Dmk2 at that time. I got 5Dmk2. Now I am politely asked to go another €1500 higher to get 5Dmk3, because Canon is not willing to upgrade AF on €2000 FF cameras.

F*ck your customers is good business strategy, but not for a long time.
"I am so out of here."

 

[Hillsilly]

I've got an older 1Ds Mkii and was hoping that a 6D might be the next thing for me. I'll like the smaller size and the video capabilities. Higher ISOs, WiFi and GPS will also be fun to play with. But there are a few things that aren't quite as good. Just wish the decision was a bit easier.

 

[Canon-F1]

Originally I wanted to get 60D after 350D. But compared to 50D they removed AF MA (very important thing to me), removed joystick, removed big wheel. So I basically had to get 7D which was €500 more expensive and almost same price as 5Dmk2 at that time. I got 5Dmk2. Now I am politely asked to go another €1500 higher to get 5Dmk3, because Canon is not willing to upgrade AF on €2000 FF cameras.

yep that´s my problem with canon at the moment too.

looking at the 6D and the price tag of 2099 euro... i don´t see why they could not include an AF similiar to the 7D´s.

the 6D is not so expensive to manufacture (it´s just a FF 60D) and none of it´s features justify the price.
it´s because canon thinks they can charge that money.

and if they made that decision (crippling the AF) because they want to protect 5D MK3 sales.... why not giving the 5D MK3 the GPS and WIFI features?

that makes no real sense to me... ???
maybe canon thinks the 5D MK3 customers are more likely to buy the overpriced canon grips?

anyway... the 5D MK3 offers enough to differentiate it from the 6D.. even when the 6D has an AF similiar to the 7D.

or at least all AF points should be cross sensors.. is it that hard?

 

[aj1575]

...Although, realistically, I suspect it will be a sales success and the Canon execs will probably sit around slapping each other on their backs saying how awesome they (and the 6D) are.

If it becomes a sales success, then Canon did mostly right with the 6D. There will always be some people who had wished for another camera, or think that more should be included for the same price. But that is just the way it is.

 

[thebowtie]

We are all free to choose any manufacturer we want.
...
If you are saying people should cram their complaining, yeah, then I agree completely.

+1

 

[Canon-F1]

We are all free to choose any manufacturer we want.
...
If you are saying people should cram their complaining, yeah, then I agree completely.

+1

as if it is that easy.. : for guys with just a kit lens that is maybe the case.

but not for people who build a lens collection worth 5 figures.

 

[aj1575]

...
looking at the 6D and the price tag of 2099 euro... i don´t see why they could not include an AF similiar to the 7D´s.

the 6D is not so expensive to manufacture (it´s just a FF 60D) and none of it´s features justify the price.
it´s because canon thinks they can charge that money.

and if they made that decision (crippling the AF) because they want to protect 5D MK3 sales.... why not giving the 5D MK3 the GPS and WIFI features?

that makes no real sense to me... ???
maybe canon thinks the 5D MK3 customers are more likely to buy the overpriced canon grips?
...
or at least all AF points should be cross sensors.. is it that hard?

I know from other consumer products (I'm a mechanical engineer, desining stuff) how difficult it is to find a balance between features an price. So I would be very carefull to question Canons logic in the way they put features into a camera.

I'm sure you can't tell us how much the 7D AF costs, and how much the one in the 6D is, or what is the price for the GPS and WiFi integration. I know, your reaction will be, this is not expensive, there are SD-Cards with WiFi and every smartphone has GPS and so on. But there is a price tag on every feature that is included in a consumer product. The marketing sets a target price, and tells the engineering department in what features it must differ from the cameras above and below in the range.
Is the 6D therefore a rip-off at 2099$? No, because you got a camera that has features included that are worth 2099$
(Well actually they are worth much less, since the price of the camera includes much more than the cost of the pieces it is made of; R+D, manufacturing, logisitcs, marketing, profit (for Canon and the reseller) and so on).

What you can do, is complaining, that you would like to have other features, but then you also need to tell which of the existing ones you like to drop.

For the 6D this means for example, that if you like to have all cross type AF-Sensors, then you probably need to live without the -3EV in the middle, and have all -1EV. You weight up, what you do prefer.

 

[Canon-F1]

I know from other consumer products (I'm a mechanical engineer, desining stuff)

that´s nice. i am too.. was working for thyssen a few years. now im self employed.

Is the 6D therefore a rip-off at 2099$? No, because you got a camera that has features included that are worth 2099$

well i guess you can´t tell me what the manufacturing cost of the 6D is either?
so your guess is as good as mine.

my guess is based on the fact that the 60D sells for 950 euro (the 7D for 1200 euro) and i don´t see any feature that is worth 1150 euro more.

the FF sensor? :

and yes.. i say GPS and WIFI will not make manufacturing much more expensive.

canon is simply maximising profit.. that´s ok for canon to try... but don´t try to sell me the 6D as a bargain.

it´s like dpreview wrote:

Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark.