mhm... open letter to canon?

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I suspect 6D will be a super success.
I will not buy it but I know of lot of people around me who want an inexpensive full frame camera with good IQ.
They are casual photographers who want super quality for a super price without the 'bells and whistles'.
The world has far more 'casual' photographers who want value for money compared to photographers who want everything on their camera.
IMHO.
 
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sanj said:
I suspect 6D will be a super success.
I will not buy it but I know of lot of people around me who want an inexpensive full frame camera with good IQ.
They are casual photographers who want super quality for a super price without the 'bells and whistles'.
The world has far more 'casual' photographers who want value for money compared to photographers who want everything on their camera.
IMHO.

and from my experience they buy the even cheaper D600 like mad right now.

the problem for canon is they don´t exist in a vaccum.
 
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distant.star said:
bdunbar79 said:
This thread is absolutely the stupidest thread on this site currently active, and adds to the cesspool that most of the internet already is. This is embarassing for the site.

Geez, did someone steal your lunch money?

wonder why he participates in this thread so much then.... instead of taking pictures.... ::)
 
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Canon is doing just fine (for now). This internet furor over their inferior sensor will eventually prompt them to innovate, but the reason they look as bad is because the competitive tech from sonikon is simply too good. A life long Canon user, now I use D600... it just destroys my 5D3 in IQ, no question about it. The detail, tone, and color is far superior to 5D3 (in RAW as use jpegs only as preview).
 
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Gothmoth said:
distant.star said:
bdunbar79 said:
This thread is absolutely the stupidest thread on this site currently active, and adds to the cesspool that most of the internet already is. This is embarassing for the site.

Geez, did someone steal your lunch money?

wonder why he participates in this thread so much then.... instead of taking pictures.... ::)

Yeah, haha, I guess the 1200 I take every week with my CANON equipment isn't enough? There's always something wrong right? :P
 
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bdunbar79 said:
This thread is absolutely the stupidest thread on this site currently active, and adds to the cesspool that most of the internet already is. This is embarassing for the site.


Hmm interesting assumption since not only are you here, but you have commented several times. So what does that say about you? My point is not to insult you (as you have done to others by calling us stupid for being a part of this discussion) but to point out that any discussion and sharing of ideas cannot not be classified as stupid or a cesspool if we have learned something from each other or enjoy sharing our ideas or opinions with one another. Lighten up bro. We are just things off our chests. No harm in that. You don't like or want to be a part of that, don't join or read. No need to be insulting.
 
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Northstar said:
The thing that gets some people upset is when you've invested huge sums of money in the glass, and then they "hold back" on the camera. Can/Nik almost have a duopoly in terms of market share. I believe these two companies have 90% of the dslr market, so it's not like buying a car, or TV, or new golf clubs. Once you buy in with the glass, you hope that "your company" makes a tech leap or strives for excellence in some way so that you have a residual long term benefit.


Exactly my point and the reason why I feel I have the right to complain. I've given Canon literally over $70,000 in glass and various bodies during my 6 years as a professional shooter and it pisses me off that I'm now locked into a system that doesn't deliver the goods. To add insult to injury is the fact that they are more than capable and appear to be doing it on purpose to maximize profits. When people say why don't you just switch or buy something else, I say sure, ask Canon to reimburse my $70,000 and then I'll consider spending it elsewhere and probably get more back for my buck. Otherwise I have every right to complain about a company that doesn't deliver products that maximize the investment I've already made with them.
 
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poias said:
Canon is doing just fine (for now). This internet furor over their inferior sensor will eventually prompt them to innovate, but the reason they look as bad is because the competitive tech from sonikon is simply too good. A life long Canon user, now I use D600... it just destroys my 5D3 in IQ, no question about it. The detail, tone, and color is far superior to 5D3 (in RAW as use jpegs only as preview).

"Destroys" ....let's not be dramatic...."slightly better" is more accurate.
 
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7enderbender said:
Indeed, Canon will not care about some letter from a bunch of camera gear geeks like all of us here or elsewhere. Vote with you feet. I personally doubt that the 6D will sell very well. But I'm sure Canon has done their market research and have their reasons to believe that it is a good model for them to release as it is. Maybe it's just there to drive the sales of other models. I really don't know. There is not enough detail in their financial statements to fully figure it out - or at least I couldn't the last time I looked at their data -yes, I'm really geekish enough to actually do such a thing; I do, however, draw the line at specialized industry market research reports that you can buy for big chunks of money...

Canon (and very few others) has a fascinating business model in a very difficult environment that has dramatically changed over the last decade and a half. They have done many many things right and at the right time. The fact that they still exist is somewhat of a miracle and attests to the fact that their marketing folks are as savvy as their developers at least.

By the way: the next industry changing wave of disruptive innovation is well underway. And it may be more difficult for Canon and Nikon then the digital revolution. With the capabilities of iPhones and such the market for P&S cameras and even entry level DSLRs may shrink. That's a problem because for these companies that's where the money is - not counting Canon's "professional" (non-camera related) business line or Nikon's medical devices, etc.

So instead of whining and complaining about this, that and the other we should be glad that we still have options. I could see a future where professional grade cameras might be very expensive items for a small market segment. Think Leica's business model. This kind of stuff has happened in other sectors. I'm thinking of professional audio equipment for instance. While a lot of things have become digital and dirt cheap - and surprisingly good, other high grade pieces of gear have become very very expensive for those who need it or think they need it. Or try finding a real watch maker these days. Mechanical watches have become a pure luxury item and the handful of people who can service them charge an arm and a leg.

If we are moving into a direction where large(r) format SLRs or beyond become considered obsolete by the vast majority of users you are going to end up paying dearly to the few specialized manufactures who still make this for you.

+1. Best post in this thread. Thank you for your thoughts.
 
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sanj said:
I suspect 6D will be a super success.
I will not buy it but I know of lot of people around me who want an inexpensive full frame camera with good IQ.
They are casual photographers who want super quality for a super price without the 'bells and whistles'.
The world has far more 'casual' photographers who want value for money compared to photographers who want everything on their camera.
IMHO.

Well, it remains to be seen if the 6D will be perceived as good value for money.

Basic, consumer-level specs ... for $2099 ... is not good value for money in my book.

The thing is, even if the 6D drops to $1500, I'll still have my doubts.
The basic AF system on the 6D is certainly not confidence inspiring.
And what good is a gorgeous FF sensor on a camera that can't focus.
That's my view of things.
 
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Canon-F1 said:

http://www.petapixel.com/2012/10/10/did-canons-sensor-quality-regress-in-its-entry-level-dslrs/ - According to camera testing service DxOMark..."
http://fstoppers.com/canon-650d-rates-worse-than-previous-models - " A new comparison test conducted by DXO Mark...."

Will we finally read on dxo site?:
"We were interested how 1dx sensor will behave in comparison to those in 1d4 and 1ds3. Unfortunately, the new sensor in canon's top model is worse in every aspect..."

The discussion about the tests conducted by dxo are here everywhere. First canon vs nikon, later canon sensors vs sony sensors and finally canon defenders vs dxo. Neverending story...
 
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neuroanatomist said:
pz-photography said:
It was accurate and really fast! there is not that much light at the canon booth and they had not the fastest lens on it (24-105 4.0) and even in that conditions it was totally accurate... It's a completely diffrent system then the 5D II or 60D, so it doesn't matter if its 1 cross/dualcross/wtfcrosspoint or 10 or 100. It works absolutely fine! So STOP COMPLANING until you had the camera in your hands, took it into dark environment and experienced something completely diffrent!

What looks spot on when reviewing on the LCD is often OOF when reviewing on a monitor during post. 'Totally accurate' with the deep DoF of an f/4 lens is not the same as totally accurate with the razor-thin DoF of an f/1.2 lens and a close subject. How was the AI Servo tracking performance?

I'm not complaining, just suggesting that the jury is still out, and 20 minutes with a camera at a trade show does is not sufficient for a thorough test.

I also played around with the 6d at the photokina, i was really amazed too and ALSO with the 24-70 f/2.8 it was fast and sharp! Sharper and faster AF then on my 7D, i have to say... i loved it! I just want to know if the IQ and noise level is as good as the 5d3 if that is true, i buy the 6D i have a 19AF crosspoints and i sometimes are disapointed in difficult details that it is not that sharp because of the crosstype. Crosstype is not always better....
The only thing that i can say, it was fast, accurate (zoomed in on the LCD, yes not a monitor i know) i really loved it, and the 1/4000... well then use your ISO at 50.... then you would have the same exposure....

The only things i am going to miss is... joystick, CF cards and the depth knob...
well... miss i think i will use it as a backup body and wildlife.
 
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EvillEmperor said:
Haha you guys who were complaining were dumb! The 6D's one AF point is absolutely amazing I heard! Have a little faith in the company, jeez!

Amazing? No, The 5D3 AF was amazing the moment I used it. The 6D AF felt like a re-gurdgetated 20D AF with a better center point. Which is the entire problem, The center point is excellent.
 
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Gothmoth said:
to be honest, i like to see a website raise uncomfortable questions.

but today it´s all nice "blahblah".

when a website is lucky enough to get an interview, it looks like they do everthing to keep the manager comfortable.

the result is an interview that is nothing more then boring PR.
cheap advertising for the companys.

when have you read an interview with a canon manager where the interviewer asked question you would ask?


Just like a lot of crap bands and movie coverage...possibly too frightened of losing their ability to get hands on testing the goods to have write-ups to beat their market companions...(ie the companies controlling access to their products for only those that are willing to kiss ass!) ;)
 
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