Military Aircraft: airshows, operational, whatever, lets see what you have!
- Thread starter Viper28
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Hi Erik.
Never 'just an old Spitfire,' perhaps 'an old Spitfire.' This one is a Spitfire LF Mk. XVIe and according to what I have just read pretty lucky to have made it back to the air, listed as 'one of, if not the most protracted Spitfire restorations ever.'
As per usual Erik a stunning series of shots with beautiful detail and excellent framing giving a real sense of the action.
Just having another look at 9019 and it struck me how distorted the wing skins look, I don't recall ever thinking that of any other Spitfire, perhaps she has more original skin than most or perhaps there is some other reason?
Cheers, Graham.
Never 'just an old Spitfire,' perhaps 'an old Spitfire.' This one is a Spitfire LF Mk. XVIe and according to what I have just read pretty lucky to have made it back to the air, listed as 'one of, if not the most protracted Spitfire restorations ever.'
As per usual Erik a stunning series of shots with beautiful detail and excellent framing giving a real sense of the action.
Just having another look at 9019 and it struck me how distorted the wing skins look, I don't recall ever thinking that of any other Spitfire, perhaps she has more original skin than most or perhaps there is some other reason?
Cheers, Graham.
Erik X said:
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Valvebounce said:
+1
Again a stunning series Erik! These were magnificent flying machines, absolutely not "just a spitfire"... Pity you can't hear the sound of that V12 Merlin engine in the photo's
cheers, Wiebe.
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Hi Nat.
So true about the Merlin sound, I'm lucky to live in an area often frequented by Spitfires as there is a Spitfire restoration company close by (I think they test fly them from there) plus we have beautiful scenery and the Spitfire pilots seem to like to fly round our Island so I often hear Merlin / Griffon engines flying around.
I'm also going to the Bournemouth Air Festival and hope to see and hear many Spitfires, then the weekend after that I am going to Goodwood and hope to see and hear many Spitfires there too, although the flying display has been somewhat neutered following the tragic Hawker Hunter crash at Shoreham.
Also I'm sure Erik knew it is not 'Just!'
Plus I think they are (not were) magnificent flying machines.
Cheers, Graham.
So true about the Merlin sound, I'm lucky to live in an area often frequented by Spitfires as there is a Spitfire restoration company close by (I think they test fly them from there) plus we have beautiful scenery and the Spitfire pilots seem to like to fly round our Island so I often hear Merlin / Griffon engines flying around.
I'm also going to the Bournemouth Air Festival and hope to see and hear many Spitfires, then the weekend after that I am going to Goodwood and hope to see and hear many Spitfires there too, although the flying display has been somewhat neutered following the tragic Hawker Hunter crash at Shoreham.
Also I'm sure Erik knew it is not 'Just!'
Plus I think they are (not were) magnificent flying machines. Cheers, Graham.
Nat_WA said:Valvebounce said:
+1
Again a stunning series Erik! These were magnificent flying machines, absolutely not "just a spitfire"... Pity you can't hear the sound of that V12 Merlin engine in the photo's
cheers, Wiebe.
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Thanks Roo, Click, Graham and Wiebe
""Also I'm sure Erik knew it is not 'Just!' Plus I think they are (not were) magnificent flying machines. ""
Absolutely, we only have one Spitfire around and it is the highlight of the season to watch it fly.. The engine sound is worth the entrance fee alone
Regarding the wrinkled wing skin, I did some research (see pictures below). Underside looks perfectly smooth but there are obviously some small defects on the upper side of both wings. Pär is flying aerobatics in a very smooth style but you will still need to apply a few 'g' to get around a loop so it is possible that some of the wrinkles in picture 9019 are caused by the load factor. Or maybe they are just caused by age and light conditions? ??? The glossy paint probably reveals more defects that the original matte paint (glossy paint would probably have caused a Me109 to stick at your tail during the war..) . Biltema is using their airplanes for marketing of car wax, that could possibly explain the glossy finish. Plus it looks better at airshows and is easier to keep clean.. 8)
""Also I'm sure Erik knew it is not 'Just!'
Plus I think they are (not were) magnificent flying machines. ""Absolutely, we only have one Spitfire around and it is the highlight of the season to watch it fly.. The engine sound is worth the entrance fee alone
Regarding the wrinkled wing skin, I did some research (see pictures below). Underside looks perfectly smooth but there are obviously some small defects on the upper side of both wings. Pär is flying aerobatics in a very smooth style but you will still need to apply a few 'g' to get around a loop so it is possible that some of the wrinkles in picture 9019 are caused by the load factor. Or maybe they are just caused by age and light conditions? ??? The glossy paint probably reveals more defects that the original matte paint (glossy paint would probably have caused a Me109 to stick at your tail during the war..) . Biltema is using their airplanes for marketing of car wax, that could possibly explain the glossy finish. Plus it looks better at airshows and is easier to keep clean.. 8)
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Well there are other aircrafts to watch at the airshows also.. de Havilland Tiger Moth for example.
Used as trainer in the Swedish air force 1932-57, the paint scheme was spectacular :
Used as trainer in the Swedish air force 1932-57, the paint scheme was spectacular :
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On a side note...one of my friends here is building his own full size replica Spitfire in a Tr9 variant. Interestingly he's using a full wood construction with same techniques used in making the Mosquito (plywood sandwich). Unfortunately it won't be Merlin powered as they are now too rare and expensive but it will be Allison V12 powered. It's well under way but still a few years away from completion.
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Valvebounce said:...
Plus I think they are (not were) magnificent flying machines.
Cheers, Graham.
So true ... Their "working" days may be over but the remaining flying machines are indeed magnificent. My mistake
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Erik X said:Well there are other aircrafts to watch at the airshows also.. de Havilland Tiger Moth for example.
Used as trainer in the Swedish air force 1932-57, the paint scheme was spectacular :
Hi Erik,
... not really camouflage paint is it
Paint scheme on the 4th and 5th is coming out real well, but I like the 3rd picture even more with the plane flying against the dark clouds!
cheers, Wiebe
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Hi Click.
No doubt I shall post some pictures, my problem is people like Erik setting the bar so b|%€¥ high!
Hi Erik.
Two more fine sets, it must have been bright to get to use 1/400th f13 at ISO 200 on the Spitfire shot!
Hi Nat.
Not the worst mistake made and I'm not perfect by a long shot, just ask the misses! : ;D
Hi Roo.
That sounds cool, I was going to say a Spitfire on a budget, but I bet it is not cheap even without counting the hours invested!
Cheers, Graham.
No doubt I shall post some pictures, my problem is people like Erik setting the bar so b|%€¥ high!
Hi Erik.
Two more fine sets, it must have been bright to get to use 1/400th f13 at ISO 200 on the Spitfire shot!
Hi Nat.
Not the worst mistake made and I'm not perfect by a long shot, just ask the misses! :
;DHi Roo.
That sounds cool, I was going to say a Spitfire on a budget, but I bet it is not cheap even without counting the hours invested!
Cheers, Graham.
Click said:You're a lucky guy, Graham.
I'm looking forward to seeing your pictures.
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Thanks Click and Nat. The anti-camouflage was probably intended to reduce the risk for collisions between pilot students... I think it might do the job!
Thanks Graham
> it must have been bright to get to use 1/400th f13 at ISO 200 on the Spitfire shot!
Actually I am trying to get the full prop discs the experts here talk about but then I end up with perfectly blurred pictures
Have not yet converted to using Tv as someone proposed so I still use Av but reduce iso and adjust aperture so the exposure ends up somewhere between 1/400 and 1/650s. But it is simply too stressful to do that while trying to track and lock focus on airplanes : 95% of my pictures are already blurred and if I go for full discs, 100% will be crap
Anyway, here are some other common airplanes form the Eksjö airshow. You probably see lots of them every day (irony!) ;D http://broairshow.se/index.html
deHavilland Puss Moth (is the British Green color possibly intended as camouflage??)
Bücker Bu 133 Jungmeister (it is the biplane with radial engine and a maltese cross on the side)
Bücker Jungmann (the other biplane)
Thanks Graham
> it must have been bright to get to use 1/400th f13 at ISO 200 on the Spitfire shot!
Actually I am trying to get the full prop discs the experts here talk about but then I end up with perfectly blurred pictures
Have not yet converted to using Tv as someone proposed so I still use Av but reduce iso and adjust aperture so the exposure ends up somewhere between 1/400 and 1/650s. But it is simply too stressful to do that while trying to track and lock focus on airplanes : 95% of my pictures are already blurred and if I go for full discs, 100% will be crap Anyway, here are some other common airplanes form the Eksjö airshow. You probably see lots of them every day (irony!) ;D http://broairshow.se/index.html
deHavilland Puss Moth (is the British Green color possibly intended as camouflage??)
Bücker Bu 133 Jungmeister (it is the biplane with radial engine and a maltese cross on the side)
Bücker Jungmann (the other biplane)
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Erik X said:Thanks Click and Nat. The anti-camouflage was probably intended to reduce the risk for collisions between pilot students... I think it might do the job!
Thanks Graham
> it must have been bright to get to use 1/400th f13 at ISO 200 on the Spitfire shot!
Actually I am trying to get the full prop discs the experts here talk about but then I end up with perfectly blurred pictures
Anyway, here are some other common airplanes form the Eksjö airshow. You probably see lots of them every day (irony!) ;D http://broairshow.se/index.html
deHavilland Puss Moth (is the British Green color possibly intended as camouflage??)
Bücker Bu 133 Jungmeister (it is the biplane with radial engine and a maltese cross on the side)
Bücker Jungmann (the other biplane)
Hi Erik,
again some nice shots, I especially like the 4th, of the Bu133 approaching - as if you are in the air above the plane (sadly I presume it was in a dive though
)Thumbs up, keep on posting!
cheers, Wiebe
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Hi Erik.
Another fine set of shots, I think some prop blur is sufficient to convey that it is not a model hanging on a string!
Plus at nearly 400mm you were pretty much at the reciprocal on the shutter speed, though that lens has a pretty good IS system. I will second the suggestion that selecting Tv is an easier way to get the shutter speed set, also if it is possible on your camera you can set one of the back buttons to a something like 1/200th(or slower), ISO100, Tv, AF enabled set the mode points etc then while you hold that button you will have prop disc possibility, let go and use your normal method and you have sharp shots. Just a thought, and something I discovered on my 1DsIII at Goodwood Members Meeting in March this year, I think I have just cracked setting it on my 7DII and I intend to use both cameras with settings similar to my explanation programmed to the * button for both the Bournemouth Air Festival and the Goodwood Revival.
Sadly I don't see many other classic aircraft flying around, I was nearly "buzzed" by a Texan flying quite low (without doubt higher than the minimum permissible altitude) over the local cliffs while I was stood at the bottom! ;D ;D but that was last year.
I know the feeling of not being willing to risk the few good shots just for artistic effect, I like jets for photography, no need to worry about prop discs and they usually carry enough speed for any included background to be blurred with the pan! I don't like most jets for their lack of soul when compared to propeller planes.
Cheers, Graham.
Edit.
I have just looked at the 5DIII manual and it looks like the setting is not available via the method I suggested but it would be possible to assign C1-C3 with the desired settings (and many more options too), it means spinning the dial and remembering to spin it back is where this breaks down for me!
Another fine set of shots, I think some prop blur is sufficient to convey that it is not a model hanging on a string!
Plus at nearly 400mm you were pretty much at the reciprocal on the shutter speed, though that lens has a pretty good IS system. I will second the suggestion that selecting Tv is an easier way to get the shutter speed set, also if it is possible on your camera you can set one of the back buttons to a something like 1/200th(or slower), ISO100, Tv, AF enabled set the mode points etc then while you hold that button you will have prop disc possibility, let go and use your normal method and you have sharp shots. Just a thought, and something I discovered on my 1DsIII at Goodwood Members Meeting in March this year, I think I have just cracked setting it on my 7DII and I intend to use both cameras with settings similar to my explanation programmed to the * button for both the Bournemouth Air Festival and the Goodwood Revival.
Sadly I don't see many other classic aircraft flying around, I was nearly "buzzed" by a Texan flying quite low (without doubt higher than the minimum permissible altitude) over the local cliffs while I was stood at the bottom! ;D ;D but that was last year.
I know the feeling of not being willing to risk the few good shots just for artistic effect, I like jets for photography, no need to worry about prop discs and they usually carry enough speed for any included background to be blurred with the pan! I don't like most jets for their lack of soul when compared to propeller planes.
Cheers, Graham.
Edit.
I have just looked at the 5DIII manual and it looks like the setting is not available via the method I suggested but it would be possible to assign C1-C3 with the desired settings (and many more options too), it means spinning the dial and remembering to spin it back is where this breaks down for me!
Erik X said:Thanks Click and Nat. The anti-camouflage was probably intended to reduce the risk for collisions between pilot students... I think it might do the job!
Thanks Graham
> it must have been bright to get to use 1/400th f13 at ISO 200 on the Spitfire shot!
Actually I am trying to get the full prop discs the experts here talk about but then I end up with perfectly blurred pictures
Anyway, here are some other common airplanes form the Eksjö airshow. You probably see lots of them every day (irony!) ;D http://broairshow.se/index.html
deHavilland Puss Moth (is the British Green color possibly intended as camouflage??)
Bücker Bu 133 Jungmeister (it is the biplane with radial engine and a maltese cross on the side)
Bücker Jungmann (the other biplane)
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Erik X said:Thanks Click and Nat. The anti-camouflage was probably intended to reduce the risk for collisions between pilot students... I think it might do the job!
Thanks Graham
> it must have been bright to get to use 1/400th f13 at ISO 200 on the Spitfire shot!
Actually I am trying to get the full prop discs the experts here talk about but then I end up with perfectly blurred pictures
Anyway, here are some other common airplanes form the Eksjö airshow. You probably see lots of them every day (irony!) ;D http://broairshow.se/index.html
deHavilland Puss Moth (is the British Green color possibly intended as camouflage??)
Bücker Bu 133 Jungmeister (it is the biplane with radial engine and a maltese cross on the side)
Bücker Jungmann (the other biplane)
I tend to use TV mode because the aperture is not as critical due to the distances we are from the planes in flight. On really bright days I'll tend to add a CPL just so I can get the shutter speed slow enough without blowing out the image. You can throw in auto ISO which will allow you to just adjust your shutter speed to suit the prop blur you want and concentrate on tracking your subject
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Thanks Wiebe, I'm kind of grounded these days so my only option is to catch planes when they are diving or turning.. 
Thanks Graham and Roo for all advices
There are two more airshows here before the season end so I'm going to try Tv mode as you suggest. Then I think I need to spend some time reading the manual 8) Last time I did, I discovered the 'safety shift' mode which more or less revolutionized bird and airshow photography in Av mode. When enabled, the camera steps down ISO temporarily if the shutter speed hits the shortest possible time so that feature saves a lot of overexposed pictures.. But why on earth did the Canon software people chose such a cryptic name?
My main problem is something else, the IS of the EF100-400L2 is simply fantastic.. for seagulls and WW1 fighter planes that is.. But when I track a Spitfire or a jet, the horisontal stabilisation simply quits since it can not handle the yaw rate.. and when the pilot pulls up for a loop, the vertical stabilisation does the same So then there is no IS at all.. I wish that the Canon engineers had implemented a low-gain mode instead, which could ignore panning at constant speed and just compensate for shakes. But no.
I have not figured out if the piezo gyros saturate or if the moving lens hits the mechanical stops.. If it is the latter, I guess that IS mode 3 would work better but it seems not..
Anyway, now I'm experimenting with adding 'inertia' to the camera instead; if I have the tripod attached and align the ball joint to 90°, I can have the extended tripod legs resting on my shoulder, that will spread out the mass so I get kind of 'flywheel' action. It seems to work pretty well, the only thing I'm worried about is that I may knock down spectators and photographers standing behind me.. Maybe a red flag at the end of the legs would solve that problem? To be continued..
Anyway, short shutter time allows studies of how smoke puffs form under a Saab Safir. It would not be possible at 1/100s ;D
Thanks Graham and Roo for all advices
There are two more airshows here before the season end so I'm going to try Tv mode as you suggest. Then I think I need to spend some time reading the manual 8) Last time I did, I discovered the 'safety shift' mode which more or less revolutionized bird and airshow photography in Av mode. When enabled, the camera steps down ISO temporarily if the shutter speed hits the shortest possible time so that feature saves a lot of overexposed pictures.. But why on earth did the Canon software people chose such a cryptic name?
My main problem is something else, the IS of the EF100-400L2 is simply fantastic.. for seagulls and WW1 fighter planes that is.. But when I track a Spitfire or a jet, the horisontal stabilisation simply quits since it can not handle the yaw rate.. and when the pilot pulls up for a loop, the vertical stabilisation does the same
So then there is no IS at all.. I wish that the Canon engineers had implemented a low-gain mode instead, which could ignore panning at constant speed and just compensate for shakes. But no.I have not figured out if the piezo gyros saturate or if the moving lens hits the mechanical stops.. If it is the latter, I guess that IS mode 3 would work better but it seems not..
Anyway, now I'm experimenting with adding 'inertia' to the camera instead; if I have the tripod attached and align the ball joint to 90°, I can have the extended tripod legs resting on my shoulder, that will spread out the mass so I get kind of 'flywheel' action. It seems to work pretty well, the only thing I'm worried about is that I may knock down spectators and photographers standing behind me.. Maybe a red flag at the end of the legs would solve that problem? To be continued..
Anyway, short shutter time allows studies of how smoke puffs form under a Saab Safir. It would not be possible at 1/100s ;D
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