More Big Megapixel Talk

[moreorless]

If you want mirror less "SLR" now you can buy one of the Sony Alpha cameras.

Not quite.
You still get a semitranslucent mirror, though stationary, but worse; Sony Alpha still uses off-sensor focusing.
The reasons why future high IQ cameras should be mirrorless is to achieve accurate image sensor focus, and to avoid SLR mirror vibrations.

Theres nothing to stop this in current generation FF SLR's, the mirror can be flipped up and on sensor focusing used.

The reality is that on sensor AF still lags well behind phase AF in speed and tracking ability while EVF tech is still(and likely never will be) the equal of an OVF in realism aswell as being a power drain.

Personally as mostly a landscape shooter who generally uses wide/normal focal lenghts I would be intersted in a FF mirrorless for the size advanatge but the benefits seem much more questionable for other users. Thats I'd guess part of the reason we havent seen one outside of a Leica appear yet, FF sensored cameras are already a niche market so sticking with SLRs you appeal to both the landscape/studio users and action users, alot of the former likely still shoot some of the latter aswell so the extra bulk isnt totally wasted on them.

 

[swrightgfx]

What mount would a FF mirrorless use, anyway? The only Canon mount that will work would be the EF mount, as it is the only one that would provide a large enough image circle; however, in order to have it focus, you'd need to maintain the existing flange focal distance, which would also do away with any hope of maintaining a compact form factor anywhere similar to the EOS-M (not to mention the lenses would dwarf the camera itself).

As I have said before (see below), a high-megapixel square "APS-H" 28x28mm sensor rangefinder would provide a good mirrorless solution fr the pro user.

Hey if we are gonna dream, how about we make that sensor square too?! Then we are really cooking

I'll buy that.

While the EF mount can accommodate a much larger image circle than most EF lenses currently provide, using a square sensor would indeed only be possible with APS-H and not full-frame, without users having to invest in new glass. The image circle for "APS-H" 28x28 would equate to ~40mm, while square "full frame" 36x36 would require ~50mm (which would only allow for TS-E lenses to be used without severe vignette).

The key point, though, is that both would most likely need to be mirrorless to provide enough lens clearance and maintain infinity.

What about a "Square APS-H" rangefinder targeted to plug the mirrorless gap for professionals?

 

[Bengt Nyman]

Theres nothing to stop this in current generation FF SLR's, the mirror can be flipped up and on sensor focusing used.

Agreed.
And we do that when we have to, but it's blind, tedious and useful mostly on tripod for stationary subjects.
I would like to be able to get the same results while viewing and without a tripod.
The solution to my needs is not necessarily an ultimate sports camera with hyper fast focus tracking, it's more of a high IQ handheld National Geographics camera.
I fully trust that the Cmos industry is capable of producing exact on-sensor focus fast enough for general use. I also believe that we will shortly see implementations of optically magnified live view that rival the old optical viewers. I will gladly trade the clarity of the slapping mirror for a magnified live view with exposure preview, dynamic range preview and focus highlight.

 

[CanonFanBoy]

I really hope Canon is not heading towards the wrong direction in this MegaPix war with Nikon ... this round, the competition is not about the number of pixels but the quality of the pixels that put the D800 spreading like wild fire in the market place! Nikon has created a new niche this time .... for giving photographers medium format image quality with a DSLR body and price that took the market by storm!

So, whatever Canon is coming out soon, make sure it is not about packing another few more megapix in the same old silicon die to fool the market .... in order to lead in the Professional and Enthusiast segment again, Canon needs to do something really major to improve on its senor technology especially in terms of Dynamic Range (16stops), Colour Depth (16bits) and Noise ... I hope Canon don't miss the boat, this round!!!!

 

[Bengt Nyman]

It is not about the number of pixels but the quality of the pixels that put the D800 spreading like wild fire in the market place! Nikon has created a new niche this time ... I hope Canon don't miss the boat, this round!

The credit goes to Sony, who developed the Nikon D800(E) image sensor. This Sony-Nikon agreement will soon allow the same technology will become available to others.
The big difference in shooting a D800 versus any other FF camera is the D800's depth of detail which eliminates the need to frame tightly using a fuzzy zoom lens and instead allows shooting wider frames with the very best primes. The post cropped image then offers the very best in both detail depth and lens sharpness.
Unfortunately the Nikon D800 focusing problems are taking the edge off Nikon's success with the D800.
Sony themselves, Leica and Hasselblad are jumping on the bandwagon and are also likely to reap great benefits from this Sony high MP technology.

 

[JR]

It is not about the number of pixels but the quality of the pixels that put the D800 spreading like wild fire in the market place! Nikon has created a new niche this time ... I hope Canon don't miss the boat, this round!

The credit goes to Sony, who developed the Nikon D800(E) image sensor. This Sony-Nikon agreement will soon allow the same technology will become available to others.
The big difference in shooting a D800 versus any other FF camera is the D800's depth of detail which eliminates the need to frame tightly using a fuzzy zoom lens and instead allows shooting wider frames with the very best primes. The post cropped image then offers the very best in both detail depth and lens sharpness.
Unfortunately the Nikon D800 focusing problems are taking the edge off Nikon's success with the D800.
Sony themselves, Leica and Hasselblad are jumping on the bandwagon and are also likely to reap great benefits from this Sony high MP technology.

I agree. Sometime I am amazed of what I can find cropping the D800 image taken with a 35mm lens for example. Almost like an image within an image. I get the wide angle view and can crop to zoom equivalent on the face to create close up from the same file. On a few occasion it allowed me a great close-up I could not have done so...

 

[paulrossjones]

I keep hearing mirrorless. Does anyone want a mirrorless camera like that? Why would yu spend that kind of money on a mirrorless camera? What pro wants to be looking through the LCD?

I don't mean this in an insulting way, but why would canon make a billion dollar mirrorless?

The Single Lens Reflex was the solution to the viewfinder problem in interchangeable lens FILM cameras. The only reason it sticks around is a combination of tradition and conservatism. It is a solution to a rapidly vanishing problem.

Remember that before the SLR, the vast majority of interchangeable lens cameras were viewfinder types. The viewfinder was good for only one focal length; once you changed lenses, either you needed a separate viewfinder or a corrective optic that you looked through. Both solutions were unsatisfactory (and suffered from parallax), but it was all we had before the SLR. The only other styles were of course the view camera (where the SLR idea came from I imagine) and the TLR (where you had two lenses, and hence twice the cost).

Today, there is no need to look through the lens when the sensor can provide a perfect view to an electronic viewfinder.

You might still want a shutter curtain (doing it electronically isn't always the best answer), but there is no reason that a shutter couldn't still be there, it would just reverse the operation. Push the capture button and the curtain closes, then reopens to see the view again.

I for one would consider a FF mirrorless to replace my 5D3 in due course, provided it has all the same capabilities (particularly the high ISO and frame rate).

when im on film shoots, the DPs seem to always complain about lag/latency problems, and missing the real view they had with optical finders. this is with arri alexis- and they have full hd evfs, possibly the best quality. this is why arri is releasing a optical view finder digital camera soon.
these problems will exist for a while until technology catches up.


as for 40mp in a 1dx body- bring it on. charge more if you have to, and improve the low end noise to the level of the d800, and i wont have to change systems.

paul

 

[Bengt Nyman]

when im on film shoots, the DPs seem to always complain about lag/latency problems, and missing the real view they had with optical finders. paul

Hi Paul,
Good info. How much of a time lag are we talking about ?
Enough to upset a portrait, dull a circus act, or miss a passing race car ?

 

[Bengt Nyman]

Sony announces new mirrorless image sensor technology with PD autofocus pixels on the image sensor. Possibly part of a two step process with fast PD autofocus before final accurate CD microfocus, both on the image sensor. 2012 is going to be a banner year for mirrorless photography innovation at the top.

 

[Bengt Nyman]

I was hoping that Hasselblad would introduce something new 2012, like they have been boosting about. Though the H5D is new to Hasselblad, the technology and capability only represents a new model year. A $ 6,000 body price would get my attention but my dealer reports $ 10,000.
The only affordable megapixel is still the Nikon D800, severely tarnished by it's focusing problems and Nikon's failure to admit and inform.
However, I welcome the Sony RX1: Though only 24 MP, this mirrorless FF with a fixed MF-AF Zeiss 35 and optional EVF-OVF could be the trick on the street.

 

[Bengt Nyman]

Breaking: Hasselblad will release a high-end mirrorless camera | Photo Rumors

 

[bdunbar79]

Speaking of the D800, is it true in Nikon cameras, when you are in auto ISO, you can still do EC? I heard this, but wasn't sure. That would be incredibly useful. However, the Nikon cameras do not have the high ISO performance I need, so that purchasing is a moot point, but was just curious on the EC point. Thanks.

 

[Bengt Nyman]

Speaking of the D800, is it true in Nikon cameras, when you are in auto ISO, you can still do EC?

You can do EC (Exposure Compensation) in both manual ISO and auto ISO. Auto ISO does not alter your exposure (ISO+aperture setting+exposure time) it only tries to optimize ISO for the exposure that you or the camera have selected, be it a compensated exposure or not.
You would normally not select auto ISO (or EC) in full manual mode since it would rob you of full control.

 

[bdunbar79]

Speaking of the D800, is it true in Nikon cameras, when you are in auto ISO, you can still do EC?

You can do EC (Exposure Compensation) in both manual ISO and auto ISO. Auto ISO does not alter your exposure (ISO+aperture setting+exposure time) it only tries to optimize ISO for the exposure that you or the camera have selected, be it a compensated exposure or not.
You would normally not select auto ISO (or EC) in full manual mode since it would rob you of full control.

Thanks,

Most cases, no you wouldn't. But in the lighting situations I shoot in with sports, auto ISO with EC +2/3 would be very, very useful, especially at night football or night soccer where one team has white jerseys. The lighting changes across the field way too much at night, even just when players turn a different direction. I'm not saying you can't shoot in those situations accurately, it's just it would be very useful if you could do it that way. You then just worry about shutter speed and depth of field. Just curious why Nikon can do it but Canon can't.

 

[dolgachov]

all i really need from canon is 1Ds Mark 4 to replace my ages old Mark 3. i really love the usability of Canon, but 21Mp is way too low resolution, so i'm forced to use H4D as a main camera and old 1Ds as a second one.

please bring me 28-36 Mp 1Ds with decent ISO range and i don't care if it will cost another 10.000 USD.

 

[SJTstudios]

How many people are there who actually need 8FPS in a 40MP camera?

A lot would love it, but it wouldn't work. A processor that could do that is way beyond our limits.
It will be more like 4. Because if you did an 8 fps burst, it would start buffering after about 2 seconds.

 

[Bengt Nyman]

Just curious why Nikon can do it but Canon can't.

Hi bdunbar 79
Why do you say that Canon can't ? Maybe I didn't understand your question.