More Canon EOS-1D X Mark II Talk [CR2]

[Ozarker]

Canon would be silly not to make it dual CFast. That would support 4K and prolonged high fps bursts. So what if CFast is expensive? I'm sure anyone with the funds to preorder a 1D X Mark II can afford it.

This. Its like a guy who buys a Bentley... he doesn't sweat the price of gasoline.

 

[Ozarker]

If the 1Dx M2 has Cfast, look to find lots of used fast CF cards on the market.

BTW, much fast is CFast vs an Sandisk Extreme Pro on writes?

CFast can get very very fast The Fastest Memory Cards Money Can Buy

Good post. Thanks!

 

[Don Haines]

And forum users will complain about whatever specs the camera has and those who shoot with the camera will say WOW!!!!!..... just like the 5D3..... and the 7D2...... and the 6D...... and so on.....

I don't recall anyone complaining about the 5D2...

Sure they did. Autofocus. Stellar rig otherwise.

- A

It really does not matter what the specs are... Look at video.... some people complain because the camera had it, others because it wasn't as good as they wanted it to be..... look at the number of megapixels.... some complain there are too few while others complain that there is too many..... Even when Canon introduced the anti-flicker technology on the 7D2 people complained that the time spent developing it would have been better spent on something else.....

Face it, there will always be those who complain.... you don't even need a good reason to do so......

 

[ahsanford]

And forum users will complain about whatever specs the camera has and those who shoot with the camera will say WOW!!!!!..... just like the 5D3..... and the 7D2...... and the 6D...... and so on.....

I don't recall anyone complaining about the 5D2...

Sure they did. Autofocus. Stellar rig otherwise.

- A

It really does not matter what the specs are... Look at video.... some people complain because the camera had it, others because it wasn't as good as they wanted it to be..... look at the number of megapixels.... some complain there are too few while others complain that there is too many..... Even when Canon introduced the anti-flicker technology on the 7D2 people complained that the time spent developing it would have been better spent on something else.....

Face it, there will always be those who complain.... you don't even need a good reason to do so......

Don, get real. Everyone knows the only things that matter with cameras are megapixels and DR, and the only thing that matters with lenses are the max aperture and the sharpness. Everything else is a sideshow.

If Canon doesn't improve those things by 200% by mid-May, Sony will yet the Shard to power the Death Star and explode the Land of Photographia into little pixels and everyone at school will make fun of me.

We've been over this before. Jeez.

- A

 

[Talley]

It really does not matter what the specs are... Look at video.... some people complain because the camera had it, others because it wasn't as good as they wanted it to be..... look at the number of megapixels.... some complain there are too few while others complain that there is too many..... Even when Canon introduced the anti-flicker technology on the 7D2 people complained that the time spent developing it would have been better spent on something else.....

Face it, there will always be those who complain.... you don't even need a good reason to do so......

I find the Anti-Flicker to be amazing.... my number 1 complaint of taking indoor sports photography (basketball/volleyball) is that damn flicker and cannot WAIT for the 5D4 to have this new feature

The 5D4 will absolutely be a camera I buy at release even at a 3,500 pricetag. I need all these fancy new menu options like no other. Mainly anti-flicker... it ruins too many shots for me.

 

[vscd]

CFast has been reliable on the Arri Amira and prices for the cards have come down since introduction, the SanDisk 128GB CFast card has a 515 mb/s write speed. The SDXC 64GB UHS-II Extreme Pro has a 280 mb/s write speed, Compact Flash 128GB Extreme Pro has a 160 mb/s write speed.
If the 1DX II doesnt have 4K video then its questionable whether it needs CFast and could live on a two slot SDXC UHS-II set-up, if it has 4K video then CFast makes a lot of sense.

Those are all just marketingnumbers. I mainly had the experience that the CF-cards hold up to their maximum datarates quite well, while the SD-Cards rarely come up to the values on the package. CF-cards are specified up to at least 133MB/s, which is more than one GBit. I think this is ok for a while if the cards really write it to the media... the good thing is the mechanical robustness of the old CF-Cards. And don't forget, the controller is the bottleneck on most bodies, not the card.

For example look at the Canon 50D and the change to SD-Cards with the Canon 60D. The transferrates totally went down to the cellar. :-\

CFast is a solution too, but please no SDCards.

Edit: Looking at the Sandisk "Extreme Pro". A fat "280MB/s" is standing in the upper left corner, but the "U3" tells that this cards only promised 30MB/Sek... what a defalcation.

 

[Don Haines]

It really does not matter what the specs are... Look at video.... some people complain because the camera had it, others because it wasn't as good as they wanted it to be..... look at the number of megapixels.... some complain there are too few while others complain that there is too many..... Even when Canon introduced the anti-flicker technology on the 7D2 people complained that the time spent developing it would have been better spent on something else.....

Face it, there will always be those who complain.... you don't even need a good reason to do so......

I find the Anti-Flicker to be amazing.... my number 1 complaint of taking indoor sports photography (basketball/volleyball) is that damn flicker and cannot WAIT for the 5D4 to have this new feature

The 5D4 will absolutely be a camera I buy at release even at a 3,500 pricetag. I need all these fancy new menu options like no other. Mainly anti-flicker... it ruins too many shots for me.

It works like a charm..... and every Canon DSLR that has come out since the 7D2 has it..... I think it is a safe bet that the 1DX2 and 5D4 will also have it....

To me, this is just one more example of those little things that all add up to make a great camera....

 

[ahsanford]

It works like a charm..... and every Canon DSLR that has come out since the 7D2 has it..... I think it is a safe bet that the 1DX2 and 5D4 will also have it....

To me, this is just one more example of those little things that all add up to make a great camera....

But there is no DXO metric for performance in a dimly lit warehouse with flickering lights. (They just have one for performance in a dimly lit warehouse without flickering lights.)

I fail to understand why Canon would waste an iota of effort on something that won't increase our standing at the altar of DXO. Less features! I want to push shadows 7 stops. That's where it's at, people.

- A

 

[Famateur]

Canon would be silly not to make it dual CFast.

Agreed -- especially with the expected longer release cycle of Canon DSLRs. If the 1DXII is to last 4-5 years, it would be silly not to pack it with the fastest technology the market will support. I know Canon has let down (some people's) high expectations on other bodies, but this is their flagship. I would be shocked if it wasn't dual CFast.

Looking forward to spec rumors tightening up (hopefully) over the next few months. I wonder what the performance increase of Digic 7 will be over the previous generation.

 

[jeffa4444]

The Canon EOS-1D X Mark II will be Canon’s next full frame camera and we expect it to be shipping before NAB 2016 rolls around in April of 2016. We’ve seen the odd specification list that we have written off as speculation on the part of the information provider.</p>
<p>A few bits of information about Canon’s upcoming flagship have been passed onto us.</p>
<p>We’re told this will definitely be the first Canon DSLR to have a new DIGIC 7 processor, and most likely two of them. The entire Canon universe is expecting class leading dynamic range and ISO performance and Canon is trying to meet those lofty goals. Although we’re a bit worried about dynamic range, as the Cinema EOS C300 Mark II promised 15 stops of dynamic range, but <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-cinema-eos-c300-mark-ii-lab-test/">lab tests have shown it doesn’t reach those numbers</a>. Lets hope it’s just a firmware issue and Canon can correct it.</p>
<p>The second bit of information is in regards to memory cards. There’s mounting speculation that this will be the first Canon DSLR to use CFast, and that this camera may get a dual slot CFast setup. Which means you’re going to have to buy new memory cards to replace your compact flash cards. Due to the size similarities of CFast and Compact Flash, it’s unlikely you’re going to see 1 CFast slot and 1 CompactFlash slot. The decision has already been made by Canon which way they’re going to go with the EOS-1D X Mark II, and this speculation may be older. Once we can confirm the type of memory cards that will be used in the camera, we’ll pass it onto you.</p>
<p>More to come…</p>

That testing has been very widely questioned. By the testers own admission he didn't use the settings Canon say are required to achieve the figures, kinda like testing a jpeg instead of a RAW file. Other very highly placed video professionals have said they have done the testing and it does have 15 stops of DR.

The early testers weve spoken too dont believe 15 stops thats not to say with fimware revisions they will not get there but the verdict is definately still out. Arri didnt have 14 stops with the Alexa initially we have the same device they test with and will be testing the Canon C300 MKII carefully to judge the claims.

 

[DudeInTheSky]

The Canon EOS-1D X Mark II will be Canon’s next full frame camera...
<p>The second bit of information is in regards to memory cards. There’s mounting speculation that this will be the first Canon DSLR to use CFast, and that this camera may get a dual slot CFast setup.

The judgement is still out if CFast will be a short lived card standard or get a decent run. CFast is based on Serial ATA so interface speed is stuck at 6Gbit/s, real life 550Mbytes/s read, 520Mbytes/s write max. Or 2 frames per second of 120Megapixels 16bit RAW. There is no known upgrade for CFast past this speed. After that it's all new memory cards again. I think it's worth noting that Apple has now abandoned Serial ATA for PCI Express even in their iPhone 6s! (Apple abandoned Serial ATA two years ago in Macs.) So it feels a bit weird to buy into a memory card standard with an interface speed that isn't even good enough for an iPhone. But maybe that's all we need? I tend to think not...

I know I've posted this before. Sorry to post this again. But it just seems like an awful lot of people (and not just in this forum) treat CFast technology as what they want it to be and not what it is... It's not magic, it's just technology!

 

[tpatana]

Give me more DR and less high-iso noise and I'm happy.

And those who say "if you buy this camera, you can afford the cfast cards", I don't think that's how it works. Yes, in terms of affording I could go out to buy two of those with 200-400F4L, but it doesn't make sense and I don't want to spend extra money if I can avoid it. I currently have 4x 64GB Lexar 1066x, and I wish I can keep using those. Buying 256GB in CFast next year will be probably around $500. That's $500 extra I could be spending on lights, lenses, booze, women, travel...

Kick-ass pipe dream feature would be in-sensor binning, so super-high res for normal mode, and then 4:1 binning for sports and high-fps/high-ISO.

 

[IgotGASbadDude]

And those who say "if you buy this camera, you can afford the cfast cards", I don't think that's how it works.

This ^ +1

It would be hard enough for me to scrape up the money for the 1DX II camera body, so adding another $500 for new cards only makes the dream of owning this camera even further out of reach. I had to scrape together to get my 1DX . . .

That being said, I think it would be wise for Canon to include the newest/fastest of everything in the new flagship model.

 

[CSD]

The judgement is still out if CFast will be a short lived card standard or get a decent run. CFast is based on Serial ATA so interface speed is stuck at 6Gbit/s, real life 550Mbytes/s read, 520Mbytes/s write max. Or 2 frames per second of 120Megapixels 16bit RAW. There is no known upgrade for CFast past this speed.

The replacement for SATA is NVMe drives, but that's whole different set of protocols and design challenges compared to migrating from PATA to SATA. Apple currently use x4 PCIe NVMe drive along with MS and other OEM companies.

As an aside why would Apple using a PCIe interface in a iPhone? It doesn't have a tree topology framework in iOS to support that bus interface design especially since phones tend to be monolithic in construction and implementation plus it's using direct interconnects to it's LPDDR4 DRAM. I'll grant that Apple was using a modified mSATA interface in their laptops and desktops before moving to full NVMe.

 

[Tugela]

Canon would be silly not to make it dual CFast. That would support 4K and prolonged high fps bursts. So what if CFast is expensive? I'm sure anyone with the funds to preorder a 1D X Mark II can afford it.

I doubt the 1D X mkII would have 4K

If the 1D X mkII has CFast, I hope it wouldn't trickle down to the 5DmkIV. Personally, I would be plenty happy with two UHS II slots.

If it has Digic 7 processors it will have 4K video as an option.

It will also have to have CFast to keep up with the data rate Canon require to be able to cope with 4K.

So, Digic 7 means both 4K and CFast are highly likely.

 

[Loswr]

If it has Digic 7 processors it will have 4K video as an option.
It will also have to have CFast to keep up with the data rate Canon require to be able to cope with 4K.

If Digic 7 means 4K and CFast is required to 'cope with 4K', please explain how Canon managed 4K video with good ol' dual Digic 5+ and CF cards?

 

[Tugela]

CFast has been reliable on the Arri Amira and prices for the cards have come down since introduction, the SanDisk 128GB CFast card has a 515 mb/s write speed. The SDXC 64GB UHS-II Extreme Pro has a 280 mb/s write speed, Compact Flash 128GB Extreme Pro has a 160 mb/s write speed.
If the 1DX II doesnt have 4K video then its questionable whether it needs CFast and could live on a two slot SDXC UHS-II set-up, if it has 4K video then CFast makes a lot of sense.

Those are all just marketingnumbers. I mainly had the experience that the CF-cards hold up to their maximum datarates quite well, while the SD-Cards rarely come up to the values on the package. CF-cards are specified up to at least 133MB/s, which is more than one GBit. I think this is ok for a while if the cards really write it to the media... the good thing is the mechanical robustness of the old CF-Cards. And don't forget, the controller is the bottleneck on most bodies, not the card.

For example look at the Canon 50D and the change to SD-Cards with the Canon 60D. The transferrates totally went down to the cellar. :-\

CFast is a solution too, but please no SDCards.

Edit: Looking at the Sandisk "Extreme Pro". A fat "280MB/s" is standing in the upper left corner, but the "U3" tells that this cards only promised 30MB/Sek... what a defalcation.

It depends. I use a Lexar Professional SDXC UHSII card in my NX1 that has a read speed of up to 150MB/sec, and is also rated as "U3". The camera will download at 30MB/sec over USB from the card, but if I remove the card and use it in a UHSII card reader through a USB port I get read rates well in excess of 100MB/s. Basically the bottleneck is the write speed to the hard drive.

While there are other factors involved in card read/write speeds (the specs you see on the package are maximum burst rates, not sustained rates) more often than not the bottleneck with the high performance cards is the equipment you are using them in, not the cards themselves.

 

[Tugela]

If it has Digic 7 processors it will have 4K video as an option.
It will also have to have CFast to keep up with the data rate Canon require to be able to cope with 4K.

If Digic 7 means 4K and CFast is required to 'cope with 4K', please explain how Canon managed 4K video with good ol' dual Digic 5+ and CF cards?

By using an archaic codec that did not require processing power. New cameras won't use that solution, they will use standard codecs encoded with hardware encoders built into the processors. For Digic 7 that means a spec fairly similar to what is in the C300M2 and XC10. The high minimum bit rate in those cameras is almost certainly due to thermal envelope constraints, and the same thing will apply for the 1DxM2. Big data means big cards, these things all follow from each other. Digic 7 won't be optimised for video like the DV5 however, so there will be some compromises, but otherwise that is how it will be done.

Digic 7 means 4K and CFast.

 

[Loswr]

@ Tugela - makes sense, thanks.

 

[kaptainkatsu]

I wish I could afford a 1DXm2. Guess I'll start saving my pennies so I can buy a used one when the 1DXm3 comes out