More Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]

[bdunbar79]

Just for the record, it took Nikon 4 cameras to compete with the 5D Mark III: D800, D800E, D810, D750. Off topic.

Considering that I'd rather have my 1-card slot, 12 megapixel D700 than a 5D mk3, I dunno about that. Also, since high FPS aren't very critical to weddings, I'd say the D800 fairly competed with the 5D3.

In fact shooting white gowns in dark churches, I wouldn't in a million years trade 2-3 stops of DR for an extra couple FPS.

Let's get back on topic, lol...

I don't understand your statement. Are you shooting the white gowns in the dark churches at low ISO? Because that's the only place you have more DR: low ISO. By ISO 1600 the 5D3 catches the D800. Even at 800 it's only 0.7 stops difference. At ISO 100 the gap is huge (2.4 stops).

On the sales topic I was going off the fact that the 5D3 outsold the D800/E combined on amazon. That's the only real camera-specific data we have.

 

[Matthew Saville]

Just for the record, it took Nikon 4 cameras to compete with the 5D Mark III: D800, D800E, D810, D750. Off topic.

Considering that I'd rather have my 1-card slot, 12 megapixel D700 than a 5D mk3, I dunno about that. Also, since high FPS aren't very critical to weddings, I'd say the D800 fairly competed with the 5D3.

In fact shooting white gowns in dark churches, I wouldn't in a million years trade 2-3 stops of DR for an extra couple FPS.

Let's get back on topic, lol...

I don't understand your statement. Are you shooting the white gowns in the dark churches at low ISO? Because that's the only place you have more DR: low ISO. By ISO 1600 the 5D3 catches the D800. Even at 800 it's only 0.7 stops difference. At ISO 100 the gap is huge (2.4 stops).

On the sales topic I was going off the fact that the 5D3 outsold the D800/E combined on amazon. That's the only real camera-specific data we have.

True, the Canons catch up at higher ISOs. I hear the 6D sensor even beats the Nikons, past 1600. I'd love a 6D if all I shot was astro-landscapes, I'd rather have its 12800 images than from any other Nikon, save the Df.

But yes, to answer your question, with a fast lens and a steady hand, I can often pull off ISO 100-400 even in dimly lit situations. And since my hobby is landscape photography, I always have a tripod at my weddings too.

BTW I would never buy a camera based on sales figures, ever. Sales figures do indicate that a camera is good, even great, I'll grant that. But they aren't at all an indicator of actual superiority.

 

[zlatko]

K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.

Exactly. Dunno what all this hoo ha is about dual slots on the 6D. It's a low end FF for hobbyists and enthusiasts. If you're a pro who relies on paid work then you really ought to have a 5D MkIII. Otherwise you're clearly just being a cheap-o and then complaining about lack of features. Buy the right gear for the job.

Agree.

Exactly. It's another case of someone wanting the features of the more expensive product but at the price of the cheaper product, and then blaming the manufacturer for this huge "insult" because this particular feature wasn't included at the price this buyer wanted to pay. If I felt that way, I would have left Canon a long time ago.

Maybe Canon knows that most of their 6D buyers don't care, and doesn't want to make every 6D customer pay extra just to please a few that want dual cards. Or maybe the 6D is the successor to a long line of very successful single card slot cameras in the same price range.

But Canon has also offered dual slot cameras for ages, going back at least to the 1D Mark II (2004). All one had to do to get dual cards was pay the price at the camera store ... and, just like that, a dual card camera would come home with you.

It's like a photography client wanting extra services included for a bargain price, and then being "insulted" that the photographer won't comply. And, yes, the 6D is the bargain full frame camera in the product line. It's not the flagship, nor is it the number 2.

 

[zlatko]

It's not about the bride getting soaked (although that happens), it's about where you need to be in order to get the shot. If it's raining hard when the bride's car pulls-up to the church, you still need to get that shot. You can try picking it off with a long lens from inside the church, but the angle is wrong, and the bride will wonder why you aren't there (she is, after all). You can have an assistant follow you around with an umbrella, but that's awkward, and your assistant should really be covering the groom and attendees inside.

I've shot a lot of weddings and I don't agree. If it's raining hard, is the bride waiting out there in the rain? Of course not. Someone gets an umbrella and they quickly get from car to church. You can photograph that arrival perfectly well from the church doorway. You don't need to be glued to a spot outside in the hard rain. And you don't even need a long lens; the bride is not crossing a football field to get from the car to the church. So you will get the shot and the bride won't wonder why you weren't "there" because "there" is not some spot outside in a hard rain.

 

[Bernard]

And that is the difference between being an Internet armchair expert and someone with real experience.

It's the difference between getting "the shot" and getting "a shot." If all you want to deliver is "a shot," then it's easy to stay dry and comfortable. The problem is that every guest with a smart phone is getting the same shot, which makes it hard to justify your rate. Their shots will be just as good, and they'll be on Instagram within seconds.

If the only thing keeping you in business is the fact that the officiant asks guests not to take pictures during the ceremony, then you are doing something wrong.

 

[rifz]

GREAT! so the will build a new camera before the bothering to fix the beta crAPPware to use Wifi! because the app is "free" they never have to improve it or make it user friendly. that was one big reason I bought the 6D is I wanted wireless tether.

 

[jcarapet]

K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.

Agreed. I can understand it from a professional level of data redundancy or storing different format photos on each card, but otherwise it's not 100% necessary on entry level full frame. I am a hobbyist/semi-pro and only use my SD card slot. a 64gb card will get me through a day of shooting no problem on my 5d3, including football or rugby matches I shoot.

 

[Sporgon]

And that is the difference between being an Internet armchair expert and someone with real experience.

It's the difference between getting "the shot" and getting "a shot." If all you want to deliver is "a shot," then it's easy to stay dry and comfortable. The problem is that every guest with a smart phone is getting the same shot, which makes it hard to justify your rate. Their shots will be just as good, and they'll be on Instagram within seconds.

If the only thing keeping you in business is the fact that the officiant asks guests not to take pictures during the ceremony, then you are doing something wrong.

Your confidence in the 'professional' weather sealing of the 5DIII is no doubt heartwarming for any naive 5DIII owners out there, but is misplaced. In reality the gaskets used on the 5DIII seem to be the same sponge strips that the 6D uses, and even Canon themselves state both camera's sealing levels are "the same as the film 1 series". It's worth remembering that even those last film cameras were not as much a mobile computer as to day's cameras are.

I would feel as vulnerable in heavy rain with a 5DIII as I would a 6D. Even with a 1D series, which do have proper rubber ring gaskets, most users try to give some protection in heavy rain.

The problem with shooting in a downpour is that water gets everywhere, including your front element, and as has been pointed out, lens hoods for a standard zoom are no use whatsoever. In practice I've found the only safe way to shoot in rain is to stop the rain reaching your camera in the first place.

I'm afraid your comments on wiping the front element or filter with a tissue rather give the game away when it comes to your experience. As I said earlier, water gets everywhere; your hands are wet, your coat and sleeves dripping in water. If you are wearing a hat it pours water down onto your camera as you look down. If you are not wearing a hat it runs off your hair and into your eyes. Remember this is a wedding you are talking about; things are happening quickly and wont be repeated. The only way I will shoot in the rain now is from under a large golfing umbrella, and even then it's a struggle to keep water off the camera.

 

[zlatko]

And that is the difference between being an Internet armchair expert and someone with real experience.

It's the difference between getting "the shot" and getting "a shot." If all you want to deliver is "a shot," then it's easy to stay dry and comfortable. The problem is that every guest with a smart phone is getting the same shot, which makes it hard to justify your rate. Their shots will be just as good, and they'll be on Instagram within seconds.

If the only thing keeping you in business is the fact that the officiant asks guests not to take pictures during the ceremony, then you are doing something wrong.

OK, here we go again. No, the guests will not get that shot. The ceremony is about to begin when the bride arrives, so the guests are seated inside the church. They can't see the bride's arrival outside, let alone get a smart phone photo of it. They are not crowding the church doorway as the bride is entering. So they won't get the same shot and it won't be on Instagram. You seem to have some fixed idea about what "the shot" is, but let me assure you that it does not require the photographer to be stuck outside in a hard rain. That's not reasonable.

 

[bdunbar79]

If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.

 

[AcutancePhotography]

If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.

One thing we all should have learned is that ad hominem attacks never settle any discussion. Bernard may have a different opinion from yours, but different does not mean wrong.

 

[bdunbar79]

If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.

One thing we all should have learned is that ad hominem attacks never settle any discussion. Bernard may have a different opinion from yours, but different does not mean wrong.

Who said he was wrong? It just gets tiresome that when someone posts someone else keeps responding and repeating the same things over and over and over again, despite well-established and highly-skilled and experienced wedding photographers telling him "no."

Besides all of that, what's the point? No pro wedding photographer should ever buy and shoot with a 6D? What garbage.

 

[Loswr]

Your confidence in the 'professional' weather sealing of the 5DIII is no doubt heartwarming for any naive 5DIII owners out there, but is misplaced. In reality the gaskets used on the 5DIII seem to be the same sponge strips that the 6D uses...

As we all know, pros must use pro tools. Clearly, the only current Canon pro camera is the 1D X. Previously, pros had a choice of the 1DsIII or 1DIV, though I'm sure wedding professionals would be using a pair of 1DsIII bodies. Certainly, no wedding professional worthy of the name would have used a 5DII, with its AF system unable to track brides as they run down the aisle, its shoddy weather sealing and pathetic single card slot. :

 

[ashmadux]

Who are we all fooling? The 6D- that i own (and selling!)- just needs a decent Af system. The 9pt system, 1 cross point garbage doesnt belong on ANY camera in this age. Its an embarrasment.

If the 6d body didnt have the spectacular iso it does (never worry about iso with this camera- love that), or quite lighter than a 5dmk3, it would be a huge joke. But it does have those qualities, so its the capable but meh 6d we all know and love.

That said, i bought a 5d3 before my all important trip to japan, and there is nothing like a dependable af system. Spot focusing at 100 feet away with a 50 1.4 (!) has me giddy as a school kid with a 50cent cake.

 

[Matthew Saville]

If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.

One thing we all should have learned is that ad hominem attacks never settle any discussion. Bernard may have a different opinion from yours, but different does not mean wrong.

I don't know how anybody is still talking about this; the Canon 6D has weather sealing. Bernard can have whatever opinion he wants, but if the 6D has weather sealing, the whole rainy wedding discussion is pointless. You're 10x more likely to kill your camera by accidentally leaving a PC sync port open, or changing lenses when you shouldn't, or by using an un-sealed lens of course.

Of all my years of using digital cameras in the rain, from completely un-sealed beginner cameras to flagships, I've NEVER had a problem as long as the camera has its ports properly covered etc.

BTW, I'm not just talking from an armchair here. I'm this kind of person, lol: https://youtu.be/1eD1aTem1Dk

 

[Don Haines]

And that is the difference between being an Internet armchair expert and someone with real experience.

It's the difference between getting "the shot" and getting "a shot." If all you want to deliver is "a shot," then it's easy to stay dry and comfortable. The problem is that every guest with a smart phone is getting the same shot, which makes it hard to justify your rate. Their shots will be just as good, and they'll be on Instagram within seconds.

If the only thing keeping you in business is the fact that the officiant asks guests not to take pictures during the ceremony, then you are doing something wrong.

Your confidence in the 'professional' weather sealing of the 5DIII is no doubt heartwarming for any naive 5DIII owners out there, but is misplaced. In reality the gaskets used on the 5DIII seem to be the same sponge strips that the 6D uses, and even Canon themselves state both camera's sealing levels are "the same as the film 1 series". It's worth remembering that even those last film cameras were not as much a mobile computer as to day's cameras are.

I would feel as vulnerable in heavy rain with a 5DIII as I would a 6D. Even with a 1D series, which do have proper rubber ring gaskets, most users try to give some protection in heavy rain.

The problem with shooting in a downpour is that water gets everywhere, including your front element, and as has been pointed out, lens hoods for a standard zoom are no use whatsoever. In practice I've found the only safe way to shoot in rain is to stop the rain reaching your camera in the first place.

I'm afraid your comments on wiping the front element or filter with a tissue rather give the game away when it comes to your experience. As I said earlier, water gets everywhere; your hands are wet, your coat and sleeves dripping in water. If you are wearing a hat it pours water down onto your camera as you look down. If you are not wearing a hat it runs off your hair and into your eyes. Remember this is a wedding you are talking about; things are happening quickly and wont be repeated. The only way I will shoot in the rain now is from under a large golfing umbrella, and even then it's a struggle to keep water off the camera.

I tell you what, I wouldn't mind a tripod that came with an umbrella holder in/on it somewhere! Or something that you could attach to a tripod to do that...

My camera bag (backpack style.... I like to keep my hands free) has a holder for carrying a tripod which works perfectly to hold an umbrella handle.

 

[ashmadux]

Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.

How about being able to do non center focusing in that weather...good luck with that,

 

[Matthew Saville]

Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.

How about being able to do non center focusing in that weather...good luck with that,

That's exactly why I don't understand how everybody has spent all this time debating the 6D's ability to shoot a bride in the rain. The 6D's main (only?) major drawback is its off-center AF points.

If it even had just a stretched out diamond pattern of cross-type AF points, it'd be a killer camera. We don't need 51 or 61, we just need a few more cross-type points that are spread out closer to the 2/3 areas.

In this day and age when even Pentax has been putting 9 (11?) cross-type AF points in its cheapest beginner DSLRs, this is clearly just a calculated tactic from Canon's corporate decision makers.

In fact I'd bet $$ that there's one or two Canon engineers somewhere who are very pissed off right now, because they know they could design a killer AF system that costs just as much as the 6D's, but they're being told "nope, we wanna stick with the no-cross diamond pattern! Party like it's 2004!"

 

[AcutancePhotography]

I would like to point out that there is a huge difference between "weather sealing" and "weather sealed".

A camera manufacturer can install one piece of foam and the marketing department can rightfully say that the camera "has weather sealing". Unless the camera has been subjected to an IP test weather sealing means only what the marketing department wants it to mean.

I treat all my cameras as being "weather vulnerable" and take precautions.

 

[zlatko]

I don't know what it costs to design a killer AF system, but I do just fine with the 6D's AF system. Center point on the 6D is excellent. In fact, it's one of the best in low light (goes to -3EV). Other points are useable, certainly not crap — you just have to know how they work. One focus point is usually enough for me, regardless of which camera I am using. I use the 5D3 as well, and of course it's better. But for the price the 6D does just fine. With Leica M cameras you get exactly one focus point (patch in the middle) and it's manual focus, and people have made some great photos with Leica.