More Full Frame Cameras on the 2012 Horizon? [CR2/CR1]

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Who Dey
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#1
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<strong>More big sensor cameras


</strong>We <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/03/mirrorless-camera-new-full-frame-coming-second-half-2012-cr2/" target="_blank">reported a while ago</a> that Canon would introduce a new “entry level”  full frame camera some time in 2012. With the recent Nikon D600 rumors, there has been a lot of chatter in the Canon world if they’d do the same thing. For the moment, the 5D Mark II is Canon’s entry level full frame camera.</p>
<p>No specs were given to me, but again I was told Canon is working on such a camera to be available before Christmas 2012 (or 2013 if recent history tells us anything).</p>
<p><strong>… and the other?</strong>


I’ve received 2 other reports that Canon will possibly announce another full frame DSLR beyond the “entry level” in 2012, with availability moving into 2013. One would assume it would be a larger megapixel offering.</p>
<p>I have heard as many as 5 different sensors are in the wild and being tested,  and in various camera form factors.</p>
<p><strong>CRs Take


</strong>It’s highly likely that both cameras will become real products. I do get the feeling Canon hasn’t committed to their immediate roadmap yet and there’s a lot of “wait and see what the market wants” going on. People would like to see the Cinema EOS brand trickle down into a more affordable product than the EOS-1D C, but I don’t see that happening until the 1D C actually starts to ship. I’ll leave the delay jokes up to you guys.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
 
#3
Higher MP camera sounds nice, but we all know what the real question is..

Will it fail or succeed to improve in the low ISO DR department? (Where the 5D3 obviously failed).

In other words, will it have brand new sensor to compete with the D800?

Edit. I just saw that CR wrote: "I have heard as many as 5 different sensors are in the wild and being tested, and in various camera form factors."

Interesting!
 
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#6
From Canon's recent launches, it is obvious that they are trying to build a portfolio around DLSR based movie cams. I would not be surprised to see a 5DC... Perhaps with a much weaker AA filter to improve resolution, better codec... After all, the only real complain about the 5DIII's video capability is the resolving power.
 
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#7
photosites said:
From Canon's recent launches, it is obvious that they are trying to build a portfolio around DLSR based movie cams. I would not be surprised to see a 5DC... Perhaps with a much weaker AA filter to improve resolution, better codec... After all, the only real complain about the 5DIII's video capability is the resolving power.
Click to expand...
But the biggest complaint is still about the lack of DR improvement. This is what they will take care of first, if they aren't stupid.
 
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#9
this is doubtful. canon has their hands full with refreshing their aps-c line, keeping up with the C line, and figuring out mirrorless. they are doing too many things at once.

2013 may see a 1Dsmk4 the earliest. Full frames are done for 2012 as far as canon goes.
 
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#12
psolberg said:
this is doubtful. canon has their hands full with refreshing their aps-c line, keeping up with the C line, and figuring out mirrorless. they are doing too many things at once.

2013 may see a 1Dsmk4 the earliest. Full frames are done for 2012 as far as canon goes.
Click to expand...

Don't underestimate the power of market forces. I'm sure Canon has had a high MP sensor in development for quite some time now, don't be fooled into thinking they were caught off guard by the D800, I'm sure they knew what Nikon was going to release, but I also think they were caught off guard by it's price point.

As stated, the million dollar question is if Canon has found a way to compete with the admittedly excellent low ISO DR of the exmor sensors. I don't subscribe to the D800 hype as I need a more well rounded camera, but once Canon releases their high MP body, landscape photogs WILL want the ability to push shadows like the Nikon competition. Sony has set the standard for low ISO DR performance and Canon would be foolish to release a camera that's not competitive in that regard. The camera would also need to be better than the Nikon at ISO 6400+, I would expect a decent 12,800 but not much better due to the huge pixel density.

I've never really considered the 5DIII & D800 to be direct competitors, they're very different cameras.

I believe development of this high MP camera is already well underway, and a 2012 announcement with an early 2013 ship date is very probable, but I'll say get ready for sticker shock. You just aren't going to get a uber MP body from Canon for $3K, I fully expect it to be in the $4.5 - $5.5K price range. For that price, I would reasonably expect the 5DIIIs 61pt af, dual CF slots, dual digic V. I would also expect it to be able to shoot the same 6 fps as the 5DIII, if a single Digic V can push 22MP files at 6fps, there's no reason that dual digic Vs couldn't do the same with 40MP files, although Canon just can't skimp on the buffer like they did with the 5DIII.
 
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#13
Canon Rumors said:
I'm starting to think the future of APS-C will be in mirrorless cameras and they're going to get phased out in the "prosumer" market.
Click to expand...

I take this one step further and suspect once mirrorless cameras loose their 'toy' stigma, they will probably eat the full frame market too. Once they get the electronic viewfinders up to similar quality to the optical ones, the advantages to being able to see exactly what the sensor is seeing will outweigh the 'it has a mirror!' thing.

Heh, thought the quote about trying out differnt form factors out in the field, with Canon (and everyone else's) move to putting video capabilities in DSLR bodies, I got a fun image of Canon trying out putting a still camera into a video-like body.... which I am not sure would be a bad thing, I loved my DC120 which had a very different body then we see today.
 
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#14
I feel Canon is starting to fall behind. Nikon seems to be better at putting out new models of cameras at a much faster rate for demands of their customers. Canon is doing the same but at a very slow rate. People have been asking for a camera like the 5DIII for a long time. Seems like this camera should have been released a long time ago. Although its a great camera I feel the technology jump was small for the amount of time that it took to finally release it. I'm sure many will disagree, its just my opinion. Nikon is now going to release the new D600 a entry level Full Frame far sooner than canon, and maybe even two models before canon even releases one. People have been asking for an entry level full frame of awhile and canon is dragging its feet, and now Nikon is going to beat them to the punch. Usually competitors leap frog one another, but canon is lagging too far behind and is beginning to look like an over stuffed toad that can't jump.
 
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#16
Although I see the mirrorless APS-C eating up the entry level DSLR's like the xxxxD and xxxD, but still see a market for the intermediate level cameras from the xxD upwards, furthermore, I still think that we may still see a APS-C "1D" model, designed for even faster frame rates and reach. EF-S lenses will undoubtably sell in big numbers, probably mostly the 55-250mm as the 18-55mm comes with the majority of Canon DSLR sale, I'm still staggered Canon don't have a set of budget EF-S primes and hope to see some in the future under the new batch of IS non L primes that are starting to appear (thinking the new 24/28mm).
 
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#17
Neeneko said:
Canon Rumors said:
I'm starting to think the future of APS-C will be in mirrorless cameras and they're going to get phased out in the "prosumer" market.
Click to expand...

I take this one step further and suspect once mirrorless cameras loose their 'toy' stigma, they will probably eat the full frame market too. Once they get the electronic viewfinders up to similar quality to the optical ones, the advantages to being able to see exactly what the sensor is seeing will outweigh the 'it has a mirror!' thing.
-clip/crop-
Click to expand...

PENTAX has that funky brick-like but surprisingly ergonomic K-01 mirrorless that uses their standard lens mount. Great concept, I really like it, would buy one if I had Pentax glass.
http://pentax.ca/en/digital_slr/K-01/

Canon needs to consider doing the same thing with an EOS mount, crop and FF. But dammit, use better sensors than their current offerings.

No mirror = much higher fps possible, and much less mirror-slap/bounce to blur hi-rez sensors. Also cheaper lighter package to produce. But make sure we have some smart AF options, not just slow contrast detection. There are some patents that allow more predictive AF using a live-view function to speed things up. This could be a very useful product system for the future.

And if there are some new entry level FF cameras coming, they'd REALLY better improve that low ISO performance and DR cuz I'd rather boost my Canon lineup with some TSE lenses and more FF bodies than figure out how to make the same shots on a D800 or rumored D400/D600.

Canon, make use a REAL landscape camera that can compete with the D800! You already have some of the required glass that they don't.
 
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#20
Canon Rumors said:
I'm starting to think the future of APS-C will be in mirrorless cameras and they're going to get phased out in the "prosumer" market.
Click to expand...

This was already theorized before by some and it certainly sounds like a smart move for a change for Canon to (re)gain a leadership position.

Stone said:
Don't underestimate the power of market forces. I'm sure Canon has had a high MP sensor in development for quite some time now, don't be fooled into thinking they were caught off guard by the D800, I'm sure they knew what Nikon was going to release, but I also think they were caught off guard by it's price point.
Click to expand...

Interesting - I wanted to write the exact opposite: While Canon certainly knew what Sony's tech could achieve in a Nikon full frame body, the fact that they are targeting early 2013 for the actual release of their successor and that they strangely produce the 5d2 along the successor 5d3 looks to me like they were caught off guard and now have to start thinking about how to fill the 5d2 successor and high mp gap. Maybe they put all their resources into their video line and took their dlsr position too much for granted.
 
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