More Than One Active Full Frame Mirrorless Project at Canon? [CR1]

[Orangutan]

It has been rather dull since Dilbert left.

Jack

What has append to him?

he was bullied away by the regular forum bullies here. Who are even proud of it instead of deeply ashamed.

That's not entirely true: I believe he made the mistake of leaving his name in the metadata of a photo he posted, and someone called attention to it. That was certainly an error in judgement on both sides, but I don't think it's fair to say he was bullied.

Dilbert said a lot of...um...unintentionally humorous things here, but he seemed harmless.

 

[Ozarker]

Ahhhh, yes…the future. In the future, the sun will become a red giant and destroy the earth. You have been warned.

But only Sony will have the dynamic range to capture it. But only if they improve the weather sealing to survive the event...

2hrs walking in the rain around HongKong, street photography, my a7r II + FE 55mm didn't have any issues. 6hrs plus shooting with same combo in the mountain with snow storm, again no issues.

Don't give such a comment if you haven't touch the product.

You should comprehend his post a little better. He's talking about a cosmic / weather event that would destroy the earth. He was trying to be funny. I think he is.

 

[Ozarker]

The first project is a full frame mirrorless camera with a native EF mount. This is something we have said has to happen for Canon to enter the world of full frame mirrorless cameras.

Actually, this would be a big mistake. Defeats several of the benefits of mirrorless.

No it doesn't.

 

[ahsanford]

The first project is a full frame mirrorless camera with a native EF mount. This is something we have said has to happen for Canon to enter the world of full frame mirrorless cameras.

Actually, this would be a big mistake. Defeats several of the benefits of mirrorless.

No it doesn't.

And that scintillatingly repartee, folks, is the heart of the full EF mount vs. thin mount divide.

More and more each day I believe Canon will eventually have to offer both because each group defines the upside of mirrorless so fundamentally differently.

- A

 

[Jopa]

Lets see Canon's first full frame mirrorless camera will come out in lat 2018? Give me a break by that time Sony will be in its fourth generation of full frame sensor cameras and Fuji and Sony will continue to have cropped sensor models far more advanced than Canon's M series with its paltry, slow (can you believe f6.3?) native lens series. Meanwhile in the DSLR market Nikon is just killing Canon.Its new D850 blows anything Canon has out of the water. Better sensors (made by Sony), less expensive bodies and a lens lineup that is good but is not as good as Canon's.

LOL Mr Troll... Do you believe yourself in this BS?

 

[AvTvM]

The first project is a full frame mirrorless camera with a native EF mount. This is something we have said has to happen for Canon to enter the world of full frame mirrorless cameras.

Actually, this would be a big mistake. Defeats several of the benefits of mirrorless.

No it doesn't.

And that scintillatingly repartee, folks, is the heart of the full EF mount vs. thin mount divide.

More and more each day I believe Canon will eventually have to offer both because each group defines the upside of mirrorless so fundamentally differently.

- A

no. there is just one small group who still does not /want to) understand that they can continue to use all of their precious EF lenses even when Canon moves to a new native mirrorless mount. And that Canon can and will offer "chunky" bodies too, even when they move to a new "slim" mount.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Would you actually believe I was serious?

Dilbert seemed to relish bringing disdain (bullying if you like) on himself and was tolerated but seldom truly appreciated. At some point folks have to accept responsibility for their outlandish comments that rile the vast majority of readers. CR regulars are not a bunch of monsters.

Let mirrorless and DSLRs coexist and be loved by whomever chooses to love them and forget the nonsense. All I would care about is having a high quality camera that serves my needs. Since I use larger heavy lenses a lot that will never be a dinky little camera without a decent grip.

Jack

 

[unfocused]

Now we have 12 pages, all based on a rumor that Canon is going to soon offer everyone the camera they want. Sore losers are one thing, but why do we seem to have so many sore winners?

 

[ahsanford]

More and more each day I believe Canon will eventually have to offer both because each group defines the upside of mirrorless so fundamentally differently.

- A

no. there is just one small group who still does not /want to) understand that they can continue to use all of their precious EF lenses even when Canon moves to a new native mirrorless mount. And that Canon can and will offer "chunky" bodies too, even when they move to a new "slim" mount.

There are two potential avenues to take, and neither is a clear win-win that makes perfect sense to solely pursue. There are therefore two different camps of views on this, and what I continue to find shocking is that a nontrivial percentage of folks in each camp cannot fathom what the other group is thinking.

You and (some of) the thin folks cannot fathom why Canon would walk away from ideal / seamless / consistent use with over 100 million lenses.

Meanwhile, some of the full EF mount folks cannot fathom the value of a smaller rig, adaptors and the need to (potentially) have to buy new lenses for optimal AF performance.

- A

 

[Ozarker]

Now we have 12 pages, all based on a rumor that Canon is going to soon offer everyone the camera they want. Sore losers are one thing, but why do we seem to have so many sore winners?

;D Because that will never be the case.

 

[Yasko]

There are two potential avenues to take, and neither is a clear win-win that makes perfect sense to solely pursue. There are therefore two different camps of views on this, and what I continue to find shocking is that a nontrivial percentage of folks in each camp cannot fathom what the other group is thinking.

You and (some of) the thin folks cannot fathom why Canon would walk away from ideal / seamless / consistent use with over 100 million lenses.

Meanwhile, some of the full EF mount folks cannot fathom the value of a smaller rig, adaptors and the need to (potentially) have to buy new lenses for optimal AF performance.

- A

I think many can fathom the advantages of a slim mount for a new mirrorless of Canon. But with this thought swings the fear that Canon might want to sit itself on this new mount and abandon the old one, render all of their EF lenses outdated and with imperfect AF performance (and may be optical performance, too).
I have just invested a lot of money in a 35 f/2 and the 70-200 f/2.8, so I do think that way a little bit... and as a hobbyist, my budget is really strechted already...

Have a nice week everyone.

 

[AvTvM]

with every new version of a lens, the previous one will be "outdated" and the new one will (hopefully) offer advantages in IQ and/or handling abd functionality eg AF and IS performance. even if it is just the introduction of a MK. II or Mk. III version of an EF lens. same with camera bodies.

all the "new mirrorless slim mount Angst" would only be rational and understandable, if existing EF lenses could not be used in conjunction with it (as in the Canon FD to EF transition back in 1987).

it will not happen. all EF lenses will remain fully functional by means of a little adaptor tube. they will perform as well as they did on the latest Canon DSLRs *in live view mode*. new native lenses however will offer advantages and unleash the full potential of mirrorless cameras without flapping mirrors and sub-mirror assemblies in the lightpath, without separate, easily de-calibrated AF array not in sensor plane, without big heavy glass prism, and hopefully soon also without mechanical shutter curtains.

things will be slimmer, lighter, fitter. more muscle, less fat!
just do it Canon, even when a minority of your customers has not understood YET what the switch means and what it does not mean. things they are a'changin ..

 

[Mikehit]

things will be slimmer, lighter, fitter. more muscle, less fat!
just do it Canon, even when a minority of your customers has not understood YET what the switch means and what it does not mean. things they are a'changin ..

Ever heard the phrase 'knocking on an open door'...?

 

[AvTvM]

Ever heard the phrase 'knocking on an open door'...?

yes. But i see that many doors still seem to be pretty much closed and need some more knockin' ... ;D

What really amuses me is how some people as well as Canon / Nikon themselves are having such difficulty getting their heads around the rather simple transition from mirrorslappers to *traditional" mirrorless cameras (= camera bricks + polished glass junks up front) when the next step in the evolution of image capture is almost here ... apparently they cannot see the LIGHT ... yet! ;D

https://petapixel.com/2017/08/04/heres-first-81-megapixel-photo-light-l16-16-camera-camera/
https://light.co/

The longer Canon (and Nikon) delay worthy mirrorless camera systems, the higher the chance it will have been leapfrogged already. I would not mind at all switching directly from my current gear to a really small, light, inexpensive "computational camera" with potential for IQ and functionality way beyond what *legacy* cameras with or without mirror ever can offer.

 

[Mikehit]

Ever heard the phrase 'knocking on an open door'...?

yes. But i see that many doors still seem to be pretty much closed and need some more knockin' ... ;D

What really amuses me is how some people as well as Canon / Nikon themselves are having such difficulty getting their heads around the rather simple transition from mirrorslappers to *traditional" mirrorless cameras (= camera bricks + polished glass junks up front) when the next step in the evolution of image capture is almost here ... apparently they cannot see the LIGHT ... yet! ;D

The longer Canon (and Nikon) delay worthy mirrorless camera systems, the higher the chance it will have been leapfrogged already. I would not mind at all switching directly from my current gear to a really small, light, inexpensive "computational camera" with potential for IQ and functionality way beyond what *legacy* cameras with or without mirror ever can offer.

Who said Canon and Nikon are having difficulty getting their head around anything? That is your simple-minded assumption based on a view of 'urgency' which itself based on a market sector that is tiny compared to DSLR and has shown signs of shrinking in the last year or so. It is not a matter of 'if' but 'when'. Neither Canon nor Nikon are blind to the needs to develop mirrorless systems, as is shown by announcements from both that they are developing at FF mirrorless cameras.
There is market resistance and inertia out there and CaNikon are quite happy to use the time thta gives them to develop a system that is not only mirrorless but actually does so in a body that features their far superior haptics.

As for 'leapfrogging'...being leapfrogged by Sony who see the need to pile everything they can into a body because that is the only way they can get market traction, and in so doing they alienate all astrophotographers because their in-camera processing obliterates stars. Which makes me wonder how much of Sony's much-praised sensor is software-based rather than sensor-based? A camera is an image-making device and when you look at all aspects of using such a device, Sony has not 'leapfrogged' Canon nor Nikon. They have simply developed a slightly different path.

 

[AvTvM]

Sony has leapfrogged Canon in multiple ways. Canon was ahead in sensors, Sony leapfrogged it. Big time. Canon brings EOS M with crop sensor, Nikon brings Nikon 1 with dwarf-sensor, Sony leapfrogs them with FF-sensored A7 series and now A9. It is not "a slightly different path". It is plain and clear leapfrogging.

 

[BillB]

Ever heard the phrase 'knocking on an open door'...?

yes. But i see that many doors still seem to be pretty much closed and need some more knockin' ... ;D

What really amuses me is how some people as well as Canon / Nikon themselves are having such difficulty getting their heads around the rather simple transition from mirrorslappers to *traditional" mirrorless cameras (= camera bricks + polished glass junks up front) when the next step in the evolution of image capture is almost here ... apparently they cannot see the LIGHT ... yet! ;D

https://petapixel.com/2017/08/04/heres-first-81-megapixel-photo-light-l16-16-camera-camera/
https://light.co/

The longer Canon (and Nikon) delay worthy mirrorless camera systems, the higher the chance it will have been leapfrogged already. I would not mind at all switching directly from my current gear to a really small, light, inexpensive "computational camera" with potential for IQ and functionality way beyond what *legacy* cameras with or without mirror ever can offer.

 

[Mikehit]

Sony has leapfrogged Canon in multiple ways. Canon was ahead in sensors, Sony leapfrogged it. Big time. Canon brings EOS M with crop sensor, Nikon brings Nikon 1 with dwarf-sensor, Sony leapfrogs them with FF-sensored A7 series and now A9. It is not "a slightly different path". It is plain and clear leapfrogging.

'Many ways'. You mean 2.

Well Canon has FF sensors as well. I presume what you mean is they have a mirrorless with FF sensor - and that is a 'slightly different path'.
Sony has kept their form factor for their mirrorless by making it as small as possible because that is where a lot of the natter sees an advantage of mirrorless. But you can find many posts on forums where users wish Sony had gone with a larger body for use with large lenses because they find the A9 too small. It seems Sony are stuck in a rut as much as you claim Canon are.

Answer this question: if Sony did not have such excellent sensors, how much notice do you think their mirrorless cameras would have got? My guess it would have been 'nice idea, has potential' and that shows how important mirrorless as a camera design actually is.

 

[BillB]

Sony has leapfrogged Canon in multiple ways. Canon was ahead in sensors, Sony leapfrogged it. Big time. Canon brings EOS M with crop sensor, Nikon brings Nikon 1 with dwarf-sensor, Sony leapfrogs them with FF-sensored A7 series and now A9. It is not "a slightly different path". It is plain and clear leapfrogging.

'Many ways'. You mean 2.

Well Canon has FF sensors as well. I presume what you mean is they have a mirrorless with FF sensor - and that is a 'slightly different path'.
Sony has kept their form factor for their mirrorless by making it as small as possible because that is where a lot of the natter sees an advantage of mirrorless. But you can find many posts on forums where users wish Sony had gone with a larger body for use with large lenses because they find the A9 too small. It seems Sony are stuck in a rut as much as you claim Canon are.

Answer this question: if Sony did not have such excellent sensors, how much notice do you think their mirrorless cameras would have got? My guess it would have been 'nice idea, has potential' and that shows how important mirrorless as a camera design actually is.

And yet, in a very short time worthy mirrorless cameras will be produced by all three manufacturers at very reasonable prices, along with the lenses to clinch the deal, and the era of the DSLR will be over, or at least that is the way some people tell the story some of the time

 

[Mikehit]

And yet, in a very short time worthy mirrorless cameras will be produced by all three manufacturers at very reasonable prices, along with the lenses to clinch the deal, and the era of the DSLR will be over, or at least that is the way some people tell the story some of the time

'near future', 'very short time'...it would be interesting to know what people mean by these vague references.
35mm has been going for nearly a century. SLRs were invented 150 years ago. In those terms, 10 years for mirrorless to supplant it completely is a 'short time'.

AvTvM thinks he is being wonderfully prescient....I would say he is stating the bleeding obvious.