More Than One Active Full Frame Mirrorless Project at Canon? [CR1]
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Loswr
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AvTvM said:no. some people will continue to buy large cameras and large lenses. Others will hopefully get a chance to buy fully capable smaller cameras and fully capable compact lenses that will cover *the vast majority* of image capture situations very well. Big & heavy stuff will only be needed for special situations. And / or for XXL users who like/need things generally Texas size.
There you go again with *the vast majority*. For you. But you are not everyone, nor are you representative of everyone. Not even a majority, much less a *vast* majority.
Incidentally, if you actually thing a FF camera —with or without a mirror— will ever be used in *the vast majority* of image capture situations, you're delusional.
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Loswr
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jolyonralph said:neuroanatomist said:I guess in your future, we'll all have teeny tiny hands, and the laws of physics will no longer apply such that f/2.8 zooms and f/1.4 primes will be small and light.
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I'd like a future where people realise you don't always need a 2.8 zoom or a 1.4 prime to take a great photo.
I think (perhaps it's just a hope) that most people realize great photos can be taken with any gear. But...when I need to use a 70-200/2.8 (e.g. for indoor sports, like my kids on horseback in an arena), I want it to be comfortable. That's not the case with a tiny body hanging off the back of a big lens.
At some point in the future, assuming continued growth of the MILC market, Canon will likely have a broad lineup of MILCs, both APS-C and FF. There will presumably be 'pro' models with larger bodies (1- and/or 5-series equivalent), and compact FF lines (6-series equivalent, but smaller). All will have their place.
At issue here is where Canon goes initially. As the original rumor states, a likely scenario is a first FF MILC with a standard EF mount. I suspect something that's a close to 6-series features, and probably about the size of the 6D (thinner, but still with a full hand grip). That line will eventually move up-market (to 5-series features), and a new, smaller FF MILC will launch with a new mount and a small collection of slow lenses (mostly zooms, 1-2 primes, a mount adapter for EF).
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neuroanatomist said:AvTvM said:no. some people will continue to buy large cameras and large lenses. Others will hopefully get a chance to buy fully capable smaller cameras and fully capable compact lenses that will cover *the vast majority* of image capture situations very well. Big & heavy stuff will only be needed for special situations. And / or for XXL users who like/need things generally Texas size.
There you go again with *the vast majority*. For you. But you are not everyone, nor are you representative of everyone. Not even a majority, much less a *vast* majority.
Incidentally, if you actually thing a FF camera —with or without a mirror— will ever be used in *the vast majority* of image capture situations, you're delusional.
Given the preponderance and preference for smartphones, I think AvTvMs comment
is quite reasonable. He referred to 'others' getting a chance, not a 'vast majority' getting a chance. And he commented on 'the others' getting a chance for a smaller camera for a 'vast majority' of their needs. What is the problem with what he is saying. I, and a lot of others have DSLR but also a 'smaller' camera for general toting around because it is smaller (ie more portable) for those occasions I am not sure if I will see anything to take a picture of. Others use a camera phone for the same reason
I often disagree with AvTvM but I think here you seem to have jumped in a bit quickly.
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unfocused
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Okay. So Canon is considering:
They already make:
Everybody gets something they want. Everybody (reasonable) should be happy. Why do we need six pages of people telling one another that they don't deserve to get the camera that Canon is either already making or going to make for them?
- A native EF Mount mirrorless (Makes some people happy)
- A new lens mount mirrorless (Makes other people happy)
- A fixed mount mirrorless (Makes some more people happy)
They already make:
- Several APS-C mirrorless (Makes a lot of people happy)
- World's most compact DSLR (Makes some people happy)
- A broad range of APS-C DSLRs from beginner to professional level (Makes most photographers happy)
- Several full-frame DSLRs ranging from enthusiast to most demanding professional (Makes some people happy)
Everybody gets something they want. Everybody (reasonable) should be happy. Why do we need six pages of people telling one another that they don't deserve to get the camera that Canon is either already making or going to make for them?
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SecureGSM said:
Your needs and my needs are different. I own a 5D Mark IV and I don't mind if Canon mirrorless camera have the same size if that mean better ergonomic, protection, battery life, usability. It might even lighter without a mirror.
Shooting 8-16 hrs wedding with Sony A7RII body will be more difficult than DSLR. I'm not sure the a7RIII will address alot of professional events photographer needs (dual SD, instant on, focusing in the dark, battery, ergonomic, reliability). I hope it does so it give me another option to consider when Canon finally release their mirrorless camera.
Next year will be very exciting for photographers. We will have alot of choice between Canon, Nikon and Sony FF mirrorless camera. If Canon mirrorless camera doesn't pan out, the a7RIII will be out for a while and be cheaper with the looming rumors of yet another Sony mirrorless soon to be release on the horizon.
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Loswr
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Mikehit said:neuroanatomist said:AvTvM said:no. some people will continue to buy large cameras and large lenses. Others will hopefully get a chance to buy fully capable smaller cameras and fully capable compact lenses that will cover *the vast majority* of image capture situations very well. Big & heavy stuff will only be needed for special situations. And / or for XXL users who like/need things generally Texas size.
There you go again with *the vast majority*. For you. But you are not everyone, nor are you representative of everyone. Not even a majority, much less a *vast* majority.
Incidentally, if you actually thing a FF camera —with or without a mirror— will ever be used in *the vast majority* of image capture situations, you're delusional.
Given the preponderance and preference for smartphones, I think AvTvMs comment
is quite reasonable. He referred to 'others' getting a chance, not a 'vast majority' getting a chance. And he commented on 'the others' getting a chance for a smaller camera for a 'vast majority' of their needs. What is the problem with what he is saying. I, and a lot of others have DSLR but also a 'smaller' camera for general toting around because it is smaller (ie more portable) for those occasions I am not sure if I will see anything to take a picture of. Others use a camera phone for the same reason
I often disagree with AvTvM but I think here you seem to have jumped in a bit quickly.
I diasgree. As I pointed out previously, Canon bundles 55-250mm and 75-300mm lenses with entry level kits, and for many people that ability to 'zoom in close' is what separates an ILC from their phone camera.
I do agree that a smaller FF MILC would be nice, and I suspect we'll see one from Canon...eventually. But I think their first foray into FF MILC will have an EF mount. No doubt AvTvM will be here on CR complaining at that point (but then, that's normal here, right?).
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I'd buy it, does not matter which option: EF mount or new mount + adapter.
Just give me a modern body, good EVF and eye AF tracking.
Just give me a modern body, good EVF and eye AF tracking.
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sanj said:
I doubt the major players are that stupid. At the very least, I expect that anyone with even a rudimentary knowledge of numbers could look at the publicly available CIPA data and see that $213MM in dSLRs have shipped so far this year, compared to $157MM in MILCs.
Rather than 'value over dSLRs', saying mirrorless has 'value in addition to dSLRs' is certainly true.
Will MILCs overtake dSLRs? Maybe. Even if so, the question is when. Based on the trends over the past couple of years, it may not happen before both are rendered irrelevant and we're all shooting with the equivalent of Canon's Wondercamera (ultrahigh res sensor, fixed zoom lens) or some sort of holographic 4D brain-linked imager.
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unfocused
Photos/Photo Book Reviews: www.thecuriouseye.com
AvTvM said:
If the last DLSR is made 20 years from now, then I really don't care if mirrorless is the future.
[quote author=John Maynard Keynes] But this long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead.[/quote]
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I found the final specs for the 6D2 to be a bit of a head scratcher. Now, in light of Canon likely introducing an EF mount full frame MLC next year. Canons thinking may be more clear. Canon, being Canon and masters of market segmentation, have carved out a nice little niche for another full frame camera. The stills and especially video of the 6D2 will not be difficult to surpass without impinging on the market for the 5D4. Brilliant. Canon has done a remarkable job of slow walking 4K into their consumer products but they can't hold out indefinitely. This may be the camera that finally gets video right. They need something to move users from DSLRs and that sounds like the best bet. Not sure what else would do it.
First full frame MLC has to be native EF otherwise lens sales would tank as buyers would consider EF mount becoming obsolete. If MLC sales materialize, canon could release a compact mount at some later date.
First full frame MLC has to be native EF otherwise lens sales would tank as buyers would consider EF mount becoming obsolete. If MLC sales materialize, canon could release a compact mount at some later date.
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With the capabilities of most new Canon cameras..5D4, 1DX2 etc (maybe not 6D2 so much) one concern of so many people ie the whole DR issue is now largely irrelevant.
As far as my personal use goes, which is on a tripod in Liveview 99% of the time, the main advantage of mirrorless that I see ( I have an M5 and 5D4) , ie good sensor based focusing, image preview and the ability to focus/meter almost anywhere on the image already exists in the current DSLR as well. The only other thing is that I would no longer need to AFMA lenses. Which my shooting technique right now already negates if I so choose.
So one could actually argue that DSLR's have a fair bit of life yet.
I hope they do make a FF MILC that uses EF lenses. I really don't think a slightly smaller camera with poor balance and cramped ergonomics will save nearly enough weight to make any big difference to most of us, but using L lenses already paid for does.
I think most modern offerings either dslr or milc, have reached the point of "good enough", and for most of us the differences will come down to shooting style or specific needs.
As far as my personal use goes, which is on a tripod in Liveview 99% of the time, the main advantage of mirrorless that I see ( I have an M5 and 5D4) , ie good sensor based focusing, image preview and the ability to focus/meter almost anywhere on the image already exists in the current DSLR as well. The only other thing is that I would no longer need to AFMA lenses. Which my shooting technique right now already negates if I so choose.
So one could actually argue that DSLR's have a fair bit of life yet.
I hope they do make a FF MILC that uses EF lenses. I really don't think a slightly smaller camera with poor balance and cramped ergonomics will save nearly enough weight to make any big difference to most of us, but using L lenses already paid for does.
I think most modern offerings either dslr or milc, have reached the point of "good enough", and for most of us the differences will come down to shooting style or specific needs.
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