New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Re: 5D3 New Firmware

The video blogs had a pretty meh reaction to to it so I'm still hoping, but I think Canon is too stuck in it's new old ways to get it, sad to say, so I'm probably kidding myself. It's surely the bean counters and MBA types making a mess of it all and not the engineers.

I mean they did finally get it enough to add 1 series AF to 5 series and boost to a full 6fps and all so they improved and they did get much of it right, but was it because they got it or because they were still just laying back and only reacting when they had to? Had they not, if you think about it, the D800 woulda made the 5D3 look silly. The fact they still muddled up some video features and autoiso (and by muddled i basically mean crippled for ridiculous reasons) you do wonder. And the fact they thought they could just let the low iso sensor performance sit there in the same spot for a full half decade now makes you wonder too. They did get the basic body specs pretty sweet finally at least, for whatever reason.

The message got thru to Canon, and they opened a dedicated support facility in Hollywood, and are in the process of trotting out cinema bodies and lenses.

It was probably unrealistic to expect Canon to turn a 5D MK III into a 4K cinema body with XLR jacks, etc. but some actually thought it would happen and were disappointed. Its a still body that does video and they are obviously going to differentiate it from higher end video bodies.

Thats a pretty standard marketing scheme, but its also a practical one. Some want a stills body with video, and some want a all out video body that can also do stills.

 

[Marsu42]

If in Manual mode... why not just adjust your exposure yourself instead of setting the camera to do it? (probably cannons logic)

For me, it would be extremely convenient too be able too shoot in m with a fixed depth of field and setting the shutter to the min. I think I don't get motion blur. Using auto iso, the camera then has to choose the lowest iso to minimize noise.

The problem is, that with no ec available on m, you have to rely 100% on camera metering which is a joke - I know best if the camera will under- or overexpose the scene I want to shoot, spot metering and so on isn't much of a help either. The result: I never shoot m with auto iso, but mostly use Av.

Are any of you complaining to the right people, namely Canon, or are you just making your cases here? I've sent e-mails to Canon USA about the 1/250 maximum and EC omission with "M" and Auto-ISO. Just a suggestion.

At least their marketing dept. might have a good laught ... you could as well write "please lower the 5d3 price $1000", my 2 cents.

 

[RichATL]

For me, it would be extremely convenient too be able too shoot in m with a fixed depth of field and setting the shutter to the min. I think I don't get motion blur. Using auto iso, the camera then has to choose the lowest iso to minimize noise.

The problem is, that with no ec available on m, you have to rely 100% on camera metering which is a joke - I know best if the camera will under- or overexpose the scene I want to shoot, spot metering and so on isn't much of a help either. The result: I never shoot m with auto iso, but mostly use Av.

Well, by your logic.. you knowing how best to expose the scene... why not open up the ISO, Shutter, or Aperture? Thats all EC is anyway.

 

[Marsu42]

Well, by your logic.. you knowing how best to expose the scene... why not open up the ISO, Shutter, or Aperture? Thats all EC is anyway.

To be exact: I don't know "best" how to expose or I'd shoot full manual only if I have the time, but I have some experience how wrong the camera metering will be - that's why I'd like to have ec in m.

 

[wickidwombat]

If in Manual mode... why not just adjust your exposure yourself instead of setting the camera to do it? (probably cannons logic)

For me, it would be extremely convenient too be able too shoot in m with a fixed depth of field and setting the shutter to the min. I think I don't get motion blur. Using auto iso, the camera then has to choose the lowest iso to minimize noise.

The problem is, that with no ec available on m, you have to rely 100% on camera metering which is a joke - I know best if the camera will under- or overexpose the scene I want to shoot, spot metering and so on isn't much of a help either. The result: I never shoot m with auto iso, but mostly use Av.

Exactly I would love to see this implemented however
personally I find it easier to hit the iso button than the EC button so in manual its actually easier to change iso on the fly than to do EC

what I would really love to be able to do is remap the rear wheel to be iso and it only changes aperture while holding down the iso button that way you have very quick acces to both shutter speed and iso without having to press another button.

fuji nearly got the auto iso right with the x10 they even have the wonderfull EC dial on top however in manual that dial doesnt do anything it would be great if they enabled that dial on future firmware to be able to EC the iso in manual mode.

I dont know of any manufacturer that has auto iso that is really optimal yet

you would think they would talk to some photographers when actually designing stuff wouldnt you?

 

[Marsu42]

I dont know of any manufacturer that has auto iso that is really optimal yet

... which is very amazing, since iso is only the 3rd thing to calculate with apart from shutter speed & aperture. Flash may complicate things, but really, it can't be that hard to get these basic features right? Some crippling might be due to marketing concerns, but other things like ec on m really sounds like photog's input doesn't reach the devs.

 

[briansquibb]

I dont know of any manufacturer that has auto iso that is really optimal yet

... which is very amazing, since iso is only the 3rd thing to calculate with apart from shutter speed & aperture. Flash may complicate things, but really, it can't be that hard to get these basic features right? Some crippling might be due to marketing concerns, but other things like ec on m really sounds like photog's input doesn't reach the devs.

Auto Iso works for me on on the 1D4 - you get faux M with auto iso and ec when you know the settings

 

[wickidwombat]

I dont know of any manufacturer that has auto iso that is really optimal yet

... which is very amazing, since iso is only the 3rd thing to calculate with apart from shutter speed & aperture. Flash may complicate things, but really, it can't be that hard to get these basic features right? Some crippling might be due to marketing concerns, but other things like ec on m really sounds like photog's input doesn't reach the devs.

Auto Iso works for me on on the 1D4 - you get faux M with auto iso and ec when you know the settings

yeah thats as good as it gets for canon, even the fuji x10 is better in auto iso implementation now to just get them to enable the EC dial in M mode...

but while your method works its more of a work around the problem than a slick implementation of how a simple easy to use auto iso in M mode with EC should work

 

[wickidwombat]

Re: 5D3 New Firmware

It's surely the bean counters and MBA types making a mess of it all and not the engineers.

yes exactly and how is it that they can transcend any industry and create just as much of a balls up
do they actually teach them how to stuff things up completely when they do that useless MBA?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Are any of you complaining to the right people, namely Canon, or are you just making your cases here? I've sent e-mails to Canon USA about the 1/250 maximum and EC omission with "M" and Auto-ISO. Just a suggestion.

Both. Although I probably should fire off more direct Canon emails and a few less forum posts.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Well, just a logical observation here...
If in Manual mode... why not just adjust your exposure yourself instead of setting the camera to do it? (probably cannons logic)

Well we do just that.

The thing is what about when you are shooting fast stuff in conditions that are constantly and rapidly changing. You won't have time to set it yourself and even using C1-C3 can be a little slow and a pain.

And the funny thing is, that by limiting the min shutter speed to something slow they keep it useful more for the situations where you can do it yourself as you say and less for the scenarios where you can't and AutoISO would be more necessarily useful.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: 5D3 New Firmware

The video blogs had a pretty meh reaction to to it so I'm still hoping, but I think Canon is too stuck in it's new old ways to get it, sad to say, so I'm probably kidding myself. It's surely the bean counters and MBA types making a mess of it all and not the engineers.

I mean they did finally get it enough to add 1 series AF to 5 series and boost to a full 6fps and all so they improved and they did get much of it right, but was it because they got it or because they were still just laying back and only reacting when they had to? Had they not, if you think about it, the D800 woulda made the 5D3 look silly. The fact they still muddled up some video features and autoiso (and by muddled i basically mean crippled for ridiculous reasons) you do wonder. And the fact they thought they could just let the low iso sensor performance sit there in the same spot for a full half decade now makes you wonder too. They did get the basic body specs pretty sweet finally at least, for whatever reason.

The message got thru to Canon, and they opened a dedicated support facility in Hollywood, and are in the process of trotting out cinema bodies and lenses.

It was probably unrealistic to expect Canon to turn a 5D MK III into a 4K cinema body with XLR jacks, etc. but some actually thought it would happen and were disappointed. Its a still body that does video and they are obviously going to differentiate it from higher end video bodies.

Thats a pretty standard marketing scheme, but its also a practical one. Some want a stills body with video, and some want a all out video body that can also do stills.

The wrong message got through. What revolution is there in a 20k video cam that is good? OK they have some smaller ones etc but still they killed their unique goose chasing after that and crippling the goose. And it's not things as basic as a bit higher IPM bitrates, focus peaking, zebras and crop modes are shockingly advanced features!

 

[briansquibb]

Are any of you complaining to the right people, namely Canon, or are you just making your cases here? I've sent e-mails to Canon USA about the 1/250 maximum and EC omission with "M" and Auto-ISO. Just a suggestion.

The M with autoiso and ec is available in the 1D4

Set Safety Shuft ON - ISO speed
Set Shutter Speed range minimum to the desired minimum speed
Set Auto ISo on
Shoot in AV mode

In the field the ISO will go up and down to get the correct exposure. EC can be set at this point
If the ISO gets to the minimum (100 even if L is set) then the shutter speed will adjusted upwards

In the field this works for me - I dont dynamically change the shutter speed in the middle of a shoot.

Would this work on the 5DIII if just the restriction on minimum shutter speed was removed?

For a 5DIII user I would be more interested in linking the metering to the AF point

 

[AvTvM]

The M with autoiso and ec is available in the 1D4

we are talking about the 5D 3 and a possible FW Update for it. So forget your stupid 1D 4 for a while and its totally awkward scratch-yourself-on-the-back-of-your-head implementation of pseudo Auto-ISO.

The 5D III and any other Canon EOS camera needs a firmware with a full and unfettered implementation of Auto-ISO.

This means:
* user-settable upper and lower limits for 1.) ISO 2.) shutter time and 3.) aperture - to be used as required in various exposure modes [Auto], P, Av, Tv, M
* plus regular operation of exposure correction in M with Auto-ISO on
... anything less is unacceptable and total crap.

oh ... and just to make sure: we want it NOW and we do NOT want it hidden away under unlabeled custom functions 91,92 to 99 plus safety shift enabled and CTRL-ALT-DELETE-DIRECT-PRINT-button pressed simultaneously ... oh no, we want it readily and easily accessible!

 

[John Thomas]

The M with autoiso and ec is available in the 1D4

we are talking about the 5D 3 and a possible FW Update for it. So forget your stupid 1D 4 for a while and its totally awkward scratch-yourself-on-the-back-of-your-head implementation of pseudo Auto-ISO.

The 5D III and any other Canon EOS camera needs a firmware with a full and unfettered implementation of Auto-ISO.

This means:
* user-settable upper and lower limits for 1.) ISO 2.) shutter time and 3.) aperture - to be used as required in various exposure modes [Auto], P, Av, Tv, M
* plus regular operation of exposure correction in M with Auto-ISO on
... anything less is unacceptable and total crap.

oh ... and just to make sure: we want it NOW and we do NOT want it hidden away under unlabeled custom functions 91,92 to 99 plus safety shift enabled and CTRL-ALT-DELETE-DIRECT-PRINT-button pressed simultaneously ... oh no, we want it readily and easily accessible!

...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.

They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.

Just sayin'

 

[Marsu42]

...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.

But better this way than the other way around (forced longer shutter speeds for IS lenses) because IS doesn't help if your scene has motion, it just dampens your shaking hand.

That having said, all customization of current dslrs is a joke given the fact that you've got an embedded computer in your hand. Even on my 25 year old eos620 with date back, I could program in custom shutter-aperture curves!

And since the Canon firmware is written as it is, even addons like magic lantern cannot do that much outside live view or with a considerable lag due to overriding Canon's settings.

But that's the future I'm afraid: the more capable devices get, the more concerned manufacturers will get with feature-locking them (see Apple and all other smartphones) to keep control over their product line.

 

[AvTvM]

...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.
They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.
Just sayin'

I will not go through this endless loop again. Please read up on how exactly Auto-ISO is implemented on the Nikon D4 and D800 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16). This is as good as it gets currently. Although it is not complete or "perfect" either.

 

[briansquibb]

The M with autoiso and ec is available in the 1D4

we are talking about the 5D 3 and a possible FW Update for it. So forget your stupid 1D 4 for a while and its totally awkward scratch-yourself-on-the-back-of-your-head implementation of pseudo Auto-ISO.

The 5D III and any other Canon EOS camera needs a firmware with a full and unfettered implementation of Auto-ISO.

This means:
* user-settable upper and lower limits for 1.) ISO 2.) shutter time and 3.) aperture - to be used as required in various exposure modes [Auto], P, Av, Tv, M
* plus regular operation of exposure correction in M with Auto-ISO on
... anything less is unacceptable and total crap.

oh ... and just to make sure: we want it NOW and we do NOT want it hidden away under unlabeled custom functions 91,92 to 99 plus safety shift enabled and CTRL-ALT-DELETE-DIRECT-PRINT-button pressed simultaneously ... oh no, we want it readily and easily accessible!

My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem

As for M mode with autoiso and ec - I can see the issues with that - so I guess that is personal preference.

PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all

 

[AvTvM]

My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

 

[briansquibb]

My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

I understood you wanted to control the shutter speed, aperture and use autoiso with EC as well.

Is that not what you want to do??

With fixed AV and TV how would you want the camera to behave when iso gets to the minimum or the maximum then?