New 5D Mark III Firmware Before the End of May [CR2]

[AvTvM]

My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

I understood you wanted to control the shutter speed, aperture and use autoiso with EC as well.
Is that not what you want to do??
With fixed AV and TV how would you want the camera to behave when iso gets to the minimum or the maximum then?

yes, but that is not all! In P and Av I additionally want the cam to take focal length (also wioth zoom s!) and presence of an (activated) IS into account ... to automatically determine a suitable minimum shutter time with respect to avoiding camera shake induced blur - unless I specifically set a shutter time as lower limit.

And I want it implemented in an as user-friendly fashion as in the Nikon D4 and D800!
There you can EITHER set a min. shutter speed OR set min. shutter speed to AUTO .. .and the cam will determine a suitable lower limit based on focal length in use (1/x) AND if desired, this algorithm can then be further finetuned towards using somewhat longer times (if the user trusts his steady-holding technique) or towards somewhat faster shutter times (if one feels a bit shaky ... ).

This is much more complex to describe here than to actually use the feature on the Nikon. Just read up in the link to the dpreview D800 review provided in one my previous posts.

If implemented in such a way, the Canon 5D3 would be egonomically even superior to Nikon D4/D800 in thei sregard ... because on the 5D3 these settings would be stored as part of the overall camera-setup in the 3 Custom-modes [C1...C3] on the main-mode dial from there the can be recalled instantly. E.g. I routinely store a "tripod-photography setting" under C2 on my 7D. In that setup, I would set a much lonfger minimum shutter speed for Auto-ISO than in setting C3, shich is my "action-oriented setup" (handheld).

Those custom settings C1/C2/C3 on the main mode dial are one area where Canon's implementation is far superior to Nikon's concept of storing user settings in 2 separate "storage banks".

On Canon 1D/s/X cameras there is no mode dial, so this does not apply to them and makes operation somewhat different - and less efficient than on 5D II//III and 7D/60D. But this is admittedly a matter of personal preference and what you are most used to.

 

[John Thomas]

...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.
They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.
Just sayin'

I will not go through this endless loop again. Please read up on how exactly Auto-ISO is implemented on the Nikon D4 and D800 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16). This is as good as it gets currently. Although it is not complete or "perfect" either.

Read it, thanks for the link. However I think that having much more precise control (ie. in +/- 1/3 stops or 1/2 stops, WRT Lens' Focal Length) is better than having a 5 step scale of -0.5xF, -0.25xF, 0, 2xF, 4xF - where F is the lens' focal length like the Nikon has.

Also, I think that my proposal is much more open to the future cases (being linear) compared with Nikon's which seems exponential / logarithmic.

As for GUI implementation, rather than a slider, I would propose a spin edit control (for ex see http://documentation.devexpress.com/#WindowsForms/clsDevExpressXtraEditorsSpinEdittopic) which is much more compact space wise and can "hold" much more values than a slider. But if Canon want to use sliders like in AFMA screen, no problem for me. Just to implement it.

just my2c

 

[AvTvM]

...And to take in account IS. The AutoISO doesn't take in account the IS. Think 70-200 f/2.8 IS. What Tv should I choose for AutoISO? 70? 200? Auto? But "Auto" raises the ISO on 1/(FLength) basis (ok, more or less) thus mitigating the advantage of having an IS on your lens.
They need to implement also an option like "Exposure Bias" in 1/3 stop in/decrements to handle this.
Just sayin'

I will not go through this endless loop again. Please read up on how exactly Auto-ISO is implemented on the Nikon D4 and D800 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e/16). This is as good as it gets currently. Although it is not complete or "perfect" either.

Read it, thanks for the link. However I think that having much more precise control (ie. in +/- 1/3 stops or 1/2 stops, WRT Lens' Focal Length) is better than having a 5 step scale of -0.5xF, -0.25xF, 0, 2xF, 4xF - where F is the lens' focal length like the Nikon has.

Also, I think that my proposal is much more open to the future cases (being linear) compared with Nikon's which seems exponential / logarithmic.

As for GUI implementation, rather than a slider, I would propose a spin edit control (for ex see http://documentation.devexpress.com/#WindowsForms/clsDevExpressXtraEditorsSpinEdittopic) which is much more compact space wise and can "hold" much more values than a slider. But if Canon want to use sliders like in AFMA screen, no problem for me. Just to implement it.

just my2c

Sorry, I cannot follow re. spin control .. what would that lookk like ... got a picture?

I do not have the impression that Nikon's fine-tune feature is logarithmic .. but I agree with you, that users should have even more direct control over Auto-ISO behaviour ... which parameter (Av,Tv,ISO) should be adjusted first, which second, which third and under which circumstances (min - max ranges, focal length used, IS active or not).

And I also do NOT consider the Nikon D4/D800 Auto-ISO feature to be the single best imaginable solution to this problem. I just know, it is far superior to any Canon implementation up to now. This is why I would like to see a better Auto-ISO implementation on Canon cameras ... making it fully functional AND user-controllable AND as easy to use as possible!

 

[briansquibb]

Perhaps it is me but M mode means fixing shutter speed and aperture and autoiso sets the metering - with ec for fine control

Lets just focus on this for the moment.

What do you propose to do when the iso hits either the max or the min?

 

[AvTvM]

Perhaps it is me but M mode means fixing shutter speed and aperture and autoiso sets the metering - with ec for fine control

Lets just focus on this for the moment.

What do you propose to do when the iso hits either the max or the min?

we are looking at more than one mode:

* M - is as you say. Av + Tv chosen by photog, camera choses AUto ISO. EC needs to be working "as normal". Min and max ISO Speed - if set - would lead to under-/over exposure if threshold is hit.
Possibly some form of saftey shift could kick in, if activated by user ... allowing Av and/or Tv to be managed, if upper or lower threshold for these two parameters is not yet reached.

* P and Av: camera can manage ISO within user-specified range (upper/lower threshold value) and play with Tv ... either within user set upper/lower value or if set to AUTO ... then it would choose a suitable shutter time according to focal length and presence of activated IS and user-set finetuning (wowards faster or slower shutter times). AFAIK IS detection is missing even in Nikon D800/D4 iomplementation. Also mising is a clear user-settable prioritization of the two parameters ISO and shutter time ... meaning: first change ISO or first change shutter time or adjust both parameters at the same time but by a smaller amount?

* Tv ... camera can manage ISO within user specified range and Aperture within user set range (upper/lower value - can not even be set in Nikon's implementation] - and ultimately limited by lens max. aperture opening.

Thats it, as far as I can see it.

 

[briansquibb]

Perhaps it is me but M mode means fixing shutter speed and aperture and autoiso sets the metering - with ec for fine control

What do you propose to do when the iso hits either the max or the min?

we are looking at more than one mode:

* M - is as you say. Av + Tv chosen by photog, camera choses AUto ISO. EC needs to be working "as normal". Min and max ISO Speed - if set - would lead to under-/over exposure if threshold is hit.
Possibly some form of saftey shift could kick in, if activated by user ... allowing Av and/or Tv to be managed, if upper or lower threshold for these two parameters is not yet reached.

That is precisely what my faux M mode does on the 1D4 and the 1DX .....

The only improvement that could be made is a reduction of the 4 key presses for the min shutter speed

It would be good on the 5DIII to remove the min 1/250 shutter speed.

The biggest benefit will come with the inclusion of the AF point linked metering

 

[AvTvM]

That is precisely what my faux M mode does on the 1D4 and the 1DX .....

yes. I realize that. But "M" is only one mode. Nikon is even further ahead with Auto ISO in P and A(v).

It would be good on the 5DIII to remove the min 1/250 shutter speed.

That would be the bare minimum, but not nearly sufficient yet.

 

[opiuman]

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware

Shows a 1.1.3 available as of 06/19/12 under Windows 7 x64. No changelog posted yet? Downloading now.

 

[bdunbar79]

My stupid 1D4 does what you want the 5DIII to do. What is needed to improve the implementation is a minor menu change - although for me it isn't a problem
...
PS The implementation in my stupid 1D4 looks to be the same as in the stupid 1DX. Still better a stupid implementation than none at all

no, not at all, the 1D4 does not do, what I would like the 5D 3 do with regards to Auto-ISO.

But more importantly, you got the wording wrong!

Stupid Canon is implementing Auto ISO in the 1D X in the same stupid way as already in the 1D IV and 1D III before. Without any improvements to either functionality or the awkwardly stupid ergonomics.

It is still CTRL*ALT*DELETE*CUSTOM FUNCTION*SAFETYSHIFT*DIRECT-PRINT! STUPID. ;-)

If you are happy with that, good for you. Me ... I am not.

I understood you wanted to control the shutter speed, aperture and use autoiso with EC as well.
Is that not what you want to do??
With fixed AV and TV how would you want the camera to behave when iso gets to the minimum or the maximum then?

yes, but that is not all! In P and Av I additionally want the cam to take focal length (also wioth zoom s!) and presence of an (activated) IS into account ... to automatically determine a suitable minimum shutter time with respect to avoiding camera shake induced blur - unless I specifically set a shutter time as lower limit.

And I want it implemented in an as user-friendly fashion as in the Nikon D4 and D800!
There you can EITHER set a min. shutter speed OR set min. shutter speed to AUTO .. .and the cam will determine a suitable lower limit based on focal length in use (1/x) AND if desired, this algorithm can then be further finetuned towards using somewhat longer times (if the user trusts his steady-holding technique) or towards somewhat faster shutter times (if one feels a bit shaky ... ).

This is much more complex to describe here than to actually use the feature on the Nikon. Just read up in the link to the dpreview D800 review provided in one my previous posts.

If implemented in such a way, the Canon 5D3 would be egonomically even superior to Nikon D4/D800 in thei sregard ... because on the 5D3 these settings would be stored as part of the overall camera-setup in the 3 Custom-modes [C1...C3] on the main-mode dial from there the can be recalled instantly. E.g. I routinely store a "tripod-photography setting" under C2 on my 7D. In that setup, I would set a much lonfger minimum shutter speed for Auto-ISO than in setting C3, shich is my "action-oriented setup" (handheld).

Those custom settings C1/C2/C3 on the main mode dial are one area where Canon's implementation is far superior to Nikon's concept of storing user settings in 2 separate "storage banks".

On Canon 1D/s/X cameras there is no mode dial, so this does not apply to them and makes operation somewhat different - and less efficient than on 5D II//III and 7D/60D. But this is admittedly a matter of personal preference and what you are most used to.

This makes no sense to me. I want the 7D to be able to do all that too. But it doesn't. So guess what? I bought a different camera. If the 5D Mark III doesn't do what you want, then buy a different one. Seems pretty simple to me.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware

Shows a 1.1.3 available as of 06/19/12 under Windows 7 x64. No changelog posted yet? Downloading now.

it doesn't do much

no fixed autoiso

no zebra, focus peaking, higher bit rates or crop modes for video

 

[wickidwombat]

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer/eos_slr_camera_systems/eos_digital_slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_iii#DriversAndSoftware

Shows a 1.1.3 available as of 06/19/12 under Windows 7 x64. No changelog posted yet? Downloading now.

it doesn't do much

no fixed autoiso

no zebra, focus peaking, higher bit rates or crop modes for video

no customisation of the rate button :'(

 

[drjlo]

It's got nothing I need, so won't be doing a firmware update (with inherent possible dangers of any firmware update).

 

[V8Beast]

I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D

 

[wickidwombat]

I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D

you got ripped off I got 16 more M E G A P I X E L S!

 

[briansquibb]

I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D

you got ripped off I got 16 more M E G A P I X E L S!

... and gave APS-H crop mode

 

[Wideopen]

I don't know what you guys did wrong, but I downloaded the new firmware and got an extra three stops of dynamic range ;D A $500 rebate check magically ejected out of the card slot, too ;D

you got ripped off I got 16 more M E G A P I X E L S!

Same here!

 

[AvTvM]

and most importantly .. "Corrects mistakes in the Dutch, Italian, Korean, Norwegian, Polish, and Swedish menu screens"

looks like Canon management still did not get the message ...

 

[John Thomas]

That having said, all customization of current dslrs is a joke given the fact that you've got an embedded computer in your hand. Even on my 25 year old eos620 with date back, I could program in custom shutter-aperture curves!

How did you that?

...btw, the "embedded computer" from our hands is a monster, (especially if we talk about DiGIC 5) with a screen which has 1,040,000 dots. Remember, desktops and after that laptops had for many years a resolution of 1024x768 which means 786,432 dots...

I think that their main problem is that they are locked in pre-iPhone mindset. We have a super-CPU to do just one thing and it can do just in one way. Today the cameras are digital but still built with a mechanical mindset.

Guys, unlock that potential...

 

[John Thomas]

Sorry, I cannot follow re. spin control .. what would that lookk like ... got a picture?

I do not have the impression that Nikon's fine-tune feature is logarithmic .. but I agree with you, that users should have even more direct control over Auto-ISO behaviour ... which parameter (Av,Tv,ISO) should be adjusted first, which second, which third and under which circumstances (min - max ranges, focal length used, IS active or not).

Having the Nikon UI metaphor means that you are limited by the screen in showing values (see the attached image), while a spin edit (a box which increments or decrements values based on dial movements) allow much more values to hold inside. See for example the 2nd (animated) picture from the top at

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii/10

...besides that, yes, the real solution is to provide a professional GUI for exposure cuboid adjustments and save them as settings. What is exposure cuboid (aka incorrectly as "exposure triangle") see Matthew Miller's answer here:

http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/6598/what-is-the-exposure-triangle#12441

Any takers in how this GUI/workflow would be?

 

[Marsu42]

That having said, all customization of current dslrs is a joke given the fact that you've got an embedded computer in your hand. Even on my 25 year old eos620 with date back, I could program in custom shutter-aperture curves!

How did you that?

It was the hard-to-find digital back for film eos bodies (not the one that just printed the date into your picture). It was quite some time ago I used this, but you basically you could program a custom "creative setting" like the ones built-in (sports = max. shutter, landscape = max. aperture). And it had a tiny keyboard to attach, those were the good ol' times of Canon being innovative ... see http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/eos/eoscamera/620/index3.htm