New Cinema EOS Above the C300?

[Ed_5D]

35K eh.... good luck Canon. The price point on the C300 was ridiculos compared to functionality, can't help wonder why it should be any better on any new camera.

Look at Sony (FS700 for 8K)... and let's see what Panasonic throws out there in 4-5 days.

Well, if Canon is putting out a camera for $30-35k, then it better compete with and come damn close to Arri's Alexa (2k, dynamic range of film, etc). It certainly has to beat the Red Epic by a good amount.

That said, its still a small niche camera. But, I imagine some of the tech would trickle down to an EOS 4k camera, so, it's at least worth watching for that reason.

Close to ALEXA? good luck with that.... ALEXA is in a class by its own... not even EPIC goes there... you have to work with it and the do the Post Production process to know what i'm talking about here... Alexa is worth every penny. It is like a really amazing Film Cinema Camera simulator... just amazing... the dynamic range, organic film grain and image quality in general vs. the weight of the files is just... jaw dropping.
With EPIC what you might be saving on camera equipment you must invest in post production infrastructure because of the stupidly heavy data it outputs... and without proxys (as in red one) is almost impossible to manage.

 

[bp]

I think maybe CR should stick to consumer-to-semi-pro-level rumors, because it seems like people don't get that this would be a whole different level of camera. Post after post comparing this rumor to the FS700 - haha

In other news, Nissan Europe may develop a new Formula One car, priced at $800K... and the verdict from the CR crowd is that it is way overpriced compared to the upcoming Scion FR-S, and Nissan should just improve the Altima first. ???

 

[preppyak]

If you want to know why the C300 worths it's price, read all of this: http://carousel.hu/c300/
The C300 is perfect for easy post-production, with a very-very decent codec.

The camera you wrote - the Sony FS700 - records with a bitrate of 28Mbps.....

I think that is part of what people are missing is that these cameras are a small part of the production process. Most places aren't even buying them, they rent. If the C300 workflow is much simpler than the RED Scarlett, then it doesn't matter which costs less, you'll save thousands in labor costs since you're editing will go faster. If it handles low-light better, you'll save money that would have been spent on gaffers and grips and lights. Especially in comparison to RED, where you have to double your costs with all their proprietary crap.

I can probably count on my hands the number of shots at taken at more than 60fps that I've seen on TV in the last 6 months. Aside from the Discovery channel show where they slo-mo things exploding. You dont need 4k @ 240fps when your finished product is broadcast at 720 and your show is people talking in an apartment.

Close to ALEXA? good luck with that.... ALEXA is in a class by its own... not even EPIC goes there... you have to work with it and the do the Post Production process to know what i'm talking about here... Alexa is worth every penny. It is like a really amazing Film Cinema Camera simulator... just amazing... the dynamic range, organic film grain and image quality in general vs. the weight of the files is just... jaw dropping.

Yeah, I kind of figure they won't get all the way there, but, I think that is the way they would go. They don't seem to care to play the jaw-dropping spec game; they take the more practical approach. I doubt they'll get to the dynamic range that Alexa has (which is just nuts), but, if they can improve the workflow compared to competitors, its a way to corner the market

 

[Bob Howland]

I think maybe CR should stick to consumer-to-semi-pro-level rumors, because it seems like people don't get that this would be a whole different level of camera. Post after post comparing this rumor to the FS700 - haha

In other news, Nissan Europe may develop a new Formula One car, priced at $800K... and the verdict from the CR crowd is that it is way overpriced compared to the upcoming Scion FR-S, and Nissan should just improve the Altima first. ???

Maybe you should read this: http://www.eoshd.com/content/7767/canon-c300-versus-arri-alexa-on-game-of-thrones Here's a quote from that posting: "The big story here is just how mind-blowingly good mass produced low cost technology is getting."

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

35K eh.... good luck Canon. The price point on the C300 was ridiculos compared to functionality, can't help wonder why it should be any better on any new camera.

Look at Sony (FS700 for 8K)... and let's see what Panasonic throws out there in 4-5 days.

Well, if Canon is putting out a camera for $30-35k, then it better compete with and come damn close to Arri's Alexa (2k, dynamic range of film, etc). It certainly has to beat the Red Epic by a good amount.

That said, its still a small niche camera. But, I imagine some of the tech would trickle down to an EOS 4k camera, so, it's at least worth watching for that reason.

Close to ALEXA? good luck with that.... ALEXA is in a class by its own... not even EPIC goes there... you have to work with it and the do the Post Production process to know what i'm talking about here... Alexa is worth every penny. It is like a really amazing Film Cinema Camera simulator... just amazing... the dynamic range, organic film grain and image quality in general vs. the weight of the files is just... jaw dropping.
With EPIC what you might be saving on camera equipment you must invest in post production infrastructure because of the stupidly heavy data it outputs... and without proxys (as in red one) is almost impossible to manage.

But there are also people who say that the c300 produces more accurate colors right out of the camera. This can be a huge deal for keeping costs down.

I think people are so riled up because the 5d mk iii was so blatantly nerfed, and it's gonna take them a while to get over it. All the hardware is there, all they need to do is re-work the firmware.

 

[Minnesota Nice]

I'll sell my kidney and other non vital body parts to get a 4K camera that can film at least at 120fps.

 

[bp]

Maybe you should read this: http://www.eoshd.com/content/7767/canon-c300-versus-arri-alexa-on-game-of-thrones Here's a quote from that posting: "The big story here is just how mind-blowingly good mass produced low cost technology is getting."

No argument there - you can now get 98% of the way there for under $10k, and maybe in the example above, 99% for $15k... which is indeed mind blowing. But there will always be the big boys, who are willing to pay 10x the price for that last percent. I was simply pointing out that if this camera rumor is true, it's most likely aimed at those big boys, not at those of us who are happily riding the wave of mass produced low cost technology.

 

[Musouka]

Sony has a LOT more money than Canon and it looks like they are aiming to take Canon out, which they can easily do since they actually LISTEN to their customers and are releasing state of the art tech, unlike Canon.

Canon spends around $4bn (using the exchange rate of 80 Yen per USD) in R&D annually (link) which translates into 8-9% of their net sales. Sony spend around $5.65bn which is around 6% if I'm not mistaken (PDF link page 38). Sony is involved in more industries than Canon so it's spread across more fileds. I was surprised that Canon has more employees (197K) than Sony (168K).

Sony net sales for Fiscal 2010 (7,181,300 million yen) were almost double that of Canon (3,706,901 million yen). However, they posted a loss of 259,585 million yen (after taxes) compared to a net profit of 246,603 million yen for Canon (after taxes). If you look at pages 54-5, you will see that the CPD arm is the least profitable (despite it accounting for over 50% of the total revenue)

Sony is facing difficult times ahead financially with a revised forecast of $6.4bn in net losses.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/11revision_sony.pdf

They would be able to cover those with their $8bn in cash reserves (as of March 31, 2011) and are expecting to return to profitability by April 2013 (estimated $2.2bn in profits).

While I'm not sure how that would affect their camera divisions, rumor has it that they are laying off 10,000 people (that's being denied, however) or 6% of their workforce. Half of these is expected to come from a Chemical business they are selling, however.

The strong Yen is hurting both and it's only showing signs of weakening recently:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/market_moves.html

 

[gene_can_sing]

I think the point most people are making is that Canon NEEDS to take care of their core video customers, which they have NOT been doing. I can afford up to an $8K camera, but I want Canon to release something worth buying, which is NOT the underspec'd / overpriced C-300.

Canon needs to get back to their core customers because they are losing them fast to Sony because of the current F-100.

A $35K camera is going to do most of their customers no good and will just leave us hanging AGAIN.

Stop this non-sense Canon and just release a decent mid range price video offering.

 

[Shnookums]

A super video camera? I don't care... But it will probably be out before the 1Dx...

 

[psolberg]

makes sense. nobody needs 4K in the consumer space. The 5DmkIII isn't even able to resolve true 1080p much less will canon do an affordable 4K body. 4K is all for high end productions that are eating up REDs like there is no tomorrow.

 

[Chad]

Well, it's not the news i hoped to see when i came to Canon Rumors today. It's nice they're making a camera for that niche though.

I'm still looking for a large sensor video camera around $7-8k, and i hope to buy by the end of the year. So far, the Sony FS-700 looks like exactly what i'd want, specs wise, but i was hoping Canon would step in there with a similar offering.

Everyone is saying "4k, 4k!" but i'm not even worried about that right now. I'd be all over that C-300, maybe a C-100 if it was priced around $8k, but i guess i'm hoping for too much!

 

[HurtinMinorKey]

How come this wasn't given a rumor rating? That guy who tweeted this information is a total clown. That being said, the c300 stats would make more sense if they were planning on something 4k high end. The c300 becomes the tv production camera, the c*** ends up as the camera for films.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I think maybe CR should stick to consumer-to-semi-pro-level rumors, because it seems like people don't get that this would be a whole different level of camera. Post after post comparing this rumor to the FS700 - haha

In other news, Nissan Europe may develop a new Formula One car, priced at $800K... and the verdict from the CR crowd is that it is way overpriced compared to the upcoming Scion FR-S, and Nissan should just improve the Altima first. ???

yeah but they don't leave features out of the passenger car to protect their F1 sales ;D

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I think maybe CR should stick to consumer-to-semi-pro-level rumors, because it seems like people don't get that this would be a whole different level of camera. Post after post comparing this rumor to the FS700 - haha

In other news, Nissan Europe may develop a new Formula One car, priced at $800K... and the verdict from the CR crowd is that it is way overpriced compared to the upcoming Scion FR-S, and Nissan should just improve the Altima first. ???

Maybe you should read this: http://www.eoshd.com/content/7767/canon-c300-versus-arri-alexa-on-game-of-thrones Here's a quote from that posting: "The big story here is just how mind-blowingly good mass produced low cost technology is getting."

and then later down he keeps going on about how digital the C300 looks and how even a few DSLR looked more organic at times and kept praising the Alexa like mad in 90% of his responses in the comments

 

[Bob Howland]

I think maybe CR should stick to consumer-to-semi-pro-level rumors, because it seems like people don't get that this would be a whole different level of camera. Post after post comparing this rumor to the FS700 - haha

In other news, Nissan Europe may develop a new Formula One car, priced at $800K... and the verdict from the CR crowd is that it is way overpriced compared to the upcoming Scion FR-S, and Nissan should just improve the Altima first. ???

Maybe you should read this: http://www.eoshd.com/content/7767/canon-c300-versus-arri-alexa-on-game-of-thrones Here's a quote from that posting: "The big story here is just how mind-blowingly good mass produced low cost technology is getting."

and then later down he keeps going on about how digital the C300 looks and how even a few DSLR looked more organic at times and kept praising the Alexa like mad in 90% of his responses in the comments

I'm assuming by "comments", you mean Hurlbut's blog, not the EOSHD comments.

 

[Ed_5D]

I'll sell my kidney and other non vital body parts to get a 4K camera that can film at least at 120fps.

Hahaha!! I'm there with you! I'll even throw one ear!! as far as we are talking about a camera under $15k