New Firmware for EOS 5D Mark IV Coming Soon [CR2]

[tr573]

Quote from: Frederik_Bo on Today at 02:11:44 PM
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Quote from: Frederik_Bo on Today at 01:36:02 PM
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new 4K codecs,etc .. most of that has to be done in hardware and not software.

How so? Codecs are a softwere property. I am sure the processor can handle it.

the reason they do mjpeg is the low cpu cost. they can't dissipate heat fast enough to do h.264 in camera, so they stuck with mjpeg.

I find that har to believe. Especially as it is not reading the hole sensor in 4k mode.
Further more they have been doing h264 in camera for HD for years. It would seem odd if they can't do it with 4k By now.

being able to efficiently (in a power and heat sense) process 1080P is in no way an indication of being able to do so for four times that amount of data. You can believe what you like, but Canon only touts stills extraction and the ridiculous video bitrate as a "feature" because they have to make the best of the situation they are stuck in with mjpeg. If they could do 4K with a better codec in camera, they would be doing it already, at least with the 1DC or the 1DX2, and they aren't.

Well the 5d mark II did it with Full HD in 2009. The mark IV came out in 2016. That gives it 7 years on the Mark II which amounts to 84 months. Moores law says that processing power dubles every 18 months. This would make the current 5d mark IV be 4,6 doublings a head of the mark II. This gives us an exponential funktion looking like this: 2x1^4,6=24,25. Meaning that if the processors in the canon cameras, have been keeping up with Moores law, then the processor in the 5d mark IV should be roughly 24,25 times as fast as the the mark II. I think the processing of 4 times the amount of data should be possible. No way is processing power the bottleneck.

I did not say the cpu can't do it at all, I said it can't do it in that form factor without drawing more power and thus generating more heat than the whole unit can handle reliably.

If temperature scaled exponentially over time, like processing power, cameras would be catching fire by now. So I really dont buy, it having anything to do with the CPU. If there is a bottle neck, I would guess it to be either the sensor, buffer or the write speed to the cards. But really. Other manufactures are able to do it, so canon should be able to it also.

The sensor readout would be the same, you're just doing something different with the data afterwards. (That's an argument about the crop there, not the codec you compress with after) Write speed to the card and buffer definitely not the problem, because the MJPEG data is like 4x the bitrate you would need to get equivalent quality from 264.

 

[rrcphoto]

new 4K codecs,etc .. most of that has to be done in hardware and not software.

How so? Codecs are a softwere property. I am sure the processor can handle it.

they aren't software. they are special ASIC's called DSP's.

 

[rrcphoto]

Quote from: Frederik_Bo on Today at 01:36:02 PM
Quote
new 4K codecs,etc .. most of that has to be done in hardware and not software.

How so? Codecs are a softwere property. I am sure the processor can handle it.

the reason they do mjpeg is the low cpu cost. they can't dissipate heat fast enough to do h.264 in camera, so they stuck with mjpeg.

I find that har to believe. Especially as it is not reading the hole sensor in 4k mode.
Further more they have been doing h264 in camera for HD for years. It would seem odd if they can't do it with 4k By now.

4k is four times the data bandwith, and the DSP's have to support it.

DIGIC DV has the 4K h.264 DSP's but it requires active cooling with a fan to run. See XC10 and C300,etc.

 

[rrcphoto]

Quote from: Frederik_Bo on Today at 02:11:44 PM
Quote
Quote from: Frederik_Bo on Today at 01:36:02 PM
Quote
new 4K codecs,etc .. most of that has to be done in hardware and not software.

How so? Codecs are a softwere property. I am sure the processor can handle it.

the reason they do mjpeg is the low cpu cost. they can't dissipate heat fast enough to do h.264 in camera, so they stuck with mjpeg.

I find that har to believe. Especially as it is not reading the hole sensor in 4k mode.
Further more they have been doing h264 in camera for HD for years. It would seem odd if they can't do it with 4k By now.

being able to efficiently (in a power and heat sense) process 1080P is in no way an indication of being able to do so for four times that amount of data. You can believe what you like, but Canon only touts stills extraction and the ridiculous video bitrate as a "feature" because they have to make the best of the situation they are stuck in with mjpeg. If they could do 4K with a better codec in camera, they would be doing it already, at least with the 1DC or the 1DX2, and they aren't.

Well the 5d mark II did it with Full HD in 2009. The mark IV came out in 2016. That gives it 7 years on the Mark II which amounts to 84 months. Moores law says that processing power dubles every 18 months. This would make the current 5d mark IV be 4,6 doublings a head of the mark II. This gives us an exponential funktion looking like this: 2x1^4,6=24,25. Meaning that if the processors in the canon cameras, have been keeping up with Moores law, then the processor in the 5d mark IV should be roughly 24,25 times as fast as the the mark II. I think the processing of 4 times the amount of data should be possible. No way is processing power the bottleneck.

moore's law has been dead for years.

not to mention, again, these aren't done in DIGIC, they are using DSP's to output the video stream. in the camera DIGIC's those are limited to 1080p.

the 4K is grabbed because instead of going through the DSP, they are reading the sensor 30/60,etc times a second and saving a JPG from the "window". that can be done without going through the DSP's.

it's also why the 4K implementation doesn't output HDMI, and why no h.264, etc .. because the DSP hardware wasn't available when the 5D Mark IV (or 1DX Mark II) were being R&D'ed.

they could have put a DIGIC DV in there (and limit camera functions - see XC10), which would handle the 4k DSP, but then that would have required active cooling because both the XC10, C300,C500,etc require heatsinks and fans to cool off the DIGIC processor for processing 4K.

So yeah. just software. that easy.
:

here's the XC15 and C300 .. notice anything that couldn't be done on a semi sealed DSLR?

people have the tin foil hats on too tightly, when canon can't even pull off 4K without heat venting on video cameras.

 

[Deleted member 68328]

Given Canon's current video-centered line-up, the 5D Mark IV is a camera aimed first at stills. So, yes automatic AFMA would be a better choice than any 4K-related feature. There's so much to improve over Nikon's first implementation. We can even imagine storing values depending not only on a specific lens, but a la Sigma, depending on several focal lengths (for zooms), several focus distances and why not even depending on selected AF point (and not just center AF).

With the growing number of fast primes, it makes sense to ensure that AF is accurate. Getting those eyes sharp can be really challenging at f/1.4.

This would be a welcome addition if the 85mm f/1.4 comes true

Now the question is: will it work with third-party lenses?

 

[rrcphoto]

Given Canon's current video-centered line-up, the 5D Mark IV is a camera aimed first at stills. So, yes automatic AFMA would be a better choice than any 4K-related feature. There's so much to improve over Nikon's first implementation. We can even imagine storing values depending not only on a specific lens, but a la Sigma, depending on several focal lengths (for zooms), several focus distances and why not even depending on selected AF point (and not just center AF).

With the growing number of fast primes, it makes sense to ensure that AF is accurate. Getting those eyes sharp can be really challenging at f/1.4.

This would be a welcome addition if the 85mm f/1.4 comes true

Now the question is: will it work with third-party lenses?

they could store it as

lens serial <> light temperature <> focal <> aperture <> focus distance = offset.

or simply do the calculation each time you AF.

probably wouldn't work with third party lenses because those lenses don't have a name / serial with them and may not report back focus distance / focal correctly. alot of them dont'.

 

[transpo1]

Full frame 4K at 100-200 Mbps...

... I wish

+1. Or at least 1.3x crop

 

[unfocused]

Anyone who believes a camera that has been out for six months is going to see a major firmware update of any sort is smoking something funny.

Add to that the fact that at this point the 5DIV is outselling any other full frame camera on the market. There is no competitive or technical reason for Canon to offer a major firmware update. Any firmware changes are simply going to be bug fixes and things like correcting a misspelling on the Uyghur menus.

 

[pixel8foto]

Currently you cannot use RAW image processing or crop whilst wifi is enabled.

The options are greyed out until you disable wifi. Then, once you've processed your image, you have to re-enable wifi, select your connection anew, wait for it to be established - and then send. Then turn it off again when you next need to convert from RAW etc. It's a really frustrating obstruction to what should be a smooth, file-from-camera workflow.

This was the featureset that drove me to upgrade from the 5D3 - and it'd be excellent but for being inexplicably undermined in this way.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

Enabling dual ISO for stills instead of just video would be nice.
One or two more fps would make my day.
The 6DII will probably give the 5D IV a run for it's money without
some major firmware upgrades.
They would be some really pissed off people if the 6D II performed as well or better then the 5D IV!

 

[tr573]

Enabling dual ISO for stills instead of just video would be nice.

??

 

[goldenhusky]

Here is my wish list

Better video compression for 4k (I can compensate crop with wider lenses)
120 fps @ 1080p
Spot Metering linked to AF Point
More fps still shooting

 

[jolyonralph]

I bet the new feature is something terribly unexciting, like a new version of PictBridge.

 

[StudentOfLight]

Unlocking the potential of the DH4-2665

 

[Deleted member 7828]

AA Filter Cancellation Mode (aka 5DSR mode) ... MAKE IT SO!

I wish...but I know in the case of the 5DSR the cancellation is hardware-based (a physical cancellation mechanism in front of the original filter)...unless there were a way to do it electronically, but that's not ideal. I think DLO kind of does this already, but a) it takes forever, b) it adds artifacts and noise.

More likely I think would either be a new codec for 4K video (a lot of complaints there) or mirror lockup delay from the 5DS cameras. Or maybe it's a undisclosed feature debuting, say in the new 6D that will "trickle up" to the 5D4.

 

[Jopa]

The 1dx2 needs a few features from the 5dm4 as well... like DPRAW and better touchscreen support. Continuous AF in the LV (M5) would be very welcome too.
And of course a few traditional Chinese words are completely misspelled!!!

 

[[email protected]]

Of everything mentioned, there are only two items that really excite me:
1) More FPS, which is the camera's great weakness (and quite likely due to nerfing)
2) Dual ISO for stills

If either of those features comes in a firmware upgrade, I'll sell my 7D2 2nd camera and replace it with another 5d4. And that's coming from a bird/wildlife/action guy.

 

[rrcphoto]

Of everything mentioned, there are only two items that really excite me:
1) More FPS, which is the camera's great weakness (and quite likely due to nerfing)
2) Dual ISO for stills

If either of those features comes in a firmware upgrade, I'll sell my 7D2 2nd camera and replace it with another 5d4. And that's coming from a bird/wildlife/action guy.

7fps is a great weakness? Yeah. Okay. :

 

[transpo1]

Anyone who believes a camera that has been out for six months is going to see a major firmware update of any sort is smoking something funny.

Add to that the fact that at this point the 5DIV is outselling any other full frame camera on the market. There is no competitive or technical reason for Canon to offer a major firmware update. Any firmware changes are simply going to be bug fixes and things like correcting a misspelling on the Uyghur menus.

Well, you're probably right, because Canon is a very conservative company and why would they give their loyal customers any updates of value when they've already purchased the camera? Of course, one could make the case that they should do this precisely to reward customers who've purchased and incentivize people to continue buying...not to mention to avenge the lackluster response the 5DIV garnered for its video features. But hey, this is a bit of a dream coming from Canon, isn't it?

 

[hubie]

I fear the update of the firmware will only bring minor improvements with it. To be honest, right now I can't think of an update that brought major changes as discussed here.

Perhaps we get more MP too? /sarcasm

We will see I guess