New rumor of Supertelephoto DO’s and the R1 [CR2]

AlanF

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The Nikon PF 500mm f5.6 lens is a pretty epic wildlife/bird lens, for anyone that doesn't want one of the big fast telephoto primes, either because of weight or cost. It's basically as sharp as the big lenses, but lighter than a 100-400 zoom. I have absolutely no idea why Canon didn't learn from this and produce an equivalent, but one that they could actually supply to anyone who wanted one. It would be a hugely popular lens with nature photographers. Yes, to some extent the 100-500mm zoom has filled this niche. But it is not a prime, and it is 2/3 stop slower, even if the weight and cost are similar. A 500mm f5 would be nice, but expect it to be bigger, and more expensive.
I sold my Nikon PF 500 f/5.6 because the RF 100-500mm is frankly indistinguishably sharp at 500mm, has all the advantages of a zoom, can focus much closer up, all for the cost of 2/3rds of a stop at the same weight and cheaper. A 500 f/5 is a stop faster than a 500 f/7.1, and would that be enough to make it worthwhile?
 
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I had an FD 500/4.5L on loan once for a month. It was about as long as the current EF 500/4 L ii but a fair amount lighter, if memory serves. Of course, I was about 40 years younger then and a lot stronger then but it made a wonderful birding lens. It was a true sweetheart of lens.

A DO version about 12-13 inches long and 5 pounds or less would sure make my heart go a racing and my credit card scream in terror.
 
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D

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I sold my Nikon PF 500 f/5.6 because the RF 100-500mm is frankly indistinguishably sharp at 500mm, has all the advantages of a zoom, can focus much closer up, all for the cost of 2/3rds of a stop at the same weight and cheaper.
The 100-500 is a wonderful lens that I use daily, as well. Love the versatility. But I’m often wanting more light when shooting moving critters at dusk. f/7.1 —> f/5 would be a very nice addition to the lineup if it has 500PF image quality.
 
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Comparing the relevant Nikon lineup: 500 5.6 PF, 800 6.3, 400 2.8 TC
There is actually not a single Canon super tele lens being on par when it comes to innovation and added value.
The 500 4.5 DO might come close. But where is or are long prime lenses with built in switchable TCs?
Why the hell should I give away my EF 600 MII or my 200-400 4.0 Extender 1.4? Both are exceptional @ EF mount, even better adapted to RF.

The only one giving added value is Nikon. What does this mean?
 
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I had an FD 500/4.5L on loan once for a month. It was about as long as the current EF 500/4 L ii but a fair amount lighter, if memory serves. Of course, I was about 40 years younger then and a lot stronger then but it made a wonderful birding lens. It was a true sweetheart of lens.

A DO version about 12-13 inches long and 5 pounds or less would sure make my heart go a racing and my credit card scream in terror.
Oh, this FD400 4.5 made me become a bird photographer, an exceptional nice lens. There was never a more mobile long lens in my life to carry around for accidental shooting. The Nikon 500 PF is in the same league with close to half a century enhanced technology built in, but nothing from Canon.
I do use the 100-500 for this purpose today but it has less open aperture and is by far less durable.
 
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I really miss the old "400 mm f5.6 L" days where we could have a GREAT tele Canon lens around $1200. Never was replaced!
The very best lens in this league was the FD 400mm 4.5, light, durable, clicking all boxes in this pre AF times.
There was never a AF prime on par with this. The 400 5.6 came close, but it lacked the IS from the 300 4.0 .

Today we spend by far more money to get less fun.
 
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tron

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I sold my Nikon PF 500 f/5.6 because the RF 100-500mm is frankly indistinguishably sharp at 500mm, has all the advantages of a zoom, can focus much closer up, all for the cost of 2/3rds of a stop at the same weight and cheaper. A 500 f/5 is a stop faster than a 500 f/7.1, and would that be enough to make it worthwhile?
And ... only 1/3rd of a stop faster than 500mm f/5.6 PF :ROFLMAO:
 
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AlanF

Desperately seeking birds
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The 100-500 is a wonderful lens that I use daily, as well. Love the versatility. But I’m often wanting more light when shooting moving critters at dusk. f/7.1 —> f/5 would be a very nice addition to the lineup if it has 500PF image quality.
You edited out the final sentence of my post:
"A 500 f/5 is a stop faster than a 500 f/7.1, and would that be enough to make it worthwhile?" That was the key question leading to: Would you go out for a days shooting with a 500/5 or a 100-500/7.1? Just a one stop advantage wouldn't be enough for me, an ultralight 500/4 would, a 500/4.5 maybe.
 
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You edited out the final sentence of my post:
"A 500 f/5 is a stop faster than a 500 f/7.1, and would that be enough to make it worthwhile?" That was the key question leading to: Would you go out for a days shooting with a 500/5 or a 100-500/7.1? Just a one stop advantage wouldn't be enough for me, an ultralight 500/4 would, a 500/4.5 maybe.
I did no such thing. It looks like you edited your post to add that final sentence after the fact. Perhaps I responded before the edit.

I think there’s without a doubt a place in the market for both lenses. Personally, I’d shoot with my 100-500 the bulk of the time for versatility with the prime coming out for low light situations in which I know what I’m shooting (usually wildlife). I shoot handheld 95% of the time so the larger primes on a tripod is not my cup of tea. This mid-range PF/DO set of lenses is my sweet spot when wanting prime-like quality and speed in a smaller package.
 
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AlanF

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I did no such thing. It looks like you edited your post to add that final sentence after the fact. Perhaps I responded before the edit.

I think there’s without a doubt a place in the market for both lenses. Personally, I’d shoot with my 100-500 the bulk of the time for versatility with the prime coming out for low light situations in which I know what I’m shooting (usually wildlife). I shoot handheld 95% of the time so the larger primes on a tripod is not my cup of tea. This mid-range PF/DO set of lenses is my sweet spot when wanting prime-like quality and speed in a smaller package.
My post was edited at 8.11, your reply posted at 8.13 after the edit. OK, I realise you missed it because your page was not refreshed and it wasn't deliberate on your part. I shoot similarly to you, but if I wanted low light shooting I'd want more than a stop advantage. That was my deciding factor for why I also sold my 400mm f/4 DO II, which has the same light gathering ability as a 500/5 (both have 100mm diameter front elements). Also, a 500/4 would give a slightly better image because of of less diffraction blurring.
 
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My post was edited at 8.11, your reply posted at 8.13 after the edit. OK, I realise you missed it because your page was not refreshed and it wasn't deliberate on your part. I shoot similarly to you, but if I wanted low light shooting I'd want more than a stop advantage. That was my deciding factor for why I also sold my 400mm f/4 DO II, which has the same light gathering ability as a 500/4 (both have 100mm diameter front elements). Also, a 500/4 would give a slightly better image because of of less diffraction blurring.
I’m with you on getting as much light as possible. A lot of people pay a lot of money for one additional stop of light, so it’s not that insignificant at this range. It sounds like you are comfortable with your 500 f/4 and using a tripod more often, and that makes sense—a lot of wildlife folks share your sentiment. I’m running and gunning in the backcountry more than roadside, so those handheld mid-tiers are perfect for me. To each their own; options are great!
 
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AlanF

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That 1/3rd of a stop would be icing. Personally I’d be happy if Canon just had an equivalent 500 f/5.6 in the same league and size. I have to go to Nikon for that presently.
In the Nikon Forums, there are reports from several selling their 500/5.6 and buying the new Nikon 100-400. So, it's horses for courses and we all have our individual preferences.
I’m with you on getting as much light as possible. A lot of people pay a lot of money for one additional stop of light, so it’s not that insignificant. It sounds like you are comfortable with your 500 f/4 and using a tripod more often, which a lot of wildlife folks share your sentiment. I’m running and gunning in the backcountry more than roadside, so those handheld mid-rangers are perfect for me. To each their own; options are great!
I never use a tripod, the 500/4 would have to be under 2kg to make it acceptable to me, that's why I say ultralight 500/4. If you go to Nikon and you are worried about weight, then the Z9 might not be for you since it's over 1.3kg (weighs about the same as an R5 +RF100-400mm attached), the Z7 II doesn't have very good AF with tracking, so you would probably be best with a D500 DSLR for wildlife - it does make an excellent combination with the 500PF. I had thought of keeping the 500PF, in case Nikon came out with a suitable mirrorless, but the weight of Z9 put me off. Fully agree with you on to each their own.
 
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In the Nikon Forums, there are reports from several selling their 500/5.6 and buying the new Nikon 100-400. So, it's horses for courses and we all have our individual preferences.

I never use a tripod, the 500/4 would have to be under 2kg to make it acceptable to me, that's why I say ultralight 500/4. If you go to Nikon and you are worried about weight, then the Z9 might not be for you since it's over 1.3kg (weighs about the same as an R5 +RF100-400mm attached), the Z7 II doesn't have very good AF with tracking, so you would probably be best with a D500 DSLR for wildlife - it does make an excellent combination with the 500PF. I had thought of keeping the 500PF, in case Nikon came out with a suitable mirrorless, but the weight of Z9 put me off. Fully agree with you on to each their own.
Honestly the weight is not so much my issue, personally, it’s the size of the larger telephotos. They’re awkward to carry around when you’re doing much other than roadside or front country. I’d much prefer giving up a little light (but not too much) for a smaller prime package that I can lug around on a hike or overnighter.

That’s not to say I don’t appreciate the 100-500; quite the contrary, it’s my go-to lens 75% of the time. And if I was shooting roadside at dusk I would not mind the longer primes one bit for extra light, even on a tripod. We need the full range.

Personally, I’d much prefer to shoot with Canon as my primary system so I’m hoping they fill out the wildlife lineup and compete with Nikon here on the PFs, but I would not hesitate for a second to purchase a Z9 with their PF lineup. I agree with you, I’ve used their D500/D850 combo with that 500PF for handheld wildlife and it’s a fantastic setup.
 
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My post was edited at 8.11, your reply posted at 8.13 after the edit. OK, I realise you missed it because your page was not refreshed and it wasn't deliberate on your part. I shoot similarly to you, but if I wanted low light shooting I'd want more than a stop advantage. That was my deciding factor for why I also sold my 400mm f/4 DO II, which has the same light gathering ability as a 500/4 (both have 100mm diameter front elements). Also, a 500/4 would give a slightly better image because of of less diffraction blurring.
Why would a 500/4 have a 100mm entrance pupil?
 
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I think the Canon R1 will not be a sports camera. The R3 serves that purpose.
Therefore, an R1 annoncement & launch doesn't need to coincide with Olympics or other major sports events.
I suspect Canon is going back to offering two different pro cameras... A fast one with modest resolution for sports action alongside a slower one with ultra high resolution for studio, weddings, fashion, landscape, etc. pro shooters. It will be like the old days, before 1DX, when they sold 1D-series for pro sports/action and 1Ds-series for other pro specialties.
They won't repeat the mistake they made back then, offering a much cheaper camera with the same high resolution as the 1Ds-series. Even pros switched to 5D-series, gutting the sales of 1Ds models. Future variants of the R5 might increase to 60MP range, but likely won't ever compete directly with the R1, the way 5D models did against 1Ds models.
A lot of the other R1 specs listed also sound silly...... But you never know. Canon likes to surprise us!
 
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My guess for R1 specs from 2 years ago... Some items have come to life in the R3, others already in the Z9. Would you pay USD8k for it?

Minimum specs as R5 but in 1D body ( AF-On smart controller buttons, dual CFe slots) with:
- Global shutter (no mechanical shutter). Rolling shutter artifacts significantly better than current electronic shutter
- Flash sync at any shutter speed
- 45mp sensor with IBIS (IBIS can be turned off)
- QPAF in very low light
- 30fps electronic shutter burst with full tracking - perhaps with buffer ie not unlimited
- ~20mp on-the fly over sampled (no lossy compression/cRAW/S-RAW) at full 30fps unlimited buffer. Best of both worlds.
- Dual Digic X to spread the heat generation and generate less heat per CPU
- Unlimited 8k cinema raw lite internal recording to CFe card capacity
- 6K/60. 4k/120 unlimited no crop internal recording.
- No line skipping/pixel binning 4k/6k modes ie oversampled from full sensor width
- 29:59 recording limit
- Clog2/3
- Minimum 16fps using anti-flicker depending on frequency of the flicker lighting
- Pixel shift high res stills
- 9+ megadot EFV with no blackout and fast refresh rates (at least 120fps). >0.5" in size
- Full sized HDMI 2.1 port (48G) or thunderbolt 3 USB-C or both
- Mini XLR audio option
- Ethernet port
- Flippy screen included. This one I am not sure on but still needed I think. Weather sealing will need to be excellent though
 
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unfocused

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After having used the R3 for a few months, I can see a few things I expect will be in the R1.

Dual CFExpress (no brainer)
No mechanical shutter
Eye Control Autofocus 2.0 (lots of room to improve here)
45-50 mp.
Next Generation CRaw (As it stands, the differences between CRaw and Raw are pretty much indistinguishable, so I expect the next generation to offer smaller files sizes with no loss of quality.)
Larger buffer and faster throughput.
Quad pixel or similar autofocus that works more like a DSLR.
New battery, backwards compatible with current battery.
Typical autofocus improvements (two improvements they really need: 1) better recognition of non-white subjects; 2) select front facing subject, even if back facing subject is closer -- R3 tends to pick the nearest subject to focus on, even if it is the back of someone's head, rather than a face)
Related to the above -- selecting the eye rather than head on more distant subjects.

I expect the improvements to be incremental over the R3 and 1Dx III, nothing revolutionary as this is the 1 series after all.
 
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