Nikon Releases Z 800mm at 1/3 Cost of Canon’s
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Judging from the photo posted with the annoucement, the rig looks terribly heavy. It takes a Valkyrie to hoist it!
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Given that the only person that responded to my question about who was paid to take telephoto shots of animals wasn't you, and that they're very keen on using this new Nikon lens, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that your assertion is simply wrong.
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If the pay aint that great why then spend extra for top-end gear?
If this was 2008 and I had to make a choice between a $12k EF800m 4.5kg lens vs $4k Z 800mm 2.35kg lens I'd go with the Z. The $4k price is 1/3rd the price of a EF800mm back in 2008 in the same manner the $6.5k price of the Z is 1/3rd the price of the 2022 RF800mm 5.6 lens.
I don't get paid for my photography and "environmentalists" steal my photos for their fund raising. I'm not inclined to carry a lens 2x the weight for a hobby and be robbed
Now, if I was paid well at a predictable intervals then the EF800mm would be more attractive.
On BH & Adorama the #1 selling lens is the Z 800mm largely because of the price point and weight.
There is a large market for long slow lens that are f/6.3, f/7.1 & f/11. Bravo on Canon and Nikon in recognizing and trying to eat into Sigma and Tamron's market.
On Canon's part it is smart of them to reuse a lens design for 3 unique lens SKUs. This would allow them to have some flexibility of lowering the price from $17k to something closer to $6.5k.
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This is your justification, not Canon’s or Nikon’s, and it’s ridiculous.
Canon chose to put minimal design effort into the 800/5.6. They took the recent 400/2.8 designed for DSLRs that have an f/5.6 aperture constraint for AF, and built a 2x TC into it, making it an 800/5.6. Nikon designed a new lens for MILCs.
Try this for market positions: Canon’s 800/5.6 is aimed at photographers who generate revenue, Nikon’s 800/6.3 is aimed at photographers who generate revenue and want more of that revenue to be profit.
In your mind, is it also the case that Nikon’s pro-level flagship MILC Z9 is not intended for revenue-generating photography, but Canon’s pro-level non-flagship MILC R3 is, because it costs 30% more than the Z9.
This is really simple. The market position for these lenses and bodies are people and companies who take pictures and can afford them. Especially today, when the professional photography market is rapidly eroding.
Canon has around three times the ILC market share of Nikon. They likely believe they can charge high prices and their market dominance will ensure sales at those prices. Nikon used to have nearly the same market share as Canon, they lost over half of it in recent years. They likely believe an aggressive pricing strategy will help win some back.
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I said "most" and not "all".
I only mention the Z9 as the matching body to highlight the price gap between just a Canon lens vs a Nikon lens + pro body.
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You said, "Market position," as in a definition of the group for which the product is designed by the manufacturer. To suggest that Canon designed the 800/5.6 as a lens that, "Generally generates revenue for working photographers," while Nikon designed the 800/6.3 as a lens that, "Generally does not generate any revenue for working photographers," is asinine. Please just acknowledge your mistake and move on.
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Market position as of the announcement of the Z 800mm. I am writing this as of today's market condition.
The word "generally" is an adverb that means "in most cases; usually" or "in general terms; without regard to particulars or exceptions." By using that word I acknowledge that these are not absolute use cases. I say this as I often use my EF 800/5.6 to do portraits of people. Why? Because I can and it gives a unique aesthetic. I am told I can use an extension tube on it to act like a amateurish macro lens
How would Canon market the RF 800/5.6 that is 1.42x the physical weight, 2.62x the MSRP but 1/3rd of a stop faster as compared to the Z 800mm? Sales forecast of that lens would now be changed largely because of the recent introduction of the Z 800/6.3
On BH Photo & Adorama you can see how it has impacted the market for 800m lenses. The Z 800/6.3 is the most popular mirrorless lens largely because of the price & weight.
Why else would this Nikon lens be that talked about on non-Nikon forums?
Many here may scoff at the Z 800/6.3 because its 1/3rd slower or it being a Nikon but I've spoken to many lens owners that have 3kg or heavier lenses and I have yet to hear anyone preferring something heavier unless it's that cheap.
Everyone replying to me should not take offense about which brand produces a better product. Been on Canon for nearly 3 decades and spoke to Sony, Pentax and Nikon users. It's just basically a see saw. One brand's product/service will be superior for a few months/years then it goes to a different company.
I recall a conversation with a Nikon photographer back in 2004 where in they were admiring the ISO performance of the EOS 10D. He was telling me that working Nikon photogs who make a living with their cameras were often forced to sell their system as it did not have the light sensitivity of Canon.
Back in 2015 Canon users were talking about how much better Sony's full frame image sensors were vs those of Canon. It has better ISO sensitivty.
Now... Nikon has the Z 800/6.3... a 800mm lens prefered by a lot of wildlife/bird photographers based on the BHPhoto & Adorama rankings. Back in 2008-2012 the EF 800/5.6 was the preferred wildlife/bird lens.
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D
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I can't imagine the EF 800 f/5.6 ever being a preferred wildlife lens as for as long as I can remember the occasions I looked at it I was always recommended a 600 f/4.0 and a 1.4X TC as this combo always performed better. The Nikon 800 f/6.3 PF is the only time I have seen a buzz for a professional 800mm lens and heard people talk of owning one instead of a 600 f/4.0 + 1.4x TC.
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Sorry, I missed where Nikon announced that the 800/6.3 was intended 'generally' to not generate any revenue for photographers using it. What they actually said was, "High operability and superior rendering performance support reliable use of this lens by many users ranging from advanced amateurs to professional photographers." Maybe you think professional photographers don't actually generate revenue? Lol.
They will market it to Canon users. Same as every other Canon lens. Given that Canon users comprise about half of the ILC market, that's quite a reasonable strategy. Probably your personal forecast for sales of the Canon 800/5.6 have changed. But given that Canon knew about the Nikon 800/6.3 well in advance of launching their 800/5.6 and 1200/8, I'm sure Canon's sales forecasts took it into account. Quite likely that's one reason for the high prices, to allow ROI even with low unit sales. I don't have to go out on a limb to suggest that Canon knows more about forecasting sales of 800mm lenses than someone who happens to use one and post their opinions on a rumors forum.
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Largely because of the physical weight, more modern material science, IS & USM.
A lot has changed between 1999 & 2008.
To people like me its the difference between leaving it at home or bring it around with me.
Generally this is not always the case. ;-)
Z 800/6.3 is that talked about because its priced like a less than 2.6kg lens. It's very cheap relative to its use case.
As I travel by plane with a EF800/5.6 I keep in mind the 4.5kg of that lens When I saw the 2.385kg weight & $6.5k price point I knew it will be wildlly popular even when it's 1/3rd slower.
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You're reading too much into what I said and you're looking for offense when none is intended.
If ever you decide to buy any of the 800mm lenses feeel free to share some photos from it.
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You're the one bringing up "market position" repeatedly. It's a specious argument with relevance only in your own head.You're reading too much into what I said and you're looking for offense when none is intended.
If ever you decide to buy any of the 800mm lenses feeel free to share some photos from it.
Personally, I have no intention of buying an 800mm lens from Nikon or Canon. Not Nikon because I don't want to run two systems, and for the other genres I shoot Canon's offerings are differentiating (e.g. TS-E 17, MP-E 65). Not Canon because I have a 600/4, and with a 1.4x TC that becomes an 840mm f/5.6 (which is lighter than your 800/5.6 with a longer FL and the same f/number).
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Haven't looked at Nikon, or any other brand for that matter for the past 30+ years. When I was starting out I was weighing either a used Nikon F3, or Canon T90. Got the Canon.
Prices are ridiculous, so are some lens choices. This Nikon lens grabbing my attention and making wonder things. May not switch as I am so heavily invested.... but who knows.
Prices are ridiculous, so are some lens choices. This Nikon lens grabbing my attention and making wonder things. May not switch as I am so heavily invested.... but who knows.
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Canon will charge for the lens what they think people will pay for it, some of that will be based on how much it cost them to develop and make it.
Nikon has a newer design that's cheaper. Kudos to Nikon. If Nikon can repeat that with their other telephoto lenses then Canon's got a real problem to address and it won't be a quick about-ship either.
But now that you've told us that you have a Canon 800/5.6 it is abundantly clear why you're trying to denigrate the Nikon lens.
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