Odds & Ends - Mirrorless [CR1]

[Canon Rumors]

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<strong>A bit more mirrorless


</strong>There’s a general consensus that a mirrorless entry from Canon is coming in the month of June. I was told this week to expect a “well specced” mirrorless camera and a “couple” of lenses. Again, no mention of the mount.</p>
<p>Another mentioned not to expect a “pro” level mirrorless right away, but there are plans for a higher end model or two in the coming 12 months.</p>
<p>There will apparently be two “significant” announcements in June, we still suspect it will be the Rebel and a couple of lenses.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[VASH1291]

Can't wait to see what Canon brings to the table ;D

 

[Neeneko]

Can't wait to see what Canon brings to the table ;D

Agreed, though I am guessing it is too much to hope that they put a new and interesting sensor in it. I have a bad feeling it is going to be little more then a Rebel without a Mirror, which while it will likely make a reasonable entry will be unlikely to wow anyone, and unless its EF support is much better then the converters for other mirrorless bodies it will likely not be able to take advantage vendor lock in like their DSLRs.

 

[SpareImp]

I’m also looking forward to seeing what Canon is bringing to the table. I hope it has a built-in viewfinder. That alone will make it appealing to me, even if the specs are pretty much the same as other mirrorless cameras.

I previously had a Sony Nex C3, but it just didn’t feel right. Ended up selling it and buying a Fujifilm X10, which is great even though it’s a compact camera. Obviously, it doesn’t take any lenses at all, so an EF-compatible mount would be very interesting. Let’s hope it’s an option, at least.

 

[AvTvM]

I expect a totally mediocre and underwhelming "G1X with a lens mount" ...
same unnecessary 4:3 mini-sensor plus a mediocre EVF and 3 utterly unexciting, dark but still not very compact kit-lenses along the lines of:
- 18-55/f3.5-5.6 equivalent kit-lens
- 55-250/f4.5-5.6 equivalent tele-zoom
- plus something like a boring 40/2.8 pancake macro
BUT certainly prices will be at least 50% higher than for a corresponding Rebel and EF-S lenses.
It is so very predictable and irksome.

 

[bkxmnr]

I expect a totally mediocre and underwhelming "G1X with a lens mount" ...
same unnecessary 4:3 mini-sensor plus a mediocre EVF and 3 utterly unexciting, dark but still not very compact kit-lenses along the lines of:
- 18-55/f3.5-5.6 equivalent kit-lens
- 55-250/f4.5-5.6 equivalent tele-zoom
- plus something like a boring 40/2.8 pancake macro
BUT certainly prices will be at least 50% higher than for a corresponding Rebel and EF-S lenses.
It is so very predictable and irksome.

Those would be my exact feelings. Awesome handle BTW.

 

[Rocky]

It will be interesting to see what Canon can do (or will do) with the mirrorless. There are so many suggestion (read it s demand) in this site: smaller size, reasonable priced, BIG sensor, small zooms etc. Unfortunately, they mutually exclusive. I am interested in seeing how fast is the AF or does it comes with MF and aview finder ( like the M9)?

 

[c.d.embrey]

No Pro ??? No Buy !!! It looks like Canon is going to disappointing me again. Meh!!!

The Crystal Ball is saying "I can see an Olympus OM-D E-M5, plus a 12mm f/2.0, 45mm f/1.8 and a 75mm f/1.8 in your future."

 

[Daniel Flather]

There will apparently be two “significant” announcements in June, we still suspect it will be the Rebel and a couple of lenses.

Will they be a delay and another delay?

 

[Ricku]

It is full frame or go home.

Comeon now Canon, you can't let Leica be the only brand with a full frame mirrorless.

 

[drjlo]

I expect a totally mediocre and underwhelming "G1X with a lens mount" ...
same unnecessary 4:3 mini-sensor plus a mediocre EVF and 3 utterly unexciting, dark but still not very compact kit-lenses along the lines of:
- 18-55/f3.5-5.6 equivalent kit-lens
- 55-250/f4.5-5.6 equivalent tele-zoom
- plus something like a boring 40/2.8 pancake macro
BUT certainly prices will be at least 50% higher than for a corresponding Rebel and EF-S lenses.
It is so very predictable and irksome.

I'm afraid you are probably correct given the recent Canon moves.

 

[Daniel Flather]

Significant announcement #1 - New mirrorless camera
Significant announcement #2 - Shipping date of 1DX for retail customers Another Delay for 1Dx

Fixed.

 

[dickgrafixstop]

A rebel without a prism? A G1X with a lens mount? Whatever it is, it will be a good indication of Canon's direction.
Will it play it safe and offer some boring, underfunctioned, overpriced m4/3 competitor with a slightly larger sensor or will it take up the gauntlet thrown down by Fuji with it's X Pro 1 and come up with a stunning high quality
image machine? My guess is some soccer mom's purse candy with video in a variety of colors and lousy lenses.

 

[AvTvM]

It will be interesting to see what Canon can do (or will do) with the mirrorless. There are so many suggestion (read it s demand) in this site: smaller size, reasonable priced, BIG sensor, small zooms etc. Unfortunately, they mutually exclusive. I am interested in seeing how fast is the AF or does it comes with MF and aview finder ( like the M9)?

The specs are not mutually exclusive:

1. SIZE - no problem
"FF" (36x24mm) can be packaged in a very compact and very high-quality camera without any problem.
example: 124.5 x 77.5 x 32 millimeters, sturdy metal body, weight only 13.405 oz./380.1g with batteries
http://www.cameraquest.com/cle.htm

2. LENS SIZE - no big problem
just look at M-mount lenses not only from Leica but also from Voigtlander and other manufacturers. Even a decent f/4 kit-zoom could be made very compact and with decent optical quality. As a matter of fact, no need to develop a new proprietary mount. Just take the patent-expired Leica M-mount and electrify it, using Canon pin layout and mountr-lens protocol. It would be backwards compatible with M-mount lenses w/ manual focusing.

3. FAST and 100% ACCURATE AF - no problem
Just take the approach of the Nikon 1 hybrid AF sized to FF. Take the 5D 3 sensor, take 10.000 sensels out of it for in-sensor-plane Phase-Detect AF for ultrafast stage 1 "pre-focusing" and then hand over for stage 2: DIGIC 5+ powered, fast and 100% accurate Contrast AF. All back-/frontfocus issues with any lens will disappear. No need for microfocus-adjustment.

4. VIEWFINDER - no big problem
Take the Fuji X1-Pro approach and make it REALLY RIGHT. Take the best available 3 Megapixel OLED plus parallax-corrected optical viewfinder. Users decide, whether they want to use optical, electronic or combination in a specific situation.

5. PRICE - no problem
same sensor, DIGIC, electronics and many other components from 5D 3 but minus the entire mirrorbox assembly (demanding very minute alignment = labor intensive) and minus prism. Therefore price should be somehat less, lets say 3 grand USD / Euro for starters.

Now, if I can think of this camera, Canon should be able to figure it out too and build it.

 

[Dylan777]

It is full frame or go home.
Comeon now Canon, you can't let Leica be the only brand with a full frame mirrorless.

+1...mirrorless FF & works with current "L" lenses, I'll take one

 

[Daniel Flather]

It is full frame or go home.
Comeon now Canon, you can't let Leica be the only brand with a full frame mirrorless.

+1...mirrorless FF & works with current "L" lenses, I'll take one

+2

 

[Rocky]

It will be interesting to see what Canon can do (or will do) with the mirrorless. There are so many suggestion (read it s demand) in this site: smaller size, reasonable priced, BIG sensor, small zooms etc. Unfortunately, they mutually exclusive. I am interested in seeing how fast is the AF or does it comes with MF and aview finder ( like the M9)?

The specs are not mutually exclusive:

1. SIZE - no problem
"FF" (36x24mm) can be packaged in a very compact and very high-quality camera without any problem.
example: 124.5 x 77.5 x 32 millimeters, sturdy metal body, weight only 13.405 oz./380.1g with batteries
http://www.cameraquest.com/cle.htm

2. LENS SIZE - no big problem
just look at M-mount lenses not only from Leica but also from Voigtlander and other manufacturers. Even a decent f/4 kit-zoom could be made very compact and with decent optical quality. As a matter of fact, no need to develop a new proprietary mount. Just take the patent-expired Leica M-mount and electrify it, using Canon pin layout and mountr-lens protocol. It would be backwards compatible with M-mount lenses w/ manual focusing.

3. FAST and 100% ACCURATE AF - no problem
Just take the approach of the Nikon 1 hybrid AF sized to FF. Take the 5D 3 sensor, take 10.000 sensels out of it for in-sensor-plane Phase-Detect AF for ultrafast stage 1 "pre-focusing" and then hand over for stage 2: DIGIC 5+ powered, fast and 100% accurate Contrast AF. All back-/frontfocus issues with any lens will disappear. No need for microfocus-adjustment.

4. VIEWFINDER - no big problem
Take the Fuji X1-Pro approach and make it REALLY RIGHT. Take the best available 3 Megapixel OLED plus parallax-corrected optical viewfinder. Users decide, whether they want to use optical, electronic or combination in a specific situation.

5. PRICE - no problem
same sensor, DIGIC, electronics and many other components from 5D 3 but minus the entire mirrorbox assembly (demanding very minute alignment = labor intensive) and minus prism. Therefore price should be somehat less, lets say 3 grand USD / Euro for starters.

Now, if I can think of this camera, Canon should be able to figure it out too and build it.

Minolta is a fully mechanical camera. there is not a single motor in it. Digital camera needs multiple motor and a relative large battery. just look at the size of NEX7 or the Fuji Por 1. They are already bigger than the CLE and they are only APS-C sensor. You have also suggested to use the components from 5D. This will not be a small camera.
Leica lenses are"smaller" due to there is NO AF and NO electronically controlled apertute. Look at the 4/3 lenses, they are even bigger than the Leica lenses.
Nikon holds the patent right on their on sensor AF sensor. Do you think that they will allow any body to use it??
The only FF "mirrorless"exists is LEICA M9. It is a $9K camera. Let us look back into history. In the late 60's the price of the best Canon Range finder camera is about 80% of Leica M3. So if we strap the curve, A Canon M9 comparable mirror from Canon will be about $6k to $7K. Will you buy a 1D-X or the Mirrorless. Also Leica may be holding the offset micro lenses pattern also. Event some Leica lense cannot be used in M9 due to incident angle concern. If the FF mirrorless can be built so easily and cheaply,whay nobody is doing it???
I am not saying a good mirrorless cannot be done. It just have to be compromised and canot satisfy every body.

 

[c.d.embrey]

... Leica lenses are"smaller" due to there is NO AF and NO electronically controlled apertute. Look at the 4/3 lenses, they are even bigger than the Leica lenses.

Reality has no place on a foto-forum

The only FF "mirrorless"exists is LEICA M9. It is a $9K camera. Let us look back into history. In the late 60's the price of the best Canon Range finder camera is about 80% of Leica M3. So if we strap the curve, A Canon M9 comparable mirror from Canon will be about $6k to $7K. Will you buy a 1D-X or the Mirrorless.

The way Canon has been pricing things lately, I'd expect 90% to be closer to the truth

If the FF mirrorless can be built so easily and cheaply,whay nobody is doing it???

Sony fans are clamoring for a Full Frame NEX 9 too. But there doesn't seem to be a glimmer of hope there either.

 

[J]

The new Rebel should be in the EOS IX form factor. It would be 40mm shorter and 20mm thinner than the Rebel T3, a significant size savings.

It would still be an SLR, would still have the EF mount, but the introduction of a 40mm pancake would make a tad more sense...

 

[maxxevv]

I won't be too surprised if they came out with something like this: Canon A35 Datelux

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/camera/film/data/1976-1985/1977_a35lux.html?lang=us&categ=crn&page=1976-1985&p=1

Its "FF" film and coincidentally had a 40mm f/2.8 fixed lens. (should be very similar to the pancake 40mm to be rolled out ?? ) ...