Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

[Dylan777]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Carry 1 or 2 extra batteries not going kill you in term of weight neuro.

Not worried about the weight - worried about how many hours I wouldn't be able to use the complex $2300 camera because it was tied up doing the job of a simple, cheap battery charger.

With all respects neuro, you should test drive a7 before we are getting into long discussion here.

And, looking at your gear list, I suspect you would find the funds to buy a charger and an extra battery

Yes indeed ;D

My recent purchase 300mm drained my photography account really good.

 

[LightandMotion]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I read at http://www.sensorgen.info that the same sensor in Nikon D800 has two stops advantage regarding dynamic range compared with 1dx and at 100iso, are you saying that your Sony camera performing differently than the Nikon D800 when it comes to dynamic range?

Never used a D800E. Just a real world comparison side by side on a landscape shoot.

 

[eml58]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Sony A7R Cons:
- Battery charger not included. The battery charges from either an AC or USB source, in camera. Separate charger is $79.

On top of crap battery life, you have to plug the camera in to charge the battery…Sony, WTF?!?

Yes, that threw me as well, I spent 10 Minutes ripping the Box apart thinking "no way", but seems Sony found a way.

The other thing that threw me initially was no software out of the Box to handle Files from the Camera, your on your own and that truly is "WTF".

If you shoot RAW your choices are to download some hopeless Sony thing called "SonyHomeWhatever" which only allows you to view your files, crop and make very minor adjustments, but doesn't allow you to save the file in any other format or method, completely useless (This was my experience, there may be software out there that I wasn't able to locate).

Initially LR didn't handle the Sony RAW file from the a7r either, but the new Adobe 5.3 Release fixes that.

I do like the Camera, I feel it has potential in my own case as a back up to the 1Dx, perhaps a replacement for the 5DMK III in some scenarios, But Sony have sort of crippled the release by it's poor management of support gear, Lenses in particular.

In fact I need to clarify my thought re the 1Dx, I don't see the a7r ever being a back up to the 1Dx, what I meant to say was I see the a7r as a reasonable system camera (with some Lenses) to do the things I currently want to do with the 5DMK III, in particular the form factor & the 36MP sensor hopes. My biggest current "don't like" would be the EVF, never used one before and not so keen at this point, time might rectify that, we'll see.

But I'm happier with the a7r than I ever was with the Leica M9, except the Leica Lenses of course, but with the a7r + Zeiss Glass you have best of both worlds, Beautiful Glass that Auto Focusses on a 36MP Sensor, worth giving a try I think & hopefully Canon some where down the track go one better now that Sony have to some degree shown it can be done.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I still don't understand who these full frame mirorrless cameras are aimed at, aside from a hobbyist with a lot of money to burn.

-Average consumer, it is too expensive
-Camera-oriented gadget freak, would probably rather have a cameraphone like the Lumia 1020
-Compact camera fan, the zoom lenses are too big to truck around - all these pics don't look much smaller than a 6D w/ lens.
-Professional, would rather have a real DSLR with viewfinder through lens, more physical buttons, big lens selection, bigger body to grip

So what is left for this camera? Hobbyists with a lot of cash? I guess that is the market they are going for.

I agree for now, although:

eventually the EVFs could be better than optical VFs, it could help get one to higher fps for less money (mirror assembly is one the parts that has some real cost to it), with the space savings maybe you fit 1 series battery power into a nice 5D-sized body, once dual-pixel AF is fully perfected maybe the AF would be just as good

as for the A7R and canon users:
I think it's all about the sensor (awesome) and the mount (takes Canon lenses with an adapter) and the mirrorless aspect (other than it helped insure Canon lenses would work) is an afterthought at best and a negative at worst.

 

[Traktor]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

LightandMotion,

Thanks for the review. Is the autofocus with Canon EF and metabones at least accurate?

 

[Zv]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Sorry but am with Neuro on this one regarding battery life.

300 shots or less?? That is absolutely useless as an all day walkaround camera. Extra batteries? Forget that. Based on that performance I would need to buy at least 4 additional batteries just to get a decent number of shots. (Not to mention the additional cost of buying some chargers). I recently went to Kyoto and took about 800 shots with just one battery and it still had juice at the end of the day.

And battery grip negates the size and portability advantage. I like my cameras ungripped.

I don't think this is replacing DSLRs just yet.

 

[LightandMotion]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

LightandMotion,

Thanks for the review. Is the autofocus with Canon EF and metabones at least accurate?

With the 16-35 II, 50 f1.2 and 100 f2.8IS It is accurate once it locks on. There is also AF microadjustment if needed.

 

[Dylan777]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Sorry but am with Neuro on this one regarding battery life.

300 shots or less?? That is absolutely useless as an all day walkaround camera. Extra batteries? Forget that. Based on that performance I would need to buy at least 4 additional batteries just to get a decent number of shots. (Not to mention the additional cost of buying some chargers). I recently went to Kyoto and took about 800 shots with just one battery and it still had juice at the end of the day.

And battery grip negates the size and portability advantage. I like my cameras ungripped.

I don't think this is replacing DSLRs just yet.

Tracking moving subject, yes, no where near DSLR. Everything else, I wouldn't say that. IQ could easily out perform any Canon current DSLR.

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Sorry but am with Neuro on this one regarding battery life.

300 shots or less?? That is absolutely useless as an all day walkaround camera. Extra batteries? Forget that. Based on that performance I would need to buy at least 4 additional batteries just to get a decent number of shots. (Not to mention the additional cost of buying some chargers). I recently went to Kyoto and took about 800 shots with just one battery and it still had juice at the end of the day.

And battery grip negates the size and portability advantage. I like my cameras ungripped.

I don't think this is replacing DSLRs just yet.

Unfortunately, yes, the battery life sucks cow n!pples , it gives only 270 shots per charge (I'm prepared to count it as only 250 shots per charge) ... that's why I ordered 3 additional batteries for my upcoming vacation ... even then I'll get only 1000 or so shots (still, its too less for all day sightseeing ... you wouldn't want to have it as the only camera) ... but I made the plunge and ordered the a7+28-70 (from B&H) and HVL-F43M flash (from Digitalrev -- this flash is cheaper in Hongkong than USA) .. another draw back at the moment is, the battery has to charged while it is in camera ... but they are releasing a charger soon (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&A=details&Q=&sku=1008167&is=REG) for US$ 50 ... but that should have been included with the purchase in the first place

To me, these 2 draw backs suggest that Sony rushed into it, to cash in on the very lucrative Christmas/New Year period. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets replaced within a year.

I'll use it during the vacation, if I don't like it I'm prepared to sell it off ... I'll consider it a 3 week rental Besides, I still have my 5D MK III and the D610 to take care situations the a7 cannot handle.

 

[traveller]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Whilst battery life is a bit of an Achilles Heel for any mirrorless camera (especially those with battery draining EVFs), anyone who's shooting 1200 shots per day probably needs a DSLR anyway.

I quite like the idea of a mirrorless full frame camera for landscapes, not just because the camera is smaller, but because wide angle lenses can be made so much smaller as well. The best thing about these Sonys is that you can try them out by just buying the camera and adaptor for your existing lenses.

I have a friend who is desperately looking for an upgrade to his 1Ds MkIII and doesn't do enough action work to make a 1D X an attractive option. He was seriously talking about the D800, but didn't want to shell out for new lenses. I suggested he take a look at the A7R with an EF-FE mount adaptor to start with. He wasn't keen because he's used to the 1D series body (he regards my 5D MkIII as too small -he's not much over 5' tall BTW!). I pointed out that you wouldn't want to use it all day at an event with a 70-200 on, but (as LightandMotion ably demonstrates in his post) who cares when you've got it on a tripod?

 

[spinworkxroy]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

LightandMotion,

Thanks for the review. Is the autofocus with Canon EF and metabones at least accurate?

With the 16-35 II, 50 f1.2 and 100 f2.8IS It is accurate once it locks on. There is also AF microadjustment if needed.

I had some issues with the Canon primes actually.
They work yes, but lock on is so slow...feels like using an EOS M.
And i do get it failing to focus about 10% of the time.
So for me, i wouldn't want to use Canon glass on this camera with a metabones unless you're not in any hurry. You're better off using MF lenses which is ok to take your time..or native FE glass or with the Sony adapter for A mount glass..that one is super fast..

 

[Zv]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Sorry but am with Neuro on this one regarding battery life.

300 shots or less?? That is absolutely useless as an all day walkaround camera. Extra batteries? Forget that. Based on that performance I would need to buy at least 4 additional batteries just to get a decent number of shots. (Not to mention the additional cost of buying some chargers). I recently went to Kyoto and took about 800 shots with just one battery and it still had juice at the end of the day.

And battery grip negates the size and portability advantage. I like my cameras ungripped.

I don't think this is replacing DSLRs just yet.

Unfortunately, yes, the battery life sucks cow n!pples , it gives only 270 shots per charge (I'm prepared to count it as only 250 shots per charge) ... that's why I ordered 3 additional batteries for my upcoming vacation ... even then I'll get only 1000 or so shots (still, its too less for all day sightseeing ... you wouldn't want to have it as the only camera) ... but I made the plunge and ordered the a7+28-70 (from B&H) and HVL-F43M flash (from Digitalrev -- this flash is cheaper in Hongkong than USA) .. another draw back at the moment is, the battery has to charged while it is in camera ... but they are releasing a charger soon (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&A=details&Q=&sku=1008167&is=REG) for US$ 50 ... but that should have been included with the purchase in the first place

To me, these 2 draw backs suggest that Sony rushed into it, to cash in on the very lucrative Christmas/New Year period. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets replaced within a year.

I'll use it during the vacation, if I don't like it I'm prepared to sell it off ... I'll consider it a 3 week rental Besides, I still have my 5D MK III and the D610 to take care situations the a7 cannot handle.

I think the A7 would be awesome as a back up or second body, for sure. I was just ranting at the notion of it being the one and only solution to our photographic needs. Dunno, where I picked up that vibe?? Was it on this thread or just in my head!! Haha am losin it! Sorry!

I hope you have a wonderful vacation and take lots of amazing photos with your new gear!

 

[Rienzphotoz]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Sorry but am with Neuro on this one regarding battery life.

300 shots or less?? That is absolutely useless as an all day walkaround camera. Extra batteries? Forget that. Based on that performance I would need to buy at least 4 additional batteries just to get a decent number of shots. (Not to mention the additional cost of buying some chargers). I recently went to Kyoto and took about 800 shots with just one battery and it still had juice at the end of the day.

And battery grip negates the size and portability advantage. I like my cameras ungripped.

I don't think this is replacing DSLRs just yet.

Unfortunately, yes, the battery life sucks cow n!pples , it gives only 270 shots per charge (I'm prepared to count it as only 250 shots per charge) ... that's why I ordered 3 additional batteries for my upcoming vacation ... even then I'll get only 1000 or so shots (still, its too less for all day sightseeing ... you wouldn't want to have it as the only camera) ... but I made the plunge and ordered the a7+28-70 (from B&H) and HVL-F43M flash (from Digitalrev -- this flash is cheaper in Hongkong than USA) .. another draw back at the moment is, the battery has to charged while it is in camera ... but they are releasing a charger soon (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&A=details&Q=&sku=1008167&is=REG) for US$ 50 ... but that should have been included with the purchase in the first place

To me, these 2 draw backs suggest that Sony rushed into it, to cash in on the very lucrative Christmas/New Year period. I wouldn't be surprised if it gets replaced within a year.

I'll use it during the vacation, if I don't like it I'm prepared to sell it off ... I'll consider it a 3 week rental Besides, I still have my 5D MK III and the D610 to take care situations the a7 cannot handle.

I think the A7 would be awesome as a back up or second body, for sure. I was just ranting at the notion of it being the one and only solution to our photographic needs. Dunno, where I picked up that vibe?? Was it on this thread or just in my head!! Haha am losin it! Sorry!

I hope you have a wonderful vacation and take lots of amazing photos with your new gear!

;D ;D ;D ... no issues, I didn't think you were ranting ... what you said about a7 is absolutely dead on!
Thanks for the good wishes.

 

[sanj]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I believe that if one a person is taking more than 300 photos on a vacation while walking around is being trigger happy.
Does one really see 300 great images during a single day???? Really!
Such a person would need to carry 8+ rolls of 36 exp film in the old days. Wow!

I think the A7's are superb for the discerning photographer who wants to travel light.

 

[Zv]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I believe that if one a person is taking more than 300 photos on a vacation while walking around is being trigger happy.
Does one really see 300 great images during a single day???? Really!
Such a person would need to carry 8+ rolls of 36 exp film in the old days. Wow!

I think the A7's are superb for the discerning photographer who wants to travel light.

I don't see 300 great images but it might take say 15 to 20 shots to find the angle, POV and framing that creates a great shot. I want to find that perfect shot, nail the focus and exposure and then? I Experiment!!

So maybe in one day I only got 10 or 20 good shots, but at least one will be a keeper for sure!!

I also keep the duds until I get home to help learn what went wrong and improve next time.

But is there a reason NOT to take a lot of pictures? Am I doing something horribly wrong?? I shoot a lot of frames because it's free and I learn something each time I press the shutter.

That said I do find myself just placing the viewfinder to my eye and not taking a picture more often. What's that called btw? A dry shot? I also try an evaluate the importance of the shot. (Is this a cat worth taking a picture of or is it like ever other cat??).

Btw - I don't take 1000 pictures of cats. Heaven have mercy if I did!!

 

[GmwDarkroom]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I believe that if one a person is taking more than 300 photos on a vacation while walking around is being trigger happy.
Does one really see 300 great images during a single day???? Really!

300 great images? Probably not. However depending on your subject matter, you may need to take that many to get the quantity of keepers you want. Easily, if the subject isn't static. If I were doing street or nature photography on vacation, I could easily -- and have -- find places I'd take far more than that in a day.

Such a person would need to carry 8+ rolls of 36 exp film in the old days. Wow!

Indeed. I shot much differently in those days. I carefully waited for what I thought was the perfect shot. I held back in anticipation. I lost many shots I wish I'd gotten, too. I'd say the fact that we don't need a raft of film rolls anymore is one of the greatest freedoms to photography we could ever wish for.

I think the A7's are superb for the discerning photographer who wants to travel light.

I completely agree, but it has weaknesses. Battery life being one of them. Worse so if your vacation doesn't return you to a power socket every night.

For me, it's an interesting step away from traditional mirror SLR technology which has much promise. Combined with Canon glass and better performance, it'll be phenomenal. Just like the first DSLRs.

 

[J.R.]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I believe that if one a person is taking more than 300 photos on a vacation while walking around is being trigger happy.

Not really when on a vacation with kids. I recently shot over 300 while my kids were having a great time at the beach. Maybe if you are travelling alone one would shoot less.

In the net result probably I didn't have 300 great shots but I got a few very good ones, some of which are framed and put in my living room.

I don't care how many I shoot, so long as I get some shots that I want. Landscapes... Yes I plan for it and get them right in a few attempts.

 

[tomscott]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I would agree about the shot number, you need to slow down compose and think about what your shooting. Thats the problem with modern cameras snap happy mediocre shots. Love taking out my Bronica 645 every once and a while and slowing down and being constrained by the 15-16 shots per film.

But if your talking about a weeks vacation it would be a pain in the a*se to have to be constantly charging the thing.

I recently went to have a look at one, being a 5DMKIII shooter but also have a Sony NEX5N which I like to shoot with when out and about. I was actually surprised at how big it was in comparison and felt well… might as well take the DSLR, I still prefer the OVF and the AF system of the 5D.

I know were talking about huge advances and a huge sensor but what I'm used to with a mirrorless camera I still wouldn't call it small, its still a similar form factor factor, just a little smaller. Yes is aimed at the higher end, but I still dont think its the answer. Like putting a 911 engine in a VW bus...

 

[sanj]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

I see your points.
It would be great to have better battery life always. Of course. Be it our cell or camera.
But 300 does not sound that horrible to me if I were on vacation.

300 seems a decent enough compromise given the fact that I get super IQ in a smaller/lighter package. If the charger is not too heavy, it could stay in my pocket to add juice while having coffee or lunch.

Not arguing, but thinking aloud that 300 should be enough with planning for a smaller package.

 

[J.R.]

Re: Off Brand: Sony Announces the A7 & A7R Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras

Not arguing, but thinking aloud that 300 should be enough with planning for a smaller package.

Sure, depending what and how you shoot. However, IMHO, more buyers than not will buy the A7/A7R and end up shooting zero. I suspect it will be bought by wealthy hobbyists, most of whom don't shoot much anyway.