OMG! Dpreview reviewed the 5DS/5DSR - Do you have to sell it?

[ahsanford]

At least they're still honest about the cons of the A7RII:

Agree.

In the end, 5DS/R vs. A7R II is really a referendum on what you value in a camera. If all you care about is IQ, I imagine you either already own an A7R II or are contemplating it.

But most of us want other stuff. You know: solid build quality, lenses, a hammerlock reliable AF system, great service, excellent ergonomics/handling, and menus that don't make you want to kill someone with a hammer.

Sooner or later, though, Sony will eventually get to the other stuff and their value proposition will improve to the point where more folks will consider them.

- A

 

[Rupp1]

Sooner or later, though, Sony will eventually get to the other stuff and their value proposition will improve to the point where more folks will consider them.

- A

That would be great, but I'll believe it when I see it. Sony has a long history of introducing brilliant products but then failing to support them. Couple this with their market. The lower end is being challenged by people with cell phones. The upper end is still dominated by long time Canon and Nikon users with huge investments in gear and glass. Sony will need a much larger user base to make developing system gear (although their lenses are coming along), and providing service which is as good as normal Canon, let alone CPS. Admission: I could be totally wrong about the size or composition of the camera market. I also think we are in the middle of a paradigm shift (love that expression), which could change all cameras as we know them (which could also support a theory that knowing this, Canon will try to milk existing customers for every dime they can before their cameras are obsolete).

 

[jeffa4444]

In truth every camera has shortcomings but in truth also we have differences of opinion of what they may be.
I bought the 5DS knowing I would definately be keeping my 6D, I wanted the extra resolution and that was my primary reason for purchase along with the knowledge Canon had taken measures to mitigate vibration. Im less likely to use focus tracking and a host of other features the camera offers I dont need them for Landscape or Film Noir studio shots with a couple of flashes with flash benders etc.
The 5DS images have given me the ability if needed to crop more severely and shooting at ISO 100-200 mainly Im not concerned about the cap on high end ISO, I would be with the 6D.

My dislike is purely the lack of wi-fi this seems bizare in 2015 the iPad & iPhone have become great tools to remotely fire in liveview the camera and preview images in more detail yet the reviewer never mentions this.

 

[Larsskv]

At least they're still honest about the cons of the A7RII:

-No direct AF point control
-Lock-on AF still remains unpredictable and often unreliable
-Camera focuses stopped down in AF-C, often crippling AF at small apertures or in low light
-Eye-AF and Lock-on AF not available with 3rd party lenses, nor in video
-Camera drops to 12-bit mode in continuous shooting, dropping dynamic range
-Exposure parameters frozen while AF-C is engaged
-Viewfinder eye sensor is over-sensitive
-Buttons and dials are either too small, recessed, or mushy
-Inane interactions between menu items lead to poor experience and too many greyed out items
-Buffer is sluggish to clear, making quick image review and focus check difficult
-Video never shows low-light advantage of full frame sensor
-4K shot continuously for 30-45 min can cause overheating
-No in-camera Raw conversion
-No touchscreen
-Very limited battery life

Compared to the 5DS:

-Raw dynamic range limited compared to peers
-Base ISO images can be noisier than the best of the competition
-Low light performance limited compared to peers
-ISO cap of 12,800 (6400 for Auto ISO) feels arbitrary and limiting
-JPEGs not as sharp or detailed as some competitors
-AF subject tracking lags most peers
-Mirror and shutter vibrations require workarounds at certain shutter speeds and focal lengths
-No spot-metering linked to AF point
-Limited video features: no zebra, 1080/60p, flat gamma profile, or peaking options
-Slow AF in Live View and video

One of these products is obviously much more mature than the other.

The question is, how the h*** are they able to rate the A7RII higher than the 5DS, with those con lists. The A7RII shortcomings are way, way more negative to me than those mentioned for the 5DS (that arent complete BS - AF performance and shutter vibrations)

 

[Loswr]

The question is, how the h*** are they able to rate the A7RII higher than the 5DS, with those con lists. The A7RII shortcomings are way, way more negative to me than those mentioned for the 5DS (that arent complete BS - AF performance and shutter vibrations)

Clearly you're behind the times. In case no one has bothered to educate you, modern photography is all about low ISO DR and extreme shadow pushing capability. DxO gets it. DPR gets it. What's wrong with you, bub??

 

[Tinky]

5DS/5DSR owners...

do you like your camera?

does it do the job you expected and wanted?

No problem.

Potential 5DS/5DSR owners - It's not really designed for sports, so bear that in mind.

Job done.

 

[msm]

At least they're still honest about the cons of the A7RII:

-No direct AF point control
-Lock-on AF still remains unpredictable and often unreliable
-Camera focuses stopped down in AF-C, often crippling AF at small apertures or in low light
-Eye-AF and Lock-on AF not available with 3rd party lenses, nor in video
-Camera drops to 12-bit mode in continuous shooting, dropping dynamic range
-Exposure parameters frozen while AF-C is engaged
-Viewfinder eye sensor is over-sensitive
-Buttons and dials are either too small, recessed, or mushy
-Inane interactions between menu items lead to poor experience and too many greyed out items
-Buffer is sluggish to clear, making quick image review and focus check difficult
-Video never shows low-light advantage of full frame sensor
-4K shot continuously for 30-45 min can cause overheating
-No in-camera Raw conversion
-No touchscreen
-Very limited battery life

Compared to the 5DS:

-Raw dynamic range limited compared to peers
-Base ISO images can be noisier than the best of the competition
-Low light performance limited compared to peers
-ISO cap of 12,800 (6400 for Auto ISO) feels arbitrary and limiting
-JPEGs not as sharp or detailed as some competitors
-AF subject tracking lags most peers
-Mirror and shutter vibrations require workarounds at certain shutter speeds and focal lengths
-No spot-metering linked to AF point
-Limited video features: no zebra, 1080/60p, flat gamma profile, or peaking options
-Slow AF in Live View and video

One of these products is obviously much more mature than the other.

The question is, how the h*** are they able to rate the A7RII higher than the 5DS, with those con lists. The A7RII shortcomings are way, way more negative to me than those mentioned for the 5DS (that arent complete BS - AF performance and shutter vibrations)

If you want to understand that try to read the review instead of just cutting out a con list without context. The funny thing is, some of the main A7R cons in that list are actually pros when you compare to the 5DS:

- Lock on af unreliable? Their vidoes show it beats the crap out of the useless ITR garbage from Canon which is only there to add a bullet point on the spec sheet. 150k pixel RGB/IR metering sensor and still they can't do it.
- How's 5DS eye af with 3rd party lenses? Oh wait it doesn't exist. How well does Canon perform with leica M or Nikon lenses btw?
- Camera drops to 12bits during continous shooting loosing dynamic range? Oh wait it is still a stop better than 5DS at both high and low ISO.
- Video never shows low light advantage of full frame sensor? Still beats the 5DS video in low light.
- 4k overheating? How long does the 5DS record 4k?

And some stuff belong in the 5DS list which isn't there. Like all the AFMA bullshit and inconsistant AF points for instance and lack of ability to have full control over exposure through the viewfinder (hello chimping). I guess people have grown so accustomed to the cons of DSLRs they forget about it.

I think DPR has done an excellent job at their reviews. They cover all aspects of the shooting experience and demonstrates the cameras abilities nicely through videos and images.

 

[Larsskv]

At least they're still honest about the cons of the A7RII:

-No direct AF point control
-Lock-on AF still remains unpredictable and often unreliable
-Camera focuses stopped down in AF-C, often crippling AF at small apertures or in low light
-Eye-AF and Lock-on AF not available with 3rd party lenses, nor in video
-Camera drops to 12-bit mode in continuous shooting, dropping dynamic range
-Exposure parameters frozen while AF-C is engaged
-Viewfinder eye sensor is over-sensitive
-Buttons and dials are either too small, recessed, or mushy
-Inane interactions between menu items lead to poor experience and too many greyed out items
-Buffer is sluggish to clear, making quick image review and focus check difficult
-Video never shows low-light advantage of full frame sensor
-4K shot continuously for 30-45 min can cause overheating
-No in-camera Raw conversion
-No touchscreen
-Very limited battery life

Compared to the 5DS:

-Raw dynamic range limited compared to peers
-Base ISO images can be noisier than the best of the competition
-Low light performance limited compared to peers
-ISO cap of 12,800 (6400 for Auto ISO) feels arbitrary and limiting
-JPEGs not as sharp or detailed as some competitors
-AF subject tracking lags most peers
-Mirror and shutter vibrations require workarounds at certain shutter speeds and focal lengths
-No spot-metering linked to AF point
-Limited video features: no zebra, 1080/60p, flat gamma profile, or peaking options
-Slow AF in Live View and video

One of these products is obviously much more mature than the other.

The question is, how the h*** are they able to rate the A7RII higher than the 5DS, with those con lists. The A7RII shortcomings are way, way more negative to me than those mentioned for the 5DS (that arent complete BS - AF performance and shutter vibrations)

If you want to understand that try to read the review instead of just cutting out a con list without context. The funny thing is, some of the main A7R cons in that list are actually pros when you compare to the 5DS:

- Lock on af unreliable? Their vidoes show it beats the crap out of the useless ITR garbage from Canon which is only there to add a bullet point on the spec sheet. 150k pixel RGB/IR metering sensor and still they can't do it.
- How's 5DS eye af with 3rd party lenses? Oh wait it doesn't exist. How well does Canon perform with leica M or Nikon lenses btw?
- Camera drops to 12bits during continous shooting loosing dynamic range? Oh wait it is still a stop better than 5DS at both high and low ISO.
- Video never shows low light advantage of full frame sensor? Still beats the 5DS video in low light.
- 4k overheating? How long does the 5DS record 4k?

And some stuff belong in the 5DS list which isn't there. Like all the AFMA bullS___ and inconsistant AF points for instance and lack of ability to have full control over exposure through the viewfinder (hello chimping). I guess people have grown so accustomed to the cons of DSLRs they forget about it.

I think DPR has done an excellent job at their reviews. They cover all aspects of the shooting experience and demonstrates the cameras abilities nicely through videos and images.

You don't get it. The cons with the A7RII has in common with the A7 series in general, that features are half finished and implemented before they work properly or bug free. If the camera is causing trouble or has delays while shooting, it would bug the h*** out of me. I have never had such an issue with the 6D, 7DII or 5DS. They always work without issues, and what they can do, they do well.

And come on - no direct AF point control, too small mushy buttons, buffer sluggish to clear, very limited battery life, bad menus- those things are a PAIN in everyday use. I couldnt live with that, and it is likely that it would drive me to throw the camera in a concrete wall at some point. Therefore, the scores at DPR is worth nothing to me.

As for the DPR review, I wont read it. We have way better sources for information than DPR.

 

[Loswr]

I think DPR has done an excellent job at their reviews. They cover all aspects of the shooting experience and demonstrates the cameras abilities nicely through videos and images.

Of course - when your biases coincide with those of a reviewer, it's obviously an excellent review.

 

[Sporgon]

I eventually discovered many years ago when I was a car nut, just how cars that were exciting for the magazines to review didn't always translate to those of us that had to use the thing every day.

I guess it's the same with cameras. I mean just how boring must it be to review the same old boring Canon dslr year after year compared with the exciting Sony ? The Canon looks the same as it always did, it feels the same to hold; buttons are in the same place, menus more or less the same. Shadow latitude although more than most will ever want is still behind the competition. Nothing changes. Duh ! I bet they fall asleep.

I don't read DPR anymore, but this thread prompted me to look, and I see the 7DII got a Silver Award ! ;D

 

[martti]

Some people seem to take fantastic pictures with their recognizable touch and feel with Nikon and Canon and you cannot really tell which one they are using. Then there are some people who make absolutely top class pictures with Sony and they do not want to change at any price. They have configured the menus, they have bought extra batteries and they have both sharp native Sony lenses and they are sure that anyone who needs something more is a maniac fanboy.

What should I do about this situation?
I think I'll just learn to take better pictures with my 5DIII and the lenses I got. As it seems, in most situations even the Real Pros cannot find a relevant difference in the final picture quality of the main camera brands.
This is consumerism gone mad, nothing else.

PS. I remember when people started talking about the Dynamic Range in the POTN forum. One of the glamour people was about to sell all his Canon stuff and get Nikon's DR. I hope he is happy with his choices. Couldn't care less.

 

[msm]

You don't get it. The cons with the A7RII has in common with the A7 series in general, that features are half finished and implemented before they work properly or bug free. If the camera is causing trouble or has delays while shooting, it would bug the h*** out of me. I have never had such an issue with the 6D, 7DII or 5DS. They always work without issues, and what they can do, they do well.

What half finished and not properly working features? What bugs? You have any experience with this camera at all? If there is anything that is at best half finished and not working properly it must be something like Canons IT&R.

And come on - no direct AF point control, too small mushy buttons, buffer sluggish to clear, very limited battery life, bad menus- those things are a PAIN in everyday use. I couldnt live with that, and it is likely that it would drive me to throw the camera in a concrete wall at some point. Therefore, the scores at DPR is worth nothing to me.

Fair enough. I get it. You spray and pray alot and fill the buffer and you got problems with changing batteries. I am more interested in cameras that perform well at their main task, capturing images but we all got different priorites. ;D

As for the DPR review, I wont read it. We have way better sources for information than DPR.

Like? This forum? :

 

[msm]

I think DPR has done an excellent job at their reviews. They cover all aspects of the shooting experience and demonstrates the cameras abilities nicely through videos and images.

Of course - when your biases coincide with those of a reviewer, it's obviously an excellent review.

That looks more like how you operate, not me. Their review nailed both the good and bad things about both cameras. Can you? Still haven't seen you say anything positive about Sony. So either everything is either bad with Sony or you are biased. Which one is it? :

 

[martti]

I think DPR has done an excellent job at their reviews. They cover all aspects of the shooting experience and demonstrates the cameras abilities nicely through videos and images.

Of course - when your biases coincide with those of a reviewer, it's obviously an excellent review.

That looks more like how you operate, not me. Their review nailed both the good and bad things about both cameras. Can you? Still haven't seen you say anything positive about Sony. So either everything is either bad with Sony or you are biased. Which one is it? :

Everybody else is biased, not me. I am right and being right one just cannot be biased. Look at Ken, for instance. 8)

 

[bdunbar79]

I think DPR has done an excellent job at their reviews. They cover all aspects of the shooting experience and demonstrates the cameras abilities nicely through videos and images.

Of course - when your biases coincide with those of a reviewer, it's obviously an excellent review.

That looks more like how you operate, not me. Their review nailed both the good and bad things about both cameras. Can you? Still haven't seen you say anything positive about Sony. So either everything is either bad with Sony or you are biased. Which one is it? :

No, wrong. They totally missed the AF evaluation. And since I've actually shot sports/action with all of the cameras above, I can make that claim. Have you? The 1Dx and 5Ds spank the living crap out of the A7R II tracking, especially in low light. But I guess since you haven't actually tested it yourself, you wouldn't know. So yes, neuro is right, you are totally biased and are just trying to get attention.

 

[msm]

I think DPR has done an excellent job at their reviews. They cover all aspects of the shooting experience and demonstrates the cameras abilities nicely through videos and images.

Of course - when your biases coincide with those of a reviewer, it's obviously an excellent review.

That looks more like how you operate, not me. Their review nailed both the good and bad things about both cameras. Can you? Still haven't seen you say anything positive about Sony. So either everything is either bad with Sony or you are biased. Which one is it? :

No, wrong. They totally missed the AF evaluation. And since I've actually shot sports/action with all of the cameras above, I can make that claim. Have you? The 1Dx and 5Ds spank the living crap out of the A7R II tracking, especially in low light. But I guess since you haven't actually tested it yourself, you wouldn't know. So yes, neuro is right, you are totally biased and are just trying to get attention.

By tracking the subject we mean the ability of the camera to pick the AF point to follow a subject moving around in the frame. 1DX is clearly better at tracking distance using a fixed AF point over the subject exactly as DPReview points out but when it comes to selecting AF point by itself to track a subject it is far behind Nikon and Sony:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efAQI4CbS5s

Answer honestly: how often do you let the camera track the subject when shooting sports/action?

 

[Maiaibing]

Tried to sell mine today - but already no buyers after the Dpreview came out. Guess I'm stuck with my 5DS/R for several years now. Fortunately, I rather like the experience with all its perceived/real shortcomings.

(Tried to post some samples but web site does not let me?)

 

[Larsskv]

You don't get it. The cons with the A7RII has in common with the A7 series in general, that features are half finished and implemented before they work properly or bug free. If the camera is causing trouble or has delays while shooting, it would bug the h*** out of me. I have never had such an issue with the 6D, 7DII or 5DS. They always work without issues, and what they can do, they do well.

What half finished and not properly working features? What bugs? You have any experience with this camera at all? If there is anything that is at best half finished and not working properly it must be something like Canons IT&R.

And come on - no direct AF point control, too small mushy buttons, buffer sluggish to clear, very limited battery life, bad menus- those things are a PAIN in everyday use. I couldnt live with that, and it is likely that it would drive me to throw the camera in a concrete wall at some point. Therefore, the scores at DPR is worth nothing to me.

Fair enough. I get it. You spray and pray alot and fill the buffer and you got problems with changing batteries. I am more interested in cameras that perform well at their main task, capturing images but we all got different priorites. ;D

As for the DPR review, I wont read it. We have way better sources for information than DPR.

Like? This forum? :

I have seen plenty of videos on Youtube showing that the A7RII locks up for a long time, that it gets a bug where you have to reset the camera - and when you do, all your customizations are reset. Reviewers have said that they have wanted to smash the camera up on several occasions because of such bugs.

Since you obviously do everything you can to avoid my point, I will make it clearer to you. If you prefer hitting the red light, in stead of the green, get a Sony. If you prefer laying behind grandma in 40 in the 60 zone, instead of having the road all to your self, get the Sony. If you get excited when running low on fuel, and not knowing when or if you reach the next gas station, get the Sony.

 

[Larsskv]

I think DPR has done an excellent job at their reviews. They cover all aspects of the shooting experience and demonstrates the cameras abilities nicely through videos and images.

Of course - when your biases coincide with those of a reviewer, it's obviously an excellent review.

That looks more like how you operate, not me. Their review nailed both the good and bad things about both cameras. Can you? Still haven't seen you say anything positive about Sony. So either everything is either bad with Sony or you are biased. Which one is it? :

No, wrong. They totally missed the AF evaluation. And since I've actually shot sports/action with all of the cameras above, I can make that claim. Have you? The 1Dx and 5Ds spank the living crap out of the A7R II tracking, especially in low light. But I guess since you haven't actually tested it yourself, you wouldn't know. So yes, neuro is right, you are totally biased and are just trying to get attention.

By tracking the subject we mean the ability of the camera to pick the AF point to follow a subject moving around in the frame. 1DX is clearly better at tracking distance using a fixed AF point over the subject exactly as DPReview points out but when it comes to selecting AF point by itself to track a subject it is far behind Nikon and Sony:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efAQI4CbS5s

Answer honestly: how often do you let the camera track the subject when shooting sports/action?

Ok, so you prefer the camera to choose where to focus. I prefer to be in charge of that. Having an optical viewfinder with no lag makes it easy to track a subject through the viewfinder. You should try it some time.

 

[scyrene]

What half finished and not properly working features? What bugs? You have any experience with this camera at all? If there is anything that is at best half finished and not working properly it must be something like Canons IT&R.

Fair enough. I get it. You spray and pray alot and fill the buffer and you got problems with changing batteries. I am more interested in cameras that perform well at their main task, capturing images but we all got different priorites. ;D

Are you actually saying that the Sony it perfect and the 5Ds is not capable of performing well at capturing images?? Surely both cameras have plus and minus points.